Bianchi, Bianchi or...Focus!

ilovegadgets

OK, keen mountain biker looking to get first road bike. Looking at around £1200 budget, and something that is maybe not out-and-out racer but still a performance machine, light-weight and comfortable.

Is there a lot of difference between the Bianchi Via Narone Alu Carbon 105/Ultegra (red/white) and the 1885 Veloce? The latter is the B4P which I think is more performance orientated, and is only available in the celeste colour.

The alternative is the focus cayo limited edition 2010....!

Comments?

fungus_the_muffin_man

I don't know if £1439 is pushing it abit from your £1200 budget but you could have this

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/bianchi/928-veloce-2009-road-bike-ec016946?query=Bianchi

I have the ultegra version its a truly great bike if your after a Bianchi.

Philby

The Via Nirone has a larger head tube that the 1885 B4P, and is therefore a more relaxed position against the racier more stretched position of the 1885.

I have a Via Nirone and it has a lovely ride position for my needs, and is extremely comfortable for longer rides.

No knowledge about the Focus.

Have you also looked at bikes such as Cannondale CAAD 9 (recommended daily on here), Trek 1.7 or 1.9, Orbea, or even the bargaintastic Boardman which also gets great reviews? There's almost too much choice, but at least its a pleasurable experience going round various bike shops.

bennj

I have the 2008 Cayo, which came with Ultegra and mavic aksium wheelset as standard.

Have to say I absolutely love it, really nice ride and I feel a real difference when I ride it after my Trek 1200 winter bike.

Did ride a bianchi Nirone in Italy last year and loved it too!

tough call, but I would say try and ride as many as you can, we are all built that little bit differently and therefore differnt brands suit accordingly!

Good luck

blinddrew

Wouldn't be a bikeradar new-bike thread if someone didn't recommend a planet-x, allow me:

Check out planet-x, they've got some very nice offers on at the moment.

full ultegra build for £1100 gives you money for shoes and pedals.

For reference, i have one of these and think they're very nice. A mate has a cayo and swears by that though... ;¬)

fungus_the_muffin_man

blinddrew wrote:

Wouldn't be a bikeradar new-bike thread if someone didn't recommend a planet-x, allow me:

Check out planet-x, they've got some very nice offers on at the moment.

full ultegra build for £1100 gives you money for shoes and pedals.

For reference, i have one of these and think they're very nice. A mate has a cayo and swears by that though... ;¬)

How dare you defile a bianchi topic with that planet x dross :shock:

oscarbudgie

A CAAD9 is a joy forever

pickled

Just let the man buy his Bianchi...

PS Listen to Fungus, he's right. Stretch your budget to the one in his link.

fungus_the_muffin_man

Pickled nice piccy by the way. Your via Nirone looks lovely in Celeste.

I'm in North Manchester we should organise a bianchi appreciation ride somewhere

pickled

Thanks Fungus.
That's not a bad idea either. Might not be very may of us though.

ilovegadgets

Loving your via narone in celeste pickled! Is celeste the 'must have colour' if i get a Bianchi..??

pickled

Not really. If you like the colour go for it.
I know it's pretty Marmite for some people.

blorg

I used to own a Cayo and now own a Planet X. The Planet X is the better bike IMHO, substantially lighter and seems stiffer too. I would certainly choose it over an aluminium-carbon Bianchi. Know a few people with these and they look nice but they are a bit on the heavy side.

fungus_the_muffin_man

ilovegadgets wrote:

Loving your via narone in celeste pickled! Is celeste the 'must have colour' if i get a Bianchi..??

A traditionalist would say celeste only but then they'd be campag only too!

You can also get a nice white , grey or red depending on make and model. All have a little accent of celeste. So with mine, as it's red, I've got celeste bartape, celeste saddle, awaiting celeste tyres at the moment and white/celeste bottle cages. which have helped to "pop" out the celeste accents on the bike.

What did you think to the one I put the link up for?

Lady Venom

Bianchi.

I love mine (mine's black though as it was in the sale, but I like it because I can wear any colour - but celeste is beautiful).

ilovegadgets

blorg wrote:

I used to own a Cayo and now own a Planet X. The Planet X is the better bike IMHO, substantially lighter and seems stiffer too. I would certainly choose it over an aluminium-carbon Bianchi. Know a few people with these and they look nice but they are a bit on the heavy side.

Where can I find the weights of the Bianchi models...they don't specify that on their website? Are they really that much heavier...obviously won't be quite as light as a full carbon set up but compared to other bikes in same class?

dbg

The via nirone is a heavy bike, my bro chopped one in for the Ultegra build Planet X and the difference is staggering. Also Planet X are doing a dura ace build within your budget making it a complete no-brainer.
As with all Italian bikes you're paying a premium price for the name mate.

Escargot

I've ridden both Bianchi's and they're lovely but like chalk/cheese.

The Via Nirone is supremely comfortable and noticably less sharp in the handling stakes whereas the 1885 is the complete opposite (although not uncomfortable by any stretch) so really depends on what you prefer.

Personally I found the Nirone damped out too much so preferred the 1885 as it gave more feel, even if I'm no racer.

Neither are particularly lightweight but I'd have one over a PX anyday. dbg may be right about you paying for the name but my take on it is that you're paying extra for proper design/qualification of the frame. Good as the PX may be I'm just not into generic frames as it's more difficult to know if the massive weight savings on the frames have been properly validated by rigorous testing/qualification.

FYI: ilovegadgets. I think Bianchi may still have a .pdf file with the bike weights. I downloaded one last year and the respective weights for the Via Nirone and 1885 are as follows:

Via NIRONE 7 AL CARB. - Ultegra mx10sp Compact 8,86kg
Via NIRONE 7 AL CARB. - Ultegra mx10sp Double
Via NIRONE 7 AL CARB. - Ultegra mx 10sp Triple
Via NIRONE 7 AL CARB. - 105 mx 10sp Compact 9,22kg
Via NIRONE 7 AL CARB. - 105 mx 10sp Triple
Via NIRONE 7 AL CARB. - Veloce Compact 9,26kg
Via NIRONE 7 AL - XENON mix 10sp Compact
Via NIRONE 7 AL - Tiagra 9sp Triple
Via NIRONE 7 AL - Sora 9sp Compact 9,30kg
Via NIRONE 7 AL - Sora 9sp Triple 9,36kg

1885 Alu - 105 10sp Double
1885 Alu - Veloce 10sp Double 9,10kg

928 Carbon Mono-Q - 105 Compact 8,30kg

I'd say they aren't particularly lightweight until you get to the 928 but weight isn't everything and I'm sure the alu bikes are comparable with other alu bikes in the same category.

At the end of the day riding a lighter bike feels a bit better but in the real world doesn't mean a great deal for 99% of riders on here.

ilovegadgets

appreciate the info Escargot...bloody hell, now an Orbea Onix is in the frame! Too much choice!!

blorg

ilovegadgets wrote:

Where can I find the weights of the Bianchi models...they don't specify that on their website? Are they really that much heavier...obviously won't be quite as light as a full carbon set up but compared to other bikes in same class?

I'm just going on picking up friends ones, at a GUESS I would say they could be 1.5-2kg over the PX. I would guess 9-9.5kg against the PX at @~7.5. Obviously this is not all the frame although the fork is probably a fair bit heavier also. The finishing kit and group are also heavier than you get with the PX, PX's own brand stuff is actually extremely light. Point is, it is not just a few grams, it is a hell of a lot and that will come out in how the bike rides.

Escargot wrote:

Good as the PX may be I'm just not into generic frames as it's more difficult to know if the massive weight savings on the frames have been properly validated by rigorous testing/qualification.

I would take the countless number of satisfied riders who post their opinions as validation that there are no major problems with the bike, I am sure we would have heard something in all these years if there were. Incidentally I must know and ride with at least 20 people on the bikes and no-one has had any problems.

Escargot

blorg wrote:

I would take the countless number of satisfied riders who post their opinions as validation that there are no major problems with the bike, I am sure we would have heard something in all these years if there were. Incidentally I must know and ride with at least 20 people on the bikes and no-one has had any problems.

Sadly that's not the same thing. A company that puts their designs through a rigorous test campaign is not in any way similar to reading opinions on a forum or hearing your mates discussing their bikes.

I've no doubt PX frames are sound but unfortunately there is very little/no info available on them. This is maybe consistent with the general consensus that they buy them in from China. Whether they had any input into design etc. is not well known or even if the frames have any heritage from old designs etc. Unlike companies like Bianchi and Focus, who advertise the fact they manage the development/testing of their designs. It is possibly a reflection on PX's offerings that they only offer a 2 year warranty compared to the 5 years that Bianchi offer.

Ultimately you make your choice and pay your money. It's a personal thing for me that I like to know someone has taken the time to test/validate their products. Maybe PX do but the lack of info makes me edgy especially when their frames are pushing the boundaries of weight.

At the end of the day the only way to make a carbon frame lighter is to scrimp on materials which is fine but I want more confidence in a product than to listen to what your mates are saying.

pickled

There are other factors other than weight you know.
It should also be noted that the lower end Bianchi's (like mine) Don't come with particularly light wheels.
The Planet X et al. However do.

Put a decent set of wheels on at a later date and I reckon you'd be within a couple of bags of sugar if that's your thing.

It's not all about weight and saving money you know.
Otherwise we'd all be riding brand X
Sorry. Planet X....

blorg

Escargot wrote:

I've no doubt PX frames are sound but unfortunately there is very little/no info available on them. This is maybe consistent with the general consensus that they buy them in from China.

Where do you think Bianchi come from?

Maybe PX do but the lack of info makes me edgy especially when their frames are pushing the boundaries of weight.

The PX is light for the entry-level money but it is in no way an extremely lightweight carbon frame. It is mid-range. So lighter than a Focus Cayo, etc. but certainly heavier than high-end carbon frames.

blorg

Escargot wrote:

I've no doubt PX frames are sound but unfortunately there is very little/no info available on them. This is maybe consistent with the general consensus that they buy them in from China.

Where do you think Bianchi come from?

Maybe PX do but the lack of info makes me edgy especially when their frames are pushing the boundaries of weight.

The PX is light for the entry-level money but it is in no way an extremely lightweight carbon frame. It is mid-range. So lighter than a Focus Cayo, etc. but certainly heavier than high-end carbon frames.

Put a decent set of wheels on at a later date and I reckon you'd be within a couple of bags of sugar if that's your thing.

The weight difference is 1.5-2kg, you are not going to make that up with a lighter wheelset.

Escargot

blorg wrote:

Escargot wrote:

I've no doubt PX frames are sound but unfortunately there is very little/no info available on them. This is maybe consistent with the general consensus that they buy them in from China.

Where do you think Bianchi come from?

Maybe PX do but the lack of info makes me edgy especially when their frames are pushing the boundaries of weight.

The PX is light for the entry-level money but it is in no way an extremely lightweight carbon frame. It is mid-range. So lighter than a Focus Cayo, etc. but certainly heavier than high-end carbon frames.

The point I was trying to make was that PX buy generic frames in from China with little or no tracability (for the public that is - I'm sure they know exactly what the heritage is but chose not to publish). I'm sure Bianchi have their frames made in China too (I wasn't intimating that China was a bad place to buy frames from) but they will be to their exact specification/standards. It's this lack of traceability that worries me but given they are incredibly cheap then this is something that's not a problem for a lot of people.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing their products but just giving my personal reasons for not having any interest in them (in the same way you're giving a counter arguement for buying a cheaper, lighter alternative).

For me the happy compromise is the Focus as it's still a cracking bike and fantastic value but with more visibility in the design chain.

blorg

Escargot wrote:

For me the happy compromise is the Focus as it's still a cracking bike and fantastic value but with more visibility in the design chain.

It is frankly not quite as nice a ride as the PX; I would go for it over an aluminium Bianchi though. I am not sure how it has "more visibility in the design chain" whatever that means.

Incidentally here is an opinon from someone who "upgraded" (his words) from a Bianchi 1885 to a Planet X. Any friends of mine who have swapped an aluminium frame to a carbon one (this includes many swapping to PX) have noticed a phenomenal difference primarily in comfort, secondarily in weight. Ditto someone who swapped from an aluminium Bianchi although that was not to a PX. I have owned Trek aluminium and carbon and even with identical geometry and groupset the carbon bike was unbelievably better.

pickled

I'm not sure you understand what's being said.
There's a reason why people buy Alfa Romeo's over BMW's too.

Escargot

blorg wrote:

Escargot wrote:

For me the happy compromise is the Focus as it's still a cracking bike and fantastic value but with more visibility in the design chain.

It is frankly not quite as nice a ride as the PX; I would go for it over an aluminium Bianchi though. I am not sure how it has "more visibility in the design chain" whatever that means.

Incidentally here is an opinon from someone who "upgraded" (his words) from a Bianchi 1885 to a Planet X. Any friends of mine who have swapped an aluminium frame to a carbon one (this includes many swapping to PX) have noticed a phenomenal difference primarily in comfort, secondarily in weight. Ditto someone who swapped from an aluminium Bianchi although that was not to a PX. I have owned Trek aluminium and carbon and even with identical geometry and groupset the carbon bike was unbelievably better.

But surely how a bike feels is down to the rider and what they feel is more comfortable etc, otherwise our fair lady Nicole Cooke would be riding PX and not Focus.

We could go round in circles on this one but as Pickled has pointed out, people buy bikes for various reasons. Strange as it may sound I have absolutely no interest in PX bikes regardless of how cheap the are or what kit you get for your money (relative to a Bianchi/Focus/etc.).

If I had the money I would buy a De Rosa King3 frameset. For sure there are a multitude of other more superior alternatives (probably even a PX) but I love De Rosa so would not consider anything else. A 10x better PX frameset could be one 1/10 of the price but it still wouldn't register on the radar no matter what opinions/reviews were given. I realise this does not compute for your PX owners but sadly that's how crazy the rest of the bike buying world is

blorg

No, I completely understand that, I have a Litespeed Archon myself as my best bike. I bought this because I wanted it, not for any reason based on price/performance, especially as I solidly believe that carbon and not titanium is the optimal material for a racing bike.

My PX I bought as a winter bike simply as it was astounding value and would let me keep my Litespeed for the good weather.

What I have found is that with the contact points set up the same the bike rides virtually identically. This does not detract from my love of the Litespeed!

At the entry-level I do think PX offer far better value than an aluminium Bianchi. This does not mean for a second that I would criticise someone buying a top-end Bianchi, just that they acknowledge the reasons they want that bike!

As for Nicole she would, as does any pro, ride whatever she is sponsored to ride. It makes no difference whatsoever in terms of actual results.

ilovegadgets

Interesting discussion!

What if i throw the Orbea Onix TTG or T105 into the equation? Any of you have any experience with them?