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Tubeless....whats that all about?

saracen fansaracen fan Posts: 389
edited March 2010 in MTB buying advice
I have searched the forums and looked in FAQs but couldnt find the answer im looking for so I apologise if its been discussed before!

few things I want to know:
1) What is the advantages of tubeless?
2) does it weigh more running tubless?
3) how would I go about moving on to tubeless?

My riding is monday to friday commuting to work on road and weekends round thetford forest, I do plan however to check out places like glentress ect....

also on another note (didnt wanna make 2 threads) what do you think about Kenda small block 8's? I like the look of them.....?
Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


Saracen Trace 1

Posts

  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Go to a website called Just Riding Along - all explained nicely there.
  • just checked it out.....from what I gather its mainly less weight and punchtures?

    im unsure weather it would benefit me, ive been getting loads of punchtures lately, but that may be down to the MK's I have fitted (I hear there prone to punchtures)
    If I fitted Kenda small block 8's (which I hear are great) could I run them tubeless?
    Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


    Saracen Trace 1
  • :oops: cheers SS

    im still unsure at this stage, it sounds good esp less punchtures! I want new wheels and tyres this year so am trying to decide if I should just go tubeless while im at it.

    What i dont want is something that is going to require alot of time to keep working at an optimum, like topping up sealent ect, when at least with a tube I can pump it up and forget about it.
    are tubeless systems a pain in the censored to keep running or are they ok?
    the problem is I dont know anyone running tubeless so cant compare.....?
    Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


    Saracen Trace 1
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    are tubeless systems a pain in the ars* to keep running or are they ok?

    I've never had to touch the tyres on my Soul since I fitted them and tubelessised them. If that's a word. Which it probably isn't. But that's with proper tubeless rims, which makes things easier. I did a tubeless conversion with BMX tubes on 717 rims and it was a lot more hassle, and also heavier than tubes, though it still worked well on the trails.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • hmmmm. so if im gonna do it get proper rims for the job?

    wanted to get kenda small block 8's for my next tyres. anyone got experience with these?

    thanks for the info so far 8)
    Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


    Saracen Trace 1
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    hmmmm. so if im gonna do it get proper rims for the job?

    wanted to get kenda small block 8's for my next tyres. anyone got experience with these?

    Well... That's what I'd say anyway, but not everyone would agree. I'll not bother with conversions again though, it'll be proper tubeless rims or nothing but that's just me.

    Small Blocks work well. Can take a while to seal the first time you add sealant, they seem to be a wee bit porous. Getting the SWS versions would be a good idea i think, the lack of side knobs means the sidewall's a wee bit exposed. Great tyres though.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • warrerjwarrerj Posts: 665
    I've always fnd Kenda tyres to be quite good bt let down by very thin side walls. Riding in South Wales and other rocky places means they suffer from a lot of slashes. I swapped to MK's and have onyl had 2 punctures in 2.5 years (1 was a pinch from BIG heavy landing as I have a over active pie arm ;-), the other was a thorn).

    But thats just my experience.
  • MK has given me about 4 punchtures in 5 months which is annoying!
    the kendas look like they roll fast which is what I want as I ride road alot.....

    im thinking I may as well go tubeless, looked at crc for custom wheels, I would go for the XT hub ones....problem is I dunno what rims are tubeless compatible, and what ones would be best for me? im 16stone and hammer my bike.....
    I choose mavic xm717 but that was really just a guess!
    (havent brought them just wanted price)
    help! :?
    Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


    Saracen Trace 1
  • I've tried the whole 'ghetto tubeless' setup (i.e. doing it with an inner tube rather than a specific kit) as I just couldn't justify spending so much on an 'official' conversion kit when I didn't know if it would be 'better'.

    Found it pretty easy to do (the forums on here have loads of links to useful sites, plus there's youtube...) and so far so good (1 month in)! Only cost me £15 to give it a go and may be worth a punt rather than spending £100 on rims/tyres/kits... Remember to factor in extras though - you ideally need a track pump, and not all tubeless rims come with all the bits to run them as tubeless for example...

    Of course if you are looking for a reason to spend the money go right ahead :lol:


    James
  • cheers jim!
    I will check out the ghetto way, but will prob buy wheels as i was planning on changing my cheapo factory wheels anyway.....stupid things weigh a ton and keep going out of true!

    forgive my ignorence but how is it tubeless if you still use a tube? :?
    Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


    Saracen Trace 1
  • Hi Saracen,

    I converted my fctory wheels DT Swiss x445 rims to tubeless using stans rim strips and sealant. The wheels have since buckled but I am now running Fulcrum Red Metal 5's with the same setup.

    The biggest benefits for us big guys, I am about 16 stone too, are that you cannot pinch flat at low pressures so you can run your tyre pressures a lot lower typically about 1/2 of hat you used to run. This allows the tyres to deform more over obstacles which means less sidewall cuts. Lower resistance over stones and rocks offroad and more comfort.

    I check my tyres every day before I ride, but they hardly lose any pressure. I have not had a puncture in 6 months of using them on some fairly serious trails in South Africa. Best of all there are tubeless repair kits that allow you to insert a rubber plug into larger holes and they still seal using the latex.

    I still carry one tube just in case I get an unrepairable puncture or sidewall cut but as stated before the lower pressure allows the tyre to deform more so even that becomes less likely.

    If you are buying new wheels I would recommend you look at Fulcrum wheels, the 5's need a tubeless kit like stans but the rest are tubeless rims. They are strong. light and seem to seal very well.

    There you go, my 2 cents. Tubeless has been the single biggest upgrade on my bike and worth every cent.
  • pbrizzolari

    thanks for your comments, thats very helpfull for me!

    funnily enough I was looking at these http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=42568 teamed up with Kenda small block 8 tyres....what ya reckon?
    Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


    Saracen Trace 1
  • if I got these= http://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/product/112746.html

    would i still need a kit?

    I would get those with these wheels= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=42568
    Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


    Saracen Trace 1
  • M6TTFM6TTF Posts: 602
    ghetto conversion for me as I want new wheels later on this year and didn't want to shell out for a kit at the moment. I couldn't be bothered with the faff of splitting a tube (more mess to deal with should you puncture out on the trail and need to tube it) so I went for the gaffa tape method. - twice round with tape and a tubeless valve, mud -x tyres on and inflated first time with my track pump. No punctures since and I used to flat almost every week!
  • XCMarkXCMark Posts: 55
    I'm running these http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/mountain-and-road-bike-wheels/factory-mountain-bike-wheels/shimano-xt-775-disc-wheels.html with UST conti race kings and can't fault them. Been running them as low as 20 psi in the snow with no problems at all and they were dead easy to set up, just put the tire on the rim, pump it up and ride off. I was expecting to have problems getting them to work but i couldn't be happier with them.
  • Hi Saracen,

    those are this years model of the wheels I have. They work awesomely. the only suggestion I have is that if your budget stretches to it maybe have a look at the 3's because they are properly ust.

    They are very strong wheels which handle some very rocky descents with me onboard with no issues at all. Highly recommended. ;)
  • You will soon ruin your mtb tyres on the road. Why not put some Puncture resistant slicks on your existing wheels and keep the new set for weekend best.
  • Saracen fan,

    My wheel is 'ghetto tubeless' which means I took a 20" BMX innertube and put it on the rim, before cutting it open and turning it into the rim strip (you then mount the tyre and trim the excess off). There is no inflated tube within my wheel so it is 'tubeless' - the tyre is all that is inflated.

    Here's a website which may make things clearer:

    http://www.tubelesswheels.com/tubeless.html

    Goes through the available kits as well so is well worth a browse if you're considering it...


    James
  • SarnianSarnian Posts: 1,451
    M6TTF wrote:
    ghetto conversion for me as I want new wheels later on this year and didn't want to shell out for a kit at the moment. I couldn't be bothered with the faff of splitting a tube (more mess to deal with should you puncture out on the trail and need to tube it) so I went for the gaffa tape method. - twice round with tape and a tubeless valve, mud -x tyres on and inflated first time with my track pump. No punctures since and I used to flat almost every week!

    I have been using the ghetto conversion on 2 of my bikes now for about 9 month with great success, but It Is a bit of a pain when changing tyres as you have to start from scratch again and do all that trimming of the tube stuff. How does the gaffa tape way work then sound less hassle and cheaper.
    It's not a ornament, so ride It
  • I was tubeless for a while using the DT Swiss kit on my 5.1 rims which worked really well. However after the 3rd set of Maxxis had sliced up sidewalls making them unrideable on our local chalk/flint bridleways I have had to go back to tubes with 50ml of latex to stop the thorn strikes.
  • You will soon ruin your mtb tyres on the road. Why not put some Puncture resistant slicks on your existing wheels and keep the new set for weekend best.

    this has me worried! do mtb tyres wear out quicker on the road?
    have noticed my MK rear ture is quite worn after only 6months of use.....dont wanna spend £60 on ust tyres if im gonna wear them out quick!

    maybe I should have road tyres on my current set and have the tubeless set up on new rims for the trails?
    Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


    Saracen Trace 1
  • myopicmyopic Posts: 692
    One thing I don't get about tubeless is that they are popular with people who got a lot of pinch flats and you can run your tyres at lower pressures - but doesn't this increase the chances of putting a sizeable ding in your rim? (no double entendre intended :lol: )
    You don't need eyes to see, you need vision
  • M6TTFM6TTF Posts: 602
    Sarnian wrote:
    M6TTF wrote:
    ghetto conversion for me as I want new wheels later on this year and didn't want to shell out for a kit at the moment. I couldn't be bothered with the faff of splitting a tube (more mess to deal with should you puncture out on the trail and need to tube it) so I went for the gaffa tape method. - twice round with tape and a tubeless valve, mud -x tyres on and inflated first time with my track pump. No punctures since and I used to flat almost every week!

    I have been using the ghetto conversion on 2 of my bikes now for about 9 month with great success, but It Is a bit of a pain when changing tyres as you have to start from scratch again and do all that trimming of the tube stuff. How does the gaffa tape way work then sound less hassle and cheaper.

    check it out here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UeO8Utfny0
  • bails87bails87 Posts: 12,998
    myopic wrote:
    One thing I don't get about tubeless is that they are popular with people who got a lot of pinch flats and you can run your tyres at lower pressures - but doesn't this increase the chances of putting a sizeable ding in your rim? (no double entendre intended :lol: )

    You can, you don't have to. I went tubeless because of thorn type punctures, I pulled an inch long 'industrial' staple out of my tyre after a ride the other day :shock:

    Sealed with no problems. 8)
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • Dirtydog11Dirtydog11 Posts: 1,621
    myopic wrote:
    One thing I don't get about tubeless is that they are popular with people who got a lot of pinch flats and you can run your tyres at lower pressures - but doesn't this increase the chances of putting a sizeable ding in your rim? (no double entendre intended :lol: )

    What we have done is traded one problem for another.

    Pinch flats are a thing of the past. We have new phenomenon, burping.

    All the above can be avoided, including dented rims by running the correct pressures for your weight riding style.

    Unfortunately wheel/tyre technology doesn't compensate for poor basic setup.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    myopic wrote:
    but doesn't this increase the chances of putting a sizeable ding in your rim? (no double entendre intended :lol: )

    it does. Funny, there was a thread on this on STW a while back, someone griping that his 819s were much less tough than his 317s because the rims were all dented, after a while someone figured out he was running 40psi in the 317s and 20 in the 819s! So no wonder.

    I run the exact same pressures tubed or tubeless, most of the time, for me it's the punctureproofing and the light weight I like. I've hardly ever had a pinch flat though,but then I weigh 10 stone.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • saracen fansaracen fan Posts: 389
    thanks guys,
    northwind, I like you would just be doing it for puncture proofing, for the meantime budget does not allow this.

    I have fitted some michelin XC hard terrains today and have to say they are brilliant tyres, and feel much tougher than my old wirebead MK's.

    Maybe some sealent in the tubes for now would cure my problem?
    also what about those strips you can get that go between the tyre and tube? are they good or a crock of censored ?

    cheers 8)
    Unlike my credit card im currently carrying a low level of interest- Peter Griffin


    Saracen Trace 1
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