smoking vs non smoking
Comments
-
Smokers who think second hand smoke isn't that bad, please state one toxin as posionous as nicotine you can be exposed to another way (i.e. car exhaust).
Go on, try.
If you want to say exhaust is worse, name one.
I will be really impressed if you get two.Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?0 -
cavegiant wrote:
You seem too be getting there, well done.
Why thank you, of moral guardian of bikeadar forum
cavegiant wrote:Key point is it has nothing to do with me, neither does child prostitution is Thailand, doesn't mean I should condone it.
Certainly fond of that argument aren't you? And correct, it has nothing to do with you.cavegiant wrote:My objection is obviously linked to the fact that passive smoke contains poison.
So when you are smoking in the presence of other people, i.e. outside a bar, they you are exposing them to poison.
The only people standing outside bars, in the designated smoking area frequented by smokers like myself, are generally standing there to smoke - the bar's inside - I don't realistically imagine they'd object to my filthy second hand smoke. If they do, i'd call that slightly hypocritical.cavegiant wrote:The fact that the poison has a low chance of killing someone, the chance is significant enought that it is measurable, so low enough for second rate trash to ignore, but significant enough to destroy peoples lives.
So am I clear yet?
So to spell it out very clearly, purely for patronisation as you are clearly an intelligent person (in denial):
Your smoke poisons people, that is reprehensible, though currently semi-accepted by society.
Paedophillia in Greece was socially acceptable.
As a more socially advanced society than ancient greece we now understand raping children to be wrong.
When our society is more evolved I believe we will consider smoking to be as bad as pythagos' infamous passtime.
Still doubt that. Hey ho - each to their own opinion.cavegiant wrote:You clearly understand my point, but disbelieve the fact that second hand smoke (even outside a bar) contributes towards suffering and death.
Can't find any research papers purely investigating the harmful effects of exposure to outdoor second-hand smoke, so I can't definitely say - feel free to speculate based on published works based on high levels of second-hand smoke in the home for example.cavegiant wrote:So you have two choices for enlightenment, take a course in toxicology, or just take all those scientists and doctors word for it.
Or I could just save myself the time & effort and accept your word on it - which seems to be, that my behaviour (smoking in my home & other designated smoking ares) is reprehensible. That's your opinion & one you're perfectly entitled to, however I must disagree with that, and your view that "farking" children as you so eloquently put it, will ever be retrospectively classed in the same category of moral wrongdoing as having a fag - unless of course you become omnipotent ruler of the universe, in which case i'll still be a disgusting reprehensible individual.
Good luck with the crusade, i'm off for lunch.
JModa Issimo
Genesis Volare 853
Charge Filter Apex0 -
cavegiant wrote:Smokers who think second hand smoke isn't that bad, please state one toxin as posionous as nicotine you can be exposed to another way (i.e. car exhaust).
Go on, try.
If you want to say exhaust is worse, name one.
I will be really impressed if you get two.
sure you can't see it from the height of your ivory tower, but i don't think anyone said they thought making someone else breath in their smoke was good. unless you just like arguing as some kind of compensation for something else maybe, because you seem good at it, like you get a lot of practive arguing with people. which could tell you something.
sometimes, in this life, other people do things you don't like. as adults you kinda just have to get over it.0 -
oops, my first double post. now i have to go and confess to making two posts, which has increased the server heat wherever this site is stored, warming the planet slightly and killing the children. terrible business.0
-
I'm all for smoking personally - smokers pay loads in tax, die young and (relatively) cheaply, and until they die I can easily identify a group of people too stupid to bother interacting with more than I have to.
'09 Enigma Eclipse with SRAM.
'10 Tifosi CK7 Audax Classic with assorted bits for the wet weather
'08 Boardman Hybrid Comp for the very wet weather.0 -
sometimes, in this life, other people do things you don't like. as adults you kinda just have to get over it
Yes ignore what is going on around you, shut your eyes to the atrocities and accept the murder/rape/torture that goes on in the world because you can't be bothered.
Nice to know there are lots of people willing to stand up to what they believe in.
;-)
p.s. serious question for all those people that say car exhaust is worse than smoke, name a couple of things more toxic that nicotine. I can think of a couple of poisons off the top of my head, but then again I am trained in toxicology so know about this stuff.
I just want to know if any of you blame shifters actually know anything about the harm you cause? Anyone,
I will stop slating smokers if a smoker actually can prove they know anything about toxins?Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?0 -
mcj78 wrote:
here have a cookie, now go sit in the corner and think about what you have done.Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?0 -
verloren wrote:I'm all for smoking personally - smokers pay loads in tax, die young and (relatively) cheaply, and until they die I can easily identify a group of people too stupid to bother interacting with more than I have to.
Look of people want to smoke, its up to them. but it's their right to do so. they are not 'secondary citizens' and as such do not benefit from comments such as yours made above.
If people choose to have a smoke outside a club/pub/bar restaurant that's up to them.
As long as they are not intefering with you (and don't say you have to walk past them int he street or something equally churlish [read: cross the road]) then give them a break.
they have the same right to smoke as you do not to. they are equal to you. not inferior.
die young and cheaply. WTF are you on about?0 -
I actually thought they cost the NHS more due to the debilitating diseases at their old age.
I like to stand outside pubs to get fresh air, so they are more in the way since the smoking ban.
They stink too, really badly.Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?0 -
cavegiant wrote:
p.s. serious question for all those people that say car exhaust is worse than smoke, name a couple of things more toxic that nicotine. I can think of a couple of poisons off the top of my head, but then again I am trained in toxicology so know about this stuff.
I just want to know if any of you blame shifters actually know anything about the harm you cause? Anyone,
I will stop slating smokers if a smoker actually can prove they know anything about toxins?
I can think of a couple of things more toxic than nicotine (rhubarb leaves and rhodedendrons for a start), but as a trained toxicologist, you must realise that toxicity goes hand in hand with delivery method. I can take a spoonful of castor oil (majority triglycerides are ricinolein), but make those beans into ricin and it is toxic.
nicotine can be extracted from tobacco and reduced to concentrate, whereby it is a very serious toxin (and incidentally very difficult to trace in smokers especially)....but your argument does not discuss the fact that what you breathe in is nowhere near as concentrated as this.
And after all this....even water is toxic if the dose is big enough.
therefor I claim my five poundsWhenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
cavegiant wrote:p.s. serious question for all those people that say car exhaust is worse than smoke, name a couple of things more toxic that nicotine.
How about....
DDT
aldrin
hexachlorobenzene
toxaphene
dieldrin
Would you like more?0 -
Cat With No Tail wrote:
How about....
DDT
aldrin
hexachlorobenzene
toxaphene
dieldrin
Would you like more?
add codeine to that list...and doctors give you prescriptions for that!Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
double post0
-
cavegiant wrote:I actually thought they cost the NHS more due to the debilitating diseases at their old age.
I like to stand outside pubs to get fresh air, so they are more in the way since the smoking ban.
They stink too, really badly.
Mate you seem to be full of shit.
How is it on your world, you should come down to earth once in a while. Oh you can't because apparently it revolves around you.
YOU want to get fresh air in a pub? You've already driven the smokers away. So they should stop smoking outside because YOU (again) want to get fresh air.
I smoke. Not inside buildings, in front of children nor do I smoke around dinner tables. You could say that I am a 'considerate' smoker. I respect the fact that some people don't like it. But people like you make my blood boil.
If you don't want to smoke, then don't. Just leave people alone that do, and don't treat people like 2nd class citizens.
The government will never ban smoking altogether, its far too much money for them, and the breweries know that the a high percentage of drinkers smoke too, so they will never ban it from outside their establishments. Couple that with dwindling profits due to economical climate (pubs not doing too well) they are catering more for smokers than ever before. It will always be outside, but people like you want it all.0 -
cavegiant wrote:I actually thought they cost the NHS more due to the debilitating diseases at their old age.
About half die before they get to the most expensive stages in life (taking the benefits they've earned, social care, and all manner of NHS services), which outweighs the expensiveness of their deaths. And even those that do make it into old age still tend to die younger and cheaper than they otherwise would.
As to The Big Cheese's comment, please remind me where I said they didn't have the right to smoke, or that they were secondary citizens, or that they're inferior. I think none of those things.
'09 Enigma Eclipse with SRAM.
'10 Tifosi CK7 Audax Classic with assorted bits for the wet weather
'08 Boardman Hybrid Comp for the very wet weather.0 -
sometimes, in this life, other people do things you don't like. as adults you kinda just have to get over it
Yes ignore what is going on around you, shut your eyes to the atrocities and accept the murder/rape/torture that goes on in the world because you can't be bothered.
Nice to know there are lots of people willing to stand up to what they believe in.
;-)
proof, if proof be needed, you are terrible at communicating, rationalising and having a sense of proportion. you work at a university or something, or never get back to those halcyon days when arguments like this gave you some kind of campus kudos?
to be honest fella, you've missed the point so often there's no point in discussing anything with you really. consider it winning, if it make you happy.0 -
sorry it was cavegiant who said such a thing. twat.0
-
who? me?0
-
Corrected. Members and posts muddled up.0
-
Cant stand inhaling other peoples smoke its so stinkypoo! So I move away and only when I cant move away do I get annoyed and say something.
To be honest when outside of say a pub drinking with others 99% of the smokers (even when pretty plastered) are very concious of them smoking and make sure they exhale away/upwards from others.
The smoking ban has done enough and nothing further needs to be done.
Why we getting all worked up, lets all hug.0 -
Cat With No Tail wrote:
How about....
DDT
aldrin
hexachlorobenzene
toxaphene
dieldrin
Would you like more?
Give the man a bananna!
A nice list of compounds less toxic than nicotine, bravo for trying.Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?0 -
cavegiant wrote:People who smoke in public are evil second rate trash
You sir, need to think about that, I wouldn't be too impressed if I heard you saying that especially outside in the designated smoking area for YOUR comfort and satisfaction.
It's one thing to disagree, another to post such ludicrous s1it like that you troll.
What do you want it all? No smoking anywhere because YOU find it unpleasant. I don't remember it being an Orwellian state, and heaven forbid it ever becomes so.0 -
Ok,
Mercury
Polonium
Botox (I forget it's chemical name, but is it not the most toxic substance know to man)
VX0 -
mercury - more toxic
Polonium - you might win on this one
Botox- botulinium something or other, yep more toxic, serious stuff that.
VX - amazingly enough no, nicotine is more toxic.
However if the third & fourth are in your exhaust I would be concerned.Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?0 -
cavegiant wrote:
here have a cookie, now go sit in the corner and think about what you have done.
I know - ruined modern society with my terrible habit which, according to you, will one day be viewed as bad as paedophilia. Shame on me. I feel terrible. Just back from the shops incidentally - walked past a guy having a cigarette & probably now have cancer, bet you think it would serve me right too. Ahh go on, admit it, I don't mind.
Incidentally did you ever find that paper linking outdoor exposure to cigarette smoke and subsequent harmful effects? No, why not go & write one? I'm sure with your insurmountable toxicology knowledge you'll do it in about 5 minutes - look up there, i've even given you a working title. Or maybe you didn't think anyone else on here knew anything about that particular subject, cee & catwithnotail seem to have a basic handle on it - there are plenty of things more harmful than nicotine & by dose there are probably more harmful things in cigarettes than it too. Maybe you could give us a head start & list the several thousand toxic chemicals (wow, i'm getting my money's worth) found in cigarette smoke, in alphabetical order & include the LD50/30 for rat/mouse/guinea pig where known - just so we can compare them all? 10 minutes you say, lovely.
On another note - i'm off on holiday tomorrow & i'm bringing back several hundred lovely cigarettes - the UK government won't get any tax from that & i'll enjoy them all the more knowing it'll annoy you.Moda Issimo
Genesis Volare 853
Charge Filter Apex0 -
Oh and for banannaman
Hexachlorobenzene is nasty toxic cancer inducing crap, probably appears in cigarete smoke and has a lethal dose hundreds of times higher than nicotine.Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?0 -
"there are plenty of things more harmful than nicotine & by dose there are probably more harmful things in cigarettes than it too"
go on, put your brain behind your mouth and have a guess.
My toxicological knowledge is pretty weak, but even so I can make you look stupid, not that you need help, people can probably smell your ignorance (smokers smell).Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?0 -
cavegiant wrote:mercury - more toxic
Polonium - you might win on this one
Botox- botulinium something or other, yep more toxic, serious stuff that.
VX - amazingly enough no, nicotine is more toxic.
However if the third & fourth are in your exhaust I would be concerned.
I looked it up, and the LD of VX is (estimated) 0.0023 mg/kg
Compared with Nicotine at 0.5-1.0 mg/kg0
