NHS introduces Drive to Work scheme for employees

amaferanga

My employer (NHS in Sheffield) introduced a cycle to work scheme last year. Great. Encourages cycling, potentially less traffic on the roads in the city, etc.

Now I've just received an emailing advertising their new scheme - pay for your car parking permit through salary sacrifice and save 30%!

Now, I thought the whole justification for a cycle to work scheme was to encourage people to get a bike and not sit on their fat, lazy arses and drive to work.

So WTF is my employer now encouraging people to drive to work? Not that they need much encouraging mind - the last survey done indicated that over 70% of employees regularly drive to work

:? :? :? :?

Are any other NHS Trusts doing this?

SBezza

Perhaps some people live too far from work to cycle, or perhaps they need a car for work, based on what they do before/after work. Not everyone in this country is going to cycle, some people probably can't cycle.

My wife drives to work at a hospital, it would be too far for her to cycle, and she also takes our little lad to and fro his nan's everyday. I am lucky as this means I CAN ride to work. She pays for her permit via her salary, though whether this is discounted or not I am not sure. Does it really matter?

amaferanga

Its the discounted bit that I have a problem with - the scheme allows staff to pay for parking through their gross salaries, same as with the cycle scheme.

I just don't get it. The parking is only something like £100 a year anyway. And no way do >70% of stave HAVE to drive to work.

deptfordmarmoset

This hospital positively discourages cyclists. I was told last year by a twonk in a uniform that I couldn't leave a bike at the entrance - it would get removed ''for aesthetic reasons'' (I have this in writing from some twonk-commander in the premises office). There are no signposts indicating bike parking facilities. You actually have to have a street plan (which doesn't show them) and use it in conjunction with an online map to find out where the bike sheds are. And of course, when you finally locate them, you find that they're wheel-bender stands, many of which have been uprooted from the floor by thieves. The sheds have police signs up about bike thieves (really confidence inspiring) and the advice the police signs give is to leave your bike in a secure and visible place. Like, for example, the entrance....oh....

My father's in this hospital right now - Queen Elizabeth, Woolwich.

fungus_the_muffin_man

I work at a hospital in oldham. My trust haven't started a cycle to work scheme, but I cycle to work as many days as I can anyway. I also pay for a carparking pass which is £15 out of my wages every month. Now if my trust were to offer a similar scheme to the one the op has mentioned i'd get my pass much cheaper. Why would the op have a problemm with that. Getting it cheaper isn't going to encourage people to drive to work more. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Its disgusting that we have to pay for parking anyway.

Eau Rouge

The point of the scheme is to cut the NI contributions of multi-nationals employing people i the uk, to reduce the cost of employing people in the UK as a small part of not having the company move to eastern Europe instead. That it gets people cycling is a small side benefit.

Anything the Revenue will let you put on Salary Sacrafice cuts that bill and is allowed, there is no underlying social engeneering model to follow.

If you lock your bike at the entrance, wouldn't Mr. Twonk be guilty of criminal damage if he were to break the lock to remove it, and theft if he managed to remove it?

deptfordmarmoset

''If you lock your bike at the entrance, wouldn't Mr. Twonk be guilty of criminal damage if he were to break the lock to remove it, and theft if he managed to remove it?''

I've no idea about the law in this case but as I'm in there most days at the moment, I might find out as I'm not going to leave my bike where it's unsafe. There are no ''no bike'' signs and I'm following police advice about securing my bike. They would look like complete idiots if it came to a court case.

Personally, I think that if the hospital entrance aesthetic is of critical importance they should tone down the colour of their ambulances...and that cardigan definitely doesn't go with the blues and greys of the hospital canopy.

downfader

Southampton General's Trust have done this scheme for year. Though I think its only 10% less (could be wrong on that)

About 2 years back a load of employees had their permits revoked because they lived too close or on a bus route. (The bus company then removed a load services right after so that was good timing by the Trust ) I think its quite a common scheme

Headhuunter

How ridiculous. It never ceases to amaze me that an entity like the NHS whose very existence is centred around health promotes driving to work! I also noticed that food available at hospitals usually involves deep fried crap and chips with everything. Perhaps it's some kind of reverse marketing - turn everyone into fat unhealthy slobs and you validate your existence and ensure more funding from government....

beverick

Headhuunter wrote:

.......... deep fried crap.....

:shock:

fungus_the_muffin_man

downfader wrote:

Southampton General's Trust have done this scheme for year. Though I think its only 10% less (could be wrong on that)

About 2 years back a load of employees had their permits revoked because they lived too close or on a bus route. (The bus company then removed a load services right after so that was good timing by the Trust ) I think its quite a common scheme

We also had to all apply for a new car park pass. We had to fillout a questionaire which had questions like - How many buses would you have to get to work? How far away from your front door is the nearest bus stop? All those who it was felt lived to close to the hospital or lived on a good bus route had they're passes taken off them.
You'd think that this would've been a good time to get a bike to work scheme organised to run in conjunction with it. But Pennine Acute NHS Trust doesn't have the common sense of a bucket :roll:

JohnnyAllez

Problem with a lot of hospital car-parks is that the people who need to park ie the sick for A&E or visiting, for appointments or otherwise, cant` get in the car-parks due to them being full of staff cars !! Oldham hospital is well known for this ! :? Is it right that they`ve built a new staff only multi-story car-park in the new section Fungus ??

fungus_the_muffin_man

JohnnyAllez wrote:

Problem with a lot of hospital car-parks is that the people who need to park ie the sick for A&E or visiting, for appointments or otherwise, cant` get in the car-parks due to them being full of staff cars !! Oldham hospital is well known for this ! :? Is it right that they`ve built a new staff only multi-story car-park in the new section Fungus ??

No the car park where the majority of staff used to park is now the new Christies at Oldham building. The parking at the back of the main building is just about to go as they start to build phase 1,2,3. Staff have just been told that they will now have to park on the rough ground next to Oldham Athletic FC and then walk to work from there. It would've made sense to build a multi storey prior to starting the christies bit. But our suggestions for that just got poo poo'd. So now we have to pay £15 a month to park on some disused rubble strewn ground with no proper security and the female staff will have to walk alone to their cars in all weathers and whilst it's dark. Not a very safe way for staff to get to work and then have to care for patients pissed wet through from walking the distance from the car park to the hospital grounds.
Whilst I agree that staff parking causes problems for patients and visitors. When you work the shift patterns we do it's unfair to then not be allowed to park at your place of work.

passout

Does seem a strange idea.

millimole

My trust has just introduced a Cycle to Work scheme, along with another salary sacrifice scheme to allow you to purchase extra leave days. The parking scheme is strongly rumoured to be next. Our trust needs to make eye-watering amounts of saving next year, and the salary sacrifice schemes are being touted as a way of reducing the costs of employing us - which I frankly don't get - although Eau Rouge's suggestion about reduced NI charges might be the case.

For the record I pay £20 / month for a permit to park on a peice of rough ground about 10 minutes walk from work, although I cycle most days - her indoors generally has the car for her work. I pay for the permit because I knew I'd get one when I applied for it, and if I left it I wouldn't stand a cat's chance of ever gettng one, and parking is impossible thereabouts. Almost all staff parking is on rough ground, and the majority of it is off-site.

pickle70

My wife tried to apply to buy a new bike under the cycle to work scheme and the admin peeps informed her that it had finished. How can an NHS trust decide to end a scheme that was supposedly, in part, aimed at improving peoples fitness? I've pasted the following from the Gov's cycle to work guidance doc.

14. Encouraging More Cycling to Work
The Cycle to Work tax efficient scheme should be seen as part of a series of measures to reduce commuting by car through making cycling more attractive. There still may be a number of barriers for employees who would like to cycle to work. It might be the need for suitable parking facilities or somewhere to shower and change; it might be a lack of confidence on the road or knowing the most appropriate routes – some employees may not have been on a bike since their school days.
The Department for Transport has launched the Cycle to Work Guarantee to encourage more employers to overcome these barriers by signing them up to:
●● Secure, safe, and accessible bike parking facilities for all staff who want them;
●● Good quality changing and locker facilities for all staff who want them;
●● Offset the cost of cycling equipment and save on the tax through the ‘Cycle to Work scheme’;
●● Bike repair for cyclists on or near site;
●● Training, reward and incentive programmes to achieve targets for more cycling.

NGale

My trust....encouraging people to Car Share while reducing the pot of money for the C2W scheme....barmy!

Ollieda

In all fairness if 70% of the staff drive to work then helping them out with a reduced car park price doesn't seem to bad. You just have to face it that most people are never going to cycle to work for a variety of reasons and only the more hardcore cycle commuters would cycle everyday.

If there are tax benifits to be had for the company from salary sacrifice then it's an obvious step to take, it might even encourage more people to get a parking permit than clogging up local streets and parking there.

If there were members of staff thinking about starting to cycle to work I doubt that saving £30 on their parking permit would be the thing that stopped them doing it!

amaferanga

pickle70 wrote:

My wife tried to apply to buy a new bike under the cycle to work scheme and the admin peeps informed her that it had finished. How can an NHS trust decide to end a scheme that was supposedly, in part, aimed at improving peoples fitness? I've pasted the following from the Gov's cycle to work guidance doc.

14. Encouraging More Cycling to Work
The Cycle to Work tax efficient scheme should be seen as part of a series of measures to reduce commuting by car through making cycling more attractive. There still may be a number of barriers for employees who would like to cycle to work. It might be the need for suitable parking facilities or somewhere to shower and change; it might be a lack of confidence on the road or knowing the most appropriate routes – some employees may not have been on a bike since their school days.
The Department for Transport has launched the Cycle to Work Guarantee to encourage more employers to overcome these barriers by signing them up to:
●● Secure, safe, and accessible bike parking facilities for all staff who want them;
●● Good quality changing and locker facilities for all staff who want them;
●● Offset the cost of cycling equipment and save on the tax through the ‘Cycle to Work scheme’;
●● Bike repair for cyclists on or near site;
●● Training, reward and incentive programmes to achieve targets for more cycling.

Has it been scrapped or do they have windows once or twice a year? My Trust only has two ~1 month long windows where you can sign up to the scheme so for 10 months of the year its effectively closed.

amaferanga

The multistory car park at the Hospital where I work is usually full in the afternoon causing traffic chaos as visitors/patients drive round and round the one way system hoping that a space will be available when they get back to the entrance to the car park.

I do appreciate that some people have to drive to work, but there are clearly many, many people who drive because its the easy option. Such people should be actively encouraged to use alternative means of transport (we have a decent network of trams in Sheffield) or at least use one of the park and ride car parks on the edge of the city.

zedders

Having used most of the hospitals in Leicestershire, (through my previous job & through the odd accident or two) car parking at all is a nightmare. I use to work at the LGH and could park right outside our building. There was no way I could cycle. (20 miles away and no showers/changing). Now it's pay and display? As are other car parks such as the Glenfield, and the LRI. Recently St Cross Hosp in Rugby became play and display? It has a big car park and is empty half the time! So why are they charging staff, patients and alike? There seems to be a common theme to make all car parks on hospital grounds pay and display.
I may be being cynical but are these Trusts using these facilities to make money? Maybe the Trust are trying to make money out of the staff to charge for car parking? Hence promote drive to work?

I don't think it's just the NHS though. I work for the Police and my employer promotes C2W, but then on the other foot, removes the changing rooms and excellent showers (big walk through) at my nick, and replaces them with two cubicles, and fills the changing room with lockers, leaving staff nowhere to actually get changed? Bizarre!

amaferanga

I don't think Trusts are allowed to profit from parking - it should be charged to cover the cost of running and maintaining the facilities.

zedders

amaferanga wrote:

I don't think Trusts are allowed to profit from parking - it should be charged to cover the cost of running and maintaining the facilities.

where there's a will....?

Porgy

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

This hospital positively discourages cyclists. I was told last year by a twonk in a uniform that I couldn't leave a bike at the entrance - it would get removed ''for aesthetic reasons'' (I have this in writing from some twonk-commander in the premises office). There are no signposts indicating bike parking facilities. You actually have to have a street plan (which doesn't show them) and use it in conjunction with an online map to find out where the bike sheds are. And of course, when you finally locate them, you find that they're wheel-bender stands, many of which have been uprooted from the floor by thieves. The sheds have police signs up about bike thieves (really confidence inspiring) and the advice the police signs give is to leave your bike in a secure and visible place. Like, for example, the entrance....oh....

My father's in this hospital right now - Queen Elizabeth, Woolwich.

I knew I recognised it - that's the view I get of it going past on a double decker bus.

Pross

Parking charges have been scrapped completely at Welsh hospitals (except the UHW where they still have a contract with a private contractor) so staff can now just go back to parking for nothing and leaving no spaces for visitors. A lot of the staff in my local hospital travel from 15 to 20 miles away, public transport is poor and with shift working cars are about the only practical option. However, schemes to encourage cycling, walking or public transport have to be offered by large private sector employers surely otherwise it is hypocritical to expect private sector companies to do so.

Headhuunter

Porgy wrote:

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

This hospital positively discourages cyclists. I was told last year by a twonk in a uniform that I couldn't leave a bike at the entrance - it would get removed ''for aesthetic reasons'' (I have this in writing from some twonk-commander in the premises office). There are no signposts indicating bike parking facilities. You actually have to have a street plan (which doesn't show them) and use it in conjunction with an online map to find out where the bike sheds are. And of course, when you finally locate them, you find that they're wheel-bender stands, many of which have been uprooted from the floor by thieves. The sheds have police signs up about bike thieves (really confidence inspiring) and the advice the police signs give is to leave your bike in a secure and visible place. Like, for example, the entrance....oh....

My father's in this hospital right now - Queen Elizabeth, Woolwich.

I knew I recognised it - that's the view I get of it going past on a double decker bus.

Yeah I thought so too! I went there for a scan to diagnose a stress fracture in my shin. That was back at the end of 2007. I cycled there an locked my bike up against some railings by that big tent like entrance and no one said anything, in fact there were other bikes there too. I remember that I got a puncturre on the way there but managed to walk the short distance to get there for the appointment, however I'd forgotten my spare tube and repair kit so I had to get a bloody taxi back...

dilemna

Some of the most unhealthy people work in the NHS. Is it any wonder this is so when health trusts go out of their way to promote lard ar$e car use over any other means of transport. They should provide free bikes, sell off 80% of the car parks leaving only parking for visitors and essential hospital vehicles, and make staff use alternative means of getting to and from work. If staff live too far away then they should move nearer or find another job. If you cycle, use public transport or roller blades then fine. If you use a car then you are basically stuffed.

mroli

I have been involved in the planning end of new hospital related stuff and very little of this comes from the hospitals themselves. There is a massive disincentive for hospitals through the planning process to include lots and lots of lovely car-parking as planners hate this. I guess they think the sick and ill should get public transport to hospital. Of course, this problem is made worse by the fact that an inordinate number of NHS staff drive to work - but they could claim shift issues/on call/nature of jobs requiring reliable transport etc. It is a hard one to figure out and has been beyond most people so far. In relation to the car parking being a cash generating cow - yes it is. It is an important stream of revenue for hospitals and if they're not making money themselves directly out of those parking their cars, they are contracting with private companies to run their car parks for the payment of a fee who are defo concerned with maximising profits.

alfablue

There is a hospital I know (mentioning no names) that charges some staff in excess of £1000 for a parking permit. Income generation is central to the issue. The over 8 hr visitor parking fee is £10. Parking spaces are also limited, the local council has apparently enforced a limit. Whilst as many workers as possible should be encouraged to cycle to work, there are issues that make the prospect untenable to many who work shifts (cycling in the dark is out of the question for many inexperienced cyclists). Similarly, the restrictions and / or costs to staff for parking mean they may often have to park a long way off site, and this too poses safety concerns when walking alone late at night (and the employer does have some responsibility for H&S in this context). I really think the NHS takes little heed of the health and safety of its workers, and unfortunately, despite the potential industrial muscle of being the 3rd largest workforce in the world (and the largest proportionate to the population), NHS workers are complete pussies and just take what is dished out without a whimper.