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Pronunciations

orbeaorcaorbeaorca Posts: 246
edited March 2010 in The bottom bracket
Ok, I am off to Wales in May, one aim is to attempt to climb Bwlch Y Groes, but when I explain to mates what I am doing I cant even say it so can someone tell me how to pronounce it please

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  • B-lish ye groesch

    Cheers, my attempts where way off..lol
  • Don't forget the flegm 8)

    Yes, if you've got something to say, spit it out!
  • skyd0gskyd0g Posts: 2,540
    Don't forget the flegm 8)

    ...that would be phlegm (and that's not even Welsh, though the spelling could be!) :lol:
    Cycling weakly
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    B-lish ye groesch

    that was a dreadful attempt.....

    'boolk uh groyce' is probably the closest you are going to get to an english phonetic spelling, but it's much better to hear it said than try to write it in 'anglo-speak'.....

    and to the OP - saying 'attempt to climb bwlch y groes' - you make it sound like Everest.. ;)
  • igamogamigamogam Posts: 17
    Bwlch y Groes literally means the Pass of the Cross, sounds good in French - Col de la Croix. You'd be proud of climbing something named that on the L'Etape or Marmotte...

    First of all you need to know a few 'tips'. In Welsh you say every letter and 99% of the time there is only one way of saying that letter. Most of the sounds of Welsh are used somewhere in English but English has no standard way of writing them because of the French influence thrown on top of it's Fresian/Germanic roots.

    The problem letters (I guess) for monoglot English speakers are the 'w' 'ch' 'y' and 'e'.

    'w' is always said as 'oo' like the 'w' in 'which', ' wood' 'wow' etc... So English does actually use the same letter for the same sound a lot (if not most) of the time.

    'ch' is always pronounced as the 'ch' in the Gaeilic/Scottish word 'Loch' or the German surprise sound 'Ach!'. This is a tough one because although most English speakers can say the word Loch properly for some reason they don't make seem to be able to make the 'ch' sound in other contexts - just try it, the sound is not as guttral and phlegmy as the steryotype - it's actually relativley soft and smooth.

    'y' sounds like the 'u' in 'un', 'undone' and 'under' and many other words. :? this is one of those letters that is illogical for people trying to learn English because you say the letter is called 'you' but it is normally used as a 'uh' sound :?

    'e' always sounds like the 'e' in 'eddy', 'every', end etc. Basically one of the standard English usages of 'e' even though the letter on its own is called 'ee' - :? again not very logical or consistent use of the letter for non English speakers :?

    So! - bearing in mind the unique nature of the 'ch' sound- my best attempt at transliterating it in to English would be: Bool-CH uh Gro-es. 8)
  • ynyswen24ynyswen24 Posts: 703
    Emphasis on the first syllable:

    BULL-ch uh GRO-es (or GRO-ss if you're in down by here in the south)

    Definitely easier to say than to climb.
  • Stewie GriffinStewie Griffin Posts: 4,374
    What a palava, no wonder it didnt catch on :wink:
  • igamogamigamogam Posts: 17
    Ah yes! Sorry I forgot they have a funny accent in the South, but don't worry Bwlch y Groes is in the North so they'll understand you there :wink:

    Stewie Griffin. At least the language is still going and growing again, safeguarding part of Britains history and culture.

    The word Britain, comes from ancient Welsh (British or Brythonic) and many place names and features in England have names with Welsh roots.

    Words that come from British include London (highly likely) Lincoln, Manchester, Carlisle, Leeds, York, Devon, Cornwall and things like the river Avon & Dee (Avon means river in Welsh and Dee comes from the word for water).

    It would be sad to lose what makes us a nation. Even if 97% of the population of the UK is unaware of it's roots it would be a shame to have no idea why we are called Brits.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    there's plenty of 'Bwlch y Groeses' in Wales - we have one just down the road from us and there's another one in Pembs too.....common as muck they are....
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    bulk ee groys is how everyone I know says it
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  • iain_jiain_j Posts: 1,941
    igamogam wrote:
    So! - bearing in mind the unique nature of the 'ch' sound- my best attempt at transliterating it in to English would be: Bool-CH uh Gro-es. 8)

    Thanks for the guide. But still, from me, it sounded like a mix of Geordie and Pakistani :lol:
  • igamogamigamogam Posts: 17
    softlad wrote:
    there's plenty of 'Bwlch y Groeses' in Wales - we have one just down the road from us and there's another one in Pembs too.....common as muck they are....

    Yeah good point I forgot about how many there are, I just remember the one near Llanuwchllyn because it's the biggest... :(
  • igamogamigamogam Posts: 17
    bulk ee groys is how everyone I know says it

    I know that’s how non-natives say it but it's not right. It sounds more like "bwlc i grois" which is gobbledegook. Folk usually make allowances when it's not their mother tongue but It's nice to help people learn how to say it properly and it also gives them confidence to learn more.

    It's simple thing, for example, when you are having a post-ride "rehydration" in the pub with your Welsh mates you say 'iechid da' (good health). Most English speakers pronounce it "ia ci da" or "yakee da" which means "yes you're a good dog". When you translate it - it gets a laugh but most folk are happy to know how to say it properly and it gives you an excuse to try a few more 'iechid da's and have a few more pints. :D
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    igamogam wrote:
    I know that’s how non-natives say it but it's not right.

    I don't know how you can call ~70 years living there non-native
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  • ProssPross Posts: 23,901
    The problem letters (I guess) for monoglot English speakers are the 'w' 'ch' 'y' and 'e'.

    Don't forget 'll' and 'dd' which are the ones that usually provide amusement. Add to that the fact there is no 'v' but an 'f' makes the equivalent sound whereas 'ff' makes an English 'f' sound. I don't know why people find it confusing to be honest :? :wink:

    When I started trying to learn it (typical south Wallian, can't speak my mother tongue sorry :oops: but at least I sound proper tidy Welsh :lol: ) it was the mutations changing spellings at the start of a word that finished me off!
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    igamogam wrote:
    softlad wrote:
    there's plenty of 'Bwlch y Groeses' in Wales - we have one just down the road from us and there's another one in Pembs too.....common as muck they are....

    Yeah good point I forgot about how many there are, I just remember the one near Llanuwchllyn because it's the biggest... :(

    to be fair, I don't think the others are mountains - just place names.. ;)
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    igamogam wrote:
    I know that’s how non-natives say it but it's not right.

    I don't know how you can call ~70 years living there non-native

    I would never have had you down as being 70.... :shock:
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    softlad wrote:
    igamogam wrote:
    I know that’s how non-natives say it but it's not right.

    I don't know how you can call ~70 years living there non-native

    I would never have had you down as being 70.... :shock:

    I'm not, but I know plenty of people who are.
    I like bikes...

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  • WesterbergWesterberg Posts: 652
    orbeaorca wrote:
    Ok, I am off to Wales in May, one aim is to attempt to climb Bwlch Y Groes, but when I explain to mates what I am doing I cant even say it so can someone tell me how to pronounce it please
    It's pronounced: Fucn-Byg-Hyl
  • AggieboyAggieboy Posts: 3,689
    As we rule over you, shouldn't you just translate it into English and have done with it? :lol:
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • Mark AlexanderMark Alexander Posts: 2,277
    Well A friend was there a few days ago training, lucky sod. Better than work. As far a s pronunciation goes, it is all based on how many pints of Brains you've had whilst at the rugby.
    http://twitter.com/mgalex
    www.ogmorevalleywheelers.co.uk

    10TT 24:36 25TT: 57:59 50TT: 2:08:11, 100TT: 4:30:05 12hr 204.... unfinished business
  • acidstratoacidstrato Posts: 945
    Aggieboy wrote:
    As we rule over you, shouldn't you just translate it into English and have done with it? :lol:

    Pass the cross

    and nobody rules us because we rule 8)
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
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