Afternoon rant

Surf-Matt

Is anyone else a bit pi55ed off with the amount of near criminal mickey taking going on at the moment from those in power?

We have the banks fucking up our system, being bailed out by us then helping themselves to HUGE bonuses despite making multi billion pounds LOSSES and despite being 84% owned by all of US. We seem to have NO say in what happens and they seem to be untouchable.

We have energy companies that raise prices as soon as wholesale costs go up yet keeping them high in a RECESSION in the coldest Winter in decades despite a 60% drop in wholesale prices.

We have MPs taking the absolute pi55 with expenses.

We have civil servants on crazy money often sat around doing feck all (I see this all the time - some of our clients work with them)

It seems we have become a society that has come to tolerate banks that flit happily from capitalism (when booming/taking stupid risks) to communism (when it goes wrong for them), puts crooks up on a pedestal and yet penalises those who operate in genuinely competitive markets who pay a fortune in tax.

We protested about fox hunting - that affects hardly anyone. We rioted about global warming - that's probably made up. Yet we seem happy to be hushed over stuff that unfairly affects our own incomes, ways of life and will hurt our kids for years to come.

Rant over - for now.

xstrathyx

i hear you bro, i hear ya

bails87

Then become a civil servant and earn the 'crazy money' for doing no work?

blister pus

yes, and i could add to it in volumes.

but I know I'll be dead before anything will ever happen about any of it.

missmarple

Shit happens, things move on. I've got to pay out nearly £110,000 as the government doesn't think training commercial pilots are classified as students? I don't complain.

bails87

missmarple wrote:

shoot happens, things move on. I've got to pay out nearly £110,000 as the government doesn't think training commercial pilots are classified as students? I don't complain.

To be fair, I'd agree with them. If you want it for free then join the RAF.

And you haven't got to pay it

Beardface

Surf-Matt wrote:

Yet we seem happy to be hushed over stuff that unfairly affects our own incomes, ways of life and will hurt our kids for years to come.

I hear ya too Matt.. agree with everything you've said, and it really grinds my gears (giggity).. Also, the £20k death tax... :evil:

But, what can we do about it? If we protested, we'd probably be nicked, fined etc. Sadly, the 'average joe' like you and I don't really have any say, and I highly doubt we'll ever be able to change anything. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd be happy to try anything!)

We currently live in a country run by boy loving, overpaid, clueless pricks. My only logical idea is to leave the country for pastures new..

missmarple

bails87 wrote:

missmarple wrote:

shoot happens, things move on. I've got to pay out nearly £110,000 as the government doesn't think training commercial pilots are classified as students? I don't complain.

To be fair, I'd agree with them. If you want it for free then join the RAF.

And you haven't got to pay it

I can't, I suffer from very light hayfever and my legs are too long for the ejector seats.

The point that you can get it for free from the RAF is not a valid argument in essence, the point is like all students who attend an educational institution - are eligible for a student loan - we are not yet we complete a degree too whilst on the course.

I'm not moaning, nothing is fair - you've just got to move on and appreciate that others don't look at the world from the same perspective of yours.

Thewaylander

I agree to a point.

But on the power companies point. i would say hmm maybe but the amount of R&D the power indestry is having to do at the moment, to attempt to make sure we have continueing power source.

Not forgetting most green forms of energy are loss leading and are only made profitable via large goverment grants.

And as for the bonuses, possibly some of them are contractual, then they are part of there renumeration packages. But if not and the bank is not making an income then it just awful management and the banks do not deserve to be bailed(sadly that would mean alot of people lost there money)

Surf-Matt

But I swear it's got worse.

Not complaining personally - business is good, etc, but a lot of people are suffering who have worked hard and done nothing wrong while many are being rewarded for failure/being crooked.

Thewaylander

Sadly the rule is ruled by the crooked,

We say its a democracy but its vote for least twatty sadly. The old addage, people who go seeking power should never be given it. sadly all we have is people seeking power, you can't vote for the nice guy who would be sensible, as he wont be running

Kiblams

let's face it, you start earning over £50k and you are likely to be in this "gentlemans club" where they all share favours and generally swap management jobs with each other while always increasing thier incomes.

I think I just died a little inside

Thewaylander

I couldn't agree morekib

MacAndCheese

missmarple wrote:

bails87 wrote:

missmarple wrote:

all students who attend an educational institution - are eligible for a student loan

I wouldn't get too bothered, To be honest if I went back and could do it again, I wouldn't take as much loan - it sucks getting a statement every so often that says I still owe a lot of money!

blister pus

this country started to be systematically sold out under Thatcher and continued exponentially ever since. The nail in the coffin was new labour. People still don't seem to understand that it makes bugger all difference who or what party you put in power. if the system and systems themselves don't function as they should you're always going to be putting lipstick on the pig.

Change upsets those who gain most and have pivotal roles in keeping the status quo. Which is why in the States the disparity between rich and poor is greater than ever and why the top 5 percent own more than half of all wealth and the richest 10 percent of families own about 85 percent of all outstanding stocks. They own about 85 percent of all financial securities, 90 percent of all business assets - and this country is a satellite extension, and now, no different.

Really you'd need to start from scratch with a clean slate......like I said, I won't see it.

Thewaylander

I have huge student laons.

I remember my first year in reading, got my first laon check then my hall bill which was 20 less than the loan.
Ended up with 9.5k debt and it never even covered my housing costs, let alone course fee's and so on... facking joke

Briggo

RBS needs to pay out bonuses to keep the good staff (that made money in the investment sector) to help pay back the deficit, if they didnt those good staff would look elsewhere to rivals who would pay bonuses, i.e. Barclays, and the chances of RBS becoming a profitable private company again would be extremely challenging for them.

And why should the frontline staff who had no bearing on the massive losses the crap staff in the investment sector made, lose out on a bonus too.

Personally I have no qualms with the bonuses, they could have been a lot more, so long as the money starts being paid back, although we'll never personally see a penny of that either however we'll have to pay for it now in tax hikes...

Gas/Elec companies do take the piss, Ofgen (is it Ofgen?) need to slap their silly backsides more.

Surf-Matt

So we bail them out and suffer tax hikes, they still get paid massive bonuses?

Sorry but to me bonus = good performance. The banks run riot when then going is "good" bleat to the taxpayer when they mess up then run riot again after the tiniest of slaps on the wrist. Meanwhile unemployment is massive, our troops are underfunded and our NHS and public transport system are falling to bits.

Hmmmm.....

Briggo

Surf-Matt wrote:

So we bail them out and suffer tax hikes, they still get paid massive bonuses?

Sorry but to me bonus = good performance. The banks run riot when then going is "good" bleat to the taxpayer when they mess up then run riot again after the tiniest of slaps on the wrist. Meanwhile unemployment is massive, our troops are underfunded and our NHS and public transport system are falling to bits.

Hmmmm.....

The tax hikes isnt due to RBS, thats the goverments choosing. (not that its been confirmed if its tax hikes or spending cuts, but lets face it so much money is wasted in the public sector they need to learn to cut back on wastage, if it was a private company it'd have shut down long ago)

If you delve deep into the figures RBS made money if you take away the writeoffs of the bad loans the useless investors created.

So the aim of the game for RBS is to tell their crap investors to eff off and lick the bums of the good investors to keep them making money. I dont see what the problem is there, how can you not see that?

If I made the company I work for as much as some of these investors do I'd expect a bloody good bonus as well.

Stop looking at the bonuses as RBS as a whole, RBS is weeding out the crappers and paying up the gooduns.

Surf-Matt

Well the crappers are "outdoing" the gooduns comprehensively.

If most businesses make a loss, they close down. They don't reward their staff; unless you're a bank in which case you just get a slap on the back.

If we hadn't bailed them out, they would have gone bust. I wish they had.

I am sick of "explanations" and excuses. They have got away with near murder, they have been bailed out, they are being rewarded. That's wrong. The most galling thing is, patronising "experts" trying to explain away the issue. If they were so damn clever, why didn't ANYONE see the crisis looming. Plenty of non "experts" saw it from a mile off.

Briggo

Surf-Matt wrote:

If we hadn't bailed them out, they would have gone bust. I wish they had.

If only it was as simple as that, unfortunately for banks... it isnt.

Surf-Matt

It happened with Lehman Brothers - we seem to have survived as a nation...

trekhead

I think generally Matt has got a point and I think thats how alot of people are feeling right now - I certainly do.

We seem to be `down-trodden` as a society, and the p1ss taking seems more and more blatant. But sadly it`s been like it for a long time, whoever is in power.

How can a company such as BA, make record profits 2 years ago and now be virtually on its knees?

Rightly or wrongly, people are struggling and utility companies are announcing record profits.

Thatcher created a society of `look after number one` and I think that`s what is going on in the UK in general now. Other countries don`t take things lying down, they do actually protest, something else that`s becoming a thing of the past - we need a good old fashioned riot.

Haven`t attended one of those since the Poll Tax Riot - what a day out that was

Thewaylander

As i said it depends on the employee contract, if the contracts stipulates a bonus, then what choice do people have but to pay...

But i agree some of its preposterous. the public sector work is a joke, huge benefits and piss easy work loads, I wish i worked public rather than privat... get my 4.5% pension contribution to a nice 20%

Northwind

Surf-Matt wrote:

We have the banks ******* up our system, being bailed out by us then helping themselves to HUGE bonuses despite making multi billion pounds LOSSES and despite being 84% owned by all of US. We seem to have NO say in what happens and they seem to be untouchable.

How many banks are 84% owned by us? You keep saying banks plural, you're talking only about one.

Surf-Matt

I'm using one as an example. "We" also own a large percentage of several other major banks that have been bailed out. You know that - pedantry doesn't pay in this case.

Northwind

Surf-Matt wrote:

I'm using one as an example. "We" also own a large percentage of several other major banks that have been bailed out. You know that - pedantry doesn't pay in this case.

You just happen to be using the worst example Who are your "several other"? Lloyds and... Hmm.

Briggo

Surf-Matt wrote:

It happened with Lehman Brothers - we seem to have survived as a nation...

Because the US goverment stepped in and started bailing out the other banks that felt the impact of Lehman Bro's collapsing...

It was a stupid error, the Federal reserve pleaded for them to be bailed out but the Secretary of the Treasury said "nah man they can go suck it up the fools" ... *collapse of Lehman Brothers happens, other banks start to feel it and shout amagad we're doomed* .. Secretary of Treasury and the President are like "woah sh*t erm we cocked that up, best we start helping these banks out or they'll all collapse"

Surf-Matt

Northwind wrote:

Surf-Matt wrote:

I'm using one as an example. "We" also own a large percentage of several other major banks that have been bailed out. You know that - pedantry doesn't pay in this case.

You just happen to be using the worst example Who are your "several other"? Lloyds and... Hmm.

Goldman Sachs, Northern Rock, HBOS and guaranteeing the savings of £50k for every saver at EVERY bank was a very thinly disguised form of bail out.

Northwind

Northern Rock was taken into state ownership, not bailed out. HBOS no longer exists. Goldman Sachs? Have they received a bailout? They were heavily involved in the US AIG bailout, I know that.

The savings protection scheme isn't new! The FSCS was set up in 2001. It was at a lower level- was it £35000? Can't recall exactly- but to claim it as part of the bailout really makes no sense at all. Particularily considering how it's funded.

bails87

Well I for one am glad I live in the UK. I sure as hell wouldn't want to have been living in Iceland, Dubai, the USA or Greece over the last couple of years or so.

We came out of it fairly well. Still got a functioning financial sector, which actually is important. And plenty of firms have cut hours rather than laying off thousands of workers.

It was a global problem, not a UK one, either we lose all the revenue from the financial sector, or we suffer the occasional 'down' like almost every other country on Earth.

Briggo's right, if we don't pay the staff in 'public' banks well, then we'll be left with the mongs, and we'll never see a return, and there'll be more bailouts.