Pettiness in the peloton

BdeB

You do wonder just how precious some of the pro riders are (or maybe it is the DS who give the orders who are petty). First sky are blamed by other teams when the winning break got away in Qatar for not following the 'unwritten rule' that the leader's team does the chasing. Now when sky has the leader it doesn't matter breaking another 'unwritten rule' not to attack when the leader is peeing. They are very precious about how things should or shouldn't be done when they don't benefit but when they do anything goes. Personally i want sky to do as well as they can but for me do away with 'unwritten rules' and just race.

calvjones

BdeB wrote:

You do wonder just how precious some of the pro riders are (or maybe it is the DS who give the orders who are petty). First sky are blamed by other teams when the winning break got away in Qatar for not following the 'unwritten rule' that the leader's team does the chasing. Now when sky has the leader it doesn't matter breaking another 'unwritten rule' not to attack when the leader is peeing. They are very precious about how things should or shouldn't be done when they don't benefit but when they do anything goes. Personally i want sky to do as well as they can but for me do away with 'unwritten rules' and just race.

Put 200 men together day in day out and they'll unavoidably regress to early adolescence.

dennisn

calvjones wrote:

BdeB wrote:

You do wonder just how precious some of the pro riders are (or maybe it is the DS who give the orders who are petty). First sky are blamed by other teams when the winning break got away in Qatar for not following the 'unwritten rule' that the leader's team does the chasing. Now when sky has the leader it doesn't matter breaking another 'unwritten rule' not to attack when the leader is peeing. They are very precious about how things should or shouldn't be done when they don't benefit but when they do anything goes. Personally i want sky to do as well as they can but for me do away with 'unwritten rules' and just race.

Put 200 men together day in day out and they'll unavoidably regress to early adolescence.

You're wrong. You don't need anywhere near 200.

lucybears

BdeB wrote:

You do wonder just how precious some of the pro riders are (or maybe it is the DS who give the orders who are petty). First sky are blamed by other teams when the winning break got away in Qatar for not following the 'unwritten rule' that the leader's team does the chasing. Now when sky has the leader it doesn't matter breaking another 'unwritten rule' not to attack when the leader is peeing. They are very precious about how things should or shouldn't be done when they don't benefit but when they do anything goes. Personally i want sky to do as well as they can but for me do away with 'unwritten rules' and just race.

Well, you got part of your wish. The other teams reckoned that if Sky wants to play it that way, they will do away with 'unwritten rules' , and stuff Sky. But if you want Sky to do as well as they can, then they are shooting themselves in the foot.....maybe they shouldn't have started off the season by poaching riders under contract to other teams.....

Tusher

Oh dear, I read that as 'prettiness in the peloton'.

BdeB

yeah they are getting whats coming to them so that ok. i find it depressing that so many people wnat Sky to fail. it takes a certain type of person to relish the misfortune of others rather than celebrate some positive. Surely the best way to get back at Sky would be to stuff them fair and square in a race and not have to resort to sneaky moves. Maybe the other teams are jealous of the win total that Sky is already racking up.

iainf72

BdeB wrote:

Maybe the other teams are jealous of the win total that Sky is already racking up.

If that's true, why aren't teams miffed at FdJ?

Brailsford says things like "I dont' care if we upset people" etc etc. Well, you need people Dave and you are learning this lesson. If teams don't like Sky, it's not because of something like jealousy.

Team Banana Spokesman

where did brailsford say that?

iainf72

Team Banana Spokesman wrote:

where did brailsford say that?

I paraphrased somewhat

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 952526.ece

Yet when Dave Brailsford, who has led the pursuit of Wiggins for Team Sky, was accused yesterday of courting unpopularity with teams on the Continent by taking a hostile approach to acquiring his riders of choice, he replied calmly: “I’m here to compete.

“If it’s a choice of having Bradley Wiggins on the team and keeping European teams happy, I’ll have Bradley Wiggins every time.”

calvjones

dennisn wrote:

calvjones wrote:

BdeB wrote:

You do wonder just how precious some of the pro riders are (or maybe it is the DS who give the orders who are petty). First sky are blamed by other teams when the winning break got away in Qatar for not following the 'unwritten rule' that the leader's team does the chasing. Now when sky has the leader it doesn't matter breaking another 'unwritten rule' not to attack when the leader is peeing. They are very precious about how things should or shouldn't be done when they don't benefit but when they do anything goes. Personally i want sky to do as well as they can but for me do away with 'unwritten rules' and just race.

Put 200 men together day in day out and they'll unavoidably regress to early adolescence.

You're wrong. You don't need anywhere near 200.

True. I worked in a factory for a while where someone actually sh@t in a colleague's work boot in the hope he'd put it on PM without noticing. Oscar Wilde would have been proud*







* I did laugh my ass off at the time but hey, I was young.

iainf72

From the cyclingnews report - Sounds like Sky got punished for being tools.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/1st-to ... -4/results

The two climbs in the foothills of the Jabal Akhdar mountains and the hot conditions for the 187km stage were expected to shape the racing but it seems the arguments about race leadership responsibility was the spark that blew the stage apart and ultimately cost Boasson Hagen and Team Sky any chance of overall victory.

According to numerous riders and directeur sportifs Cyclingnews talked to after the stage, events escalated during the stage.

Team Sky riders let a six-rider break gain almost seven minutes in the first hour and then were angry when no other teams were willing to help them chase the break.

Several riders claimed that the Team Sky riders vented their anger on the peloton by blasting through the feed zone and then put the peloton in the gutter by riding a half-road echelon when the wind changed direction.

That especially angered the Cervelo Test Team, who retaliated by splitting the race when Boasson Hagen stopped for a leak 55km from the finish. Because he was race leader, Boasson Hagen had perhaps thought the peloton would wait for him, but in the heat of battle, nobody did and 41 riders group quickly formed an echelon and accelerated up the road.

Team Banana Spokesman

SPOILER FFS

:roll:

fungus_the_muffin_man

Does this mean I can now read the tour of oman stage 4 spolier thread I was staying away from until I get chance to watch it

bobtbuilder

BdeB wrote:

yeah they are getting whats coming to them so that ok. i find it depressing that so many people wnat Sky to fail. it takes a certain type of person to relish the misfortune of others rather than celebrate some positive. Surely the best way to get back at Sky would be to stuff them fair and square in a race and not have to resort to sneaky moves. Maybe the other teams are jealous of the win total that Sky is already racking up.

I want them to fail because of their abysmal attitude to poacjing other teams' riders.

It's a bit hypocritical to ask for teams to try and beat Sky "fair and square" when Sky's behaviour pre-season was anything but "fair and square".

pedro118118

Interesting stuff this.

I think Dave Brailsford has had a short sharp shock in terms of the realities of elite racing on the road. Bottom line is, winning/being a success is impacted heavily by factors outside of any rider/team's control. Whilst these elements can be minimised, they can't be eradicated.

This goes against the grain of British Cycling's approach to the track, where they are in control of their own destiny to a large extent. Best equipment, best training methods, best support = success all other things being equal. This is straightforward in events against the clock (TTs, pursuits etc) and small fields (track sprint events, keirin etc). BC have never been as dominant in the mass field events such as Points, Scratch or Madison races, where the tactics have far more influence on the outcome of the race.

Sky have a lot of work to do, but t'was ever thus.
I beleive (and hope) they get there, but it is a little worrying that they seem to be gaining enemies within the pack at an alarming rate.

BdeB

Bobtbuilder. What it is not is hypocritical. Sky might not have played fair with their recruitment and so teams can be justified in complaining. What is hypocritical is for teams to say Sky didn't play fair and square and then not play fair and square themselves. If teams want to take the high ground with sky then the best thing would be to beat sky out and out without any charges of not playing fair. Hypocrisy is exactly that, accusing someone of wrongdoing and then doing wrong yourself.

dulldave

BdeB wrote:

Bobtbuilder. What it is not is hypocritical. Sky might not have played fair with their recruitment and so teams can be justified in complaining. What is hypocritical is for teams to say Sky didn't play fair and square and then not play fair and square themselves. If teams want to take the high ground with sky then the best thing would be to beat sky out and out without any charges of not playing fair. Hypocrisy is exactly that, accusing someone of wrongdoing and then doing wrong yourself.

Yeah so the other teams can just let the race pass them by and tell their sponsors that they may not have won anything, but they claimed the moral victory. I'm sure their sponsors will go for that.

These unwritten rules are preserved because they are observed by all. When one team starts flaunting them then they collapse.

Dazza2280

hmmm seems like sky have a few bridges to build, maybe they should just get their heads down, and put in some serious work, start chasing down every break, and leading from the front, might be difficult for a couple of months but if they don't start making friends they'll get dropped again in France (if they're invited). Think Brailsford has found out the hard way the difference between road and track riding. you don't need to depend on others in a 200m sprint

simon_e

iainf72 wrote:

According to numerous riders and directeur sportifs Cyclingnews talked to after the stage.....

I wonder how many teams spoke honestly to CN and how many just wanted to put their oar in. And of course it takes two to Tango - retaliating isn't in the spirit of the game either.

I think this fuss about Sky poaching riders is making a mountain out of a molehill. Riders leave teams, teams pursue riders - even ones still under contract. Was Sky's tactic really so different from what normally happens? I don't know. I cannot be pro or anti Sky, I just want to see Sky's riders ride to their potential. If that brings success then I'm sure they will have deserved it.

On the subject of men being tools in a crowd, I think you'll find it's the ones that are susceptible to the 'herd' mentality are most likely to condone bullying, form cliques and so on. Although it's a generalisation, from experience in an office environment I find women more unpleasant to each other (though not to men), especially those for whom a little power goes to the head.

RichN95.

As has been mentioned, sportsmen are really just big kids and in this respect Sky are like the new kid at school. This kid's a bit cocky, says how his dad is in the SAS and how he's got a better bike and three X Boxes. So the other kids beat him up a bit, he gets less cocky and then everyone gets along and they go and find a different kid to bully.