Cycling vs car advertising
MadammeMarie
Posts: 621
Finally! Finally, finally finally!!! I lost count of the conversations I had with other cyclists about advertising the bicycle as THE OBJECT OF DESIRE (yes, I know how it sounds, but I studied advertising, ok?) as the major change we need! The rest can work itself out with proper policies. I never understood why, while watching the Tour de France on ITV4, all the ads are about cars, not bicycles!
When I was doing my Journalism degree, a Spanish ad executive invited to our school said that if it wasn't for advertising, Coca Cola would be a disgusting brown liquid that nobody would drink!
What do you think?
Discuss.....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2010/feb/17/cycling-advertising-cars
When I was doing my Journalism degree, a Spanish ad executive invited to our school said that if it wasn't for advertising, Coca Cola would be a disgusting brown liquid that nobody would drink!
What do you think?
Discuss.....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2010/feb/17/cycling-advertising-cars
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Comments
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Interesting point and I certainly agree.
However you have to look at whether advertising panders to the needs of the population or is it that the population is driven by advertising? My answer to this is that with people driving long distances to work every day (hence the Motorways being full at 7-8am) there is consumer demand for cars, therefore the industry provides greater consumer choice.
Let's look at another scenario. If everybody had to cycle, surely the cycling industry would have to give greater choice and would become more competitive?
Also when we read bike brochures or look at manufacturers websites, bikes are advertised as an 'object of desire' already.0 -
Advertising can sell anything. Corporations have a bigger agenda than mere profit - although profit is the bottom line - many have social and political agendas too.
Advertising is often used to sell those ideas too - usually very conservative - family orientated, until quite recently racist, still quite sexist, anti-intellectual, trivialising political activism etc. I believe most corporations would be anti cycling as a popular activity as it challeneges the politcal status quo - the oil based economy. What people can curt themselves off from the corporate teat and still have personal mobility, and be healthier, and happier, and wealthier too? No way!!
The psychologist BF Skinner gave up his work in psychology to move into advertising and made a fortune. If advertising didn;t mould people's minds and plant ideas, views etc. why would it be so ubiquitous? why would it be the most important element of large corporations' strategies?
I think people rail against the idea because they hate the fact that at heart humans are biological mechanisms that can be easily manipulated. It's upsetting to realise that nothing you ever thought of was an original idea, nothing you ever did was due to free will.
still - just rambling. I'm very interested in this area, but have not had a lot of time to devote to it.0 -
Regardless of weather or not it would increase cycling, the lack of cycling adverts on TV means that if one manufacturer got in first, they could possibly capitalize big time as they would be one step ahead of the competition.
Someone who knows nothing about bikes would have one manufacturer's name in their head and not the others. That's what proper advertising is all about. Someone better get in there quick. It costs a lot of money to put adverts on tv, however.0 -
Porgy wrote:Advertising can sell anything.
like - Ugg boots, celebrity work out DVDs and Jedward?0 -
Darth Biker wrote:Porgy wrote:Advertising can sell anything.
like - Ugg boots, celebrity work out DVDs and Jedward?
I've seen a mountain of crap marketted heavily over the years. I started to wean myself of the consumerist treadmill sometime in the 90s once I convinced myself that my needs will never be satisfied by buying uselss crap. But take a look in any charity shop to see that there's a lot of people that still need to learn that lesson.0 -
I don't think the number of cycle journeys is lower here than in other, mostly Northern, European countries because of car advertising. It's more to do with car-centred road design and driver training that makes cycling fear inducing. To increase the number of bike journeys you have to persuade the person who probably already has a bike lying virtually unused in the shed to get on it and go out onto the roads and face the danger (often more of a perceived danger than a genuine danger). If you're used to sitting strapped into an armchair surrounded by a protective metal box whenever you go out, you're going to feel very naked out there on 2 wheels. So the bike stays rusting in the shed and the seatbelt goes on.0
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Cars are marketed as lifestyle and status, instant gratification delivered to anyone who has a licence and access to the cash.
For £n thousand pounds you can drive up the Stelvio Pass in a machine that says (even if only to you) that you are rich, successful, young, playful and fertile.
You can't do that with a bike, because the gratification is not instant, it requires effort and discipline.
For £n thousand pounds, you can squeeze your lardy body into some replica team kit, swing your leg over the most beautiful carbon fibre paperclip of a racing bike that money can buy, but you'll still never get it up the Stelvio without looking (and feeling) old, foolish and knackered!0 -
Pneumatic - My mum once said that I need to stop spending money on bikes and buy a car, in the same conversation my girlfriend said I had great legs. On that note a nice bike and training = ''rich, successful, young, playful and fertile'' (then again how can we not look fertile in lycra shorts on a warm day
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pneumatic wrote:
For £n thousand pounds, you can squeeze your lardy body into some replica team kit, swing your leg over the most beautiful carbon fibre paperclip of a racing bike that money can buy, but you'll still never get it up the Stelvio without looking (and feeling) old, foolish and knackered!
Why are you taking a pop at /fat/ people who have the cash to spend on such like?
Tbh I dont see many that do... but if they did get out of their cars and onto bikes, I'd say 'fair does mate'0 -
Darth Biker wrote:Pneumatic - My mum once said that I need to stop spending money on bikes and buy a car, in the same conversation my girlfriend said I had great legs. On that note a nice bike and training = ''rich, successful, young, playful and fertile'' (then again how can we not look fertile in lycra shorts on a warm day
Sorry, but to a lot of people: nice bike='a push bike'=can't afford a car. 0 -
bails87 wrote:Darth Biker wrote:Pneumatic - My mum once said that I need to stop spending money on bikes and buy a car, in the same conversation my girlfriend said I had great legs. On that note a nice bike and training = ''rich, successful, young, playful and fertile'' (then again how can we not look fertile in lycra shorts on a warm day
Sorry, but to a lot of people: nice bike='a push bike'=can't afford a car.
True, uneducated oiks! then again it is the same as any sport, to me I can't really Identify a good skateboard, tennis racket or football at a glance.0 -
JGSI wrote:pneumatic wrote:
For £n thousand pounds, you can squeeze your lardy body into some replica team kit, swing your leg over the most beautiful carbon fibre paperclip of a racing bike that money can buy, but you'll still never get it up the Stelvio without looking (and feeling) old, foolish and knackered!
Why are you taking a pop at /fat/ people who have the cash to spend on such like?
Tbh I dont see many that do... but if they did get out of their cars and onto bikes, I'd say 'fair does mate'
Actually, I was speaking from experience!!
However, the point is this: most advertising promises you instant gratification for cash. I can't think of many examples of the genre that offer incremental gratification for effort.
Deodorant = sex, Yoghurt = health, Alcohol = friends, Car = status, charity = virtue, ISA = mediteranean cruises to look forward to, etc...
The story of getting off your butt, buying a bike, doing a lot of miles, entering sportives, losing two stone and, one day, finding yourself leaning on your bike at the top of the Ventoux is just too complicated for a poster, a magazine page or a 20 second TV slot.0 -
JGSI wrote:pneumatic wrote:
For £n thousand pounds, you can squeeze your lardy body into some replica team kit, swing your leg over the most beautiful carbon fibre paperclip of a racing bike that money can buy, but you'll still never get it up the Stelvio without looking (and feeling) old, foolish and knackered!
Why are you taking a pop at /fat/ people who have the cash to spend on such like?
Tbh I dont see many that do... but if they did get out of their cars and onto bikes, I'd say 'fair does mate'
there's quite a few fat blokes posting on this forum. this particular fat bloke has been cycling for nearly 40 years. I'm no less a cyclist for being fat though - currently doing 600 miles a month.
I always cringe when I hear cyclists have a pop at "fat" drivers....which is what I would be if I got behind the wheel.0 -
pneumatic wrote:The story of getting off your butt, buying a bike, doing a lot of miles, entering sportives, losing two stone and, one day, finding yourself leaning on your bike at the top of the Ventoux is just too complicated for a poster, a magazine page or a 20 second TV slot.
You don't need all that in an advert to sell a bike, just some footage of someone cruising down an epic descent or whizzing round some country lanes when it's sunny and there's a tailwind to show minimal effort at speed.0 -
Porgy wrote:there's quite a few fat blokes posting on this forum.
At 15 stone 8, I'm not exactly Twiggy myself!
By lardy, I just meant unfit, but I seem to have opened a tub of worms! :oops:0 -
The article seems to suggest that the government should ban car advertising, just as it has banned tobacco ads but why would the government do that? Just a year ago they formulated the car scrappage scheme to encourage people to buy new cars and therefore support the collapsing car industry. Seems a little hypocritical to encourage people to buy cars 1 year and then ban car advertising the next!Do not write below this line. Office use only.0
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Bhima wrote:pneumatic wrote:The story of getting off your butt, buying a bike, doing a lot of miles, entering sportives, losing two stone and, one day, finding yourself leaning on your bike at the top of the Ventoux is just too complicated for a poster, a magazine page or a 20 second TV slot.
You don't need all that in an advert to sell a bike, just some footage of someone cruising down an epic descent or whizzing round some country lanes when it's sunny and there's a tailwind to show minimal effort at speed.
All the daily Mail readers will kick their tellies in :shock:0 -
why would it be the most important element of large corporations' strategies?
Hmmm I see where you're coming from but I think the most important element is identifying the largest exploitable market opportunity i.e. where can most money be made and then comes in identifying the profile of the group and then the advertising.
In the case of cars and bikes - Cars will always be more lucrative than bikes - Mass manufacturing of the car will make more per unit and probably a bigger margin than a bike, sadly. Coupled with the population's predisposition to being lazy and comfortable and bikes don't get a look in. You can lead a horse to water.....
Only when the relative cost of production goes up and cars become more expensive in real-terms (not just relatively) and the cost of running one goes up will people be forced to switch. Bikes, tyres, lube etc will also go up, however not by anywhere near as much.
It is upsetting as i'm sure everyone of us on this forum would go out of our way to help the transition from cars to bikes - Conduct workshops at work, help people with their routes to work and so on.
The key advertising message that would come from a bike advert would be that it is aspirational to cycle - An advert displaying ripped, toned sprinter thighs, six-packs, sexual elements and the 'rebellious' feel that goes with the independent, self-reliance of cycling.
Coupled with a further mix of features in heat magazine, primetime TV shows showing the positive rise and benefits as well as the targeting of drivers as has been mentioned akin to the smoking/binge drinking thing.
Unfortunately as a nation of commuters who live miles from work the UK has a bigger hump to overcome than most.What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
simonaspinall wrote:
An advert displaying ripped, toned sprinter thighs, six-packs....
Would that not make it look like something for super fit athletes to do.
There are plenty of people on here who I'm sure don't look like that, myself included. I think it needs to be encouraged as a 'past time' and a convenient form of transport, rather than an elite competitive sport.
Showing someone nipping through traffic and arrving earlier than colleagues, alert, destressed and ready for the day is a better angle for people who'll look at the 'bronzed adonis' and think "I don't look like that, therefore this isn't for me".0 -
bails87 wrote:simonaspinall wrote:
An advert displaying ripped, toned sprinter thighs, six-packs....
Would that not make it look like something for super fit athletes to do.
There are plenty of people on here who I'm sure don't look like that, myself included. I think it needs to be encouraged as a 'past time' and a convenient form of transport, rather than an elite competitive sport.
Showing someone nipping through traffic and arrving earlier than colleagues, alert, destressed and ready for the day is a better angle for people who'll look at the 'bronzed adonis' and think "I don't look like that, therefore this isn't for me".
I agree to the extent that if we want to encourage more people to cycle, it needs to be portrayed as something that ordinary people do, not an edgy activity for out-there kind of people: I often think that the difference between the UK and the "cycling-friendly" nations is that here cycling is considered the equivalent of running, if not an out-and-out adventure sport, but there it's just like walking.
But you're missing the point of the "aspirational" thing - the idea is to make you feel (not think, because that's not usually sustainable) that if you buy the product, you could be like that. Look closely at most adverts and the absurdity shows through pretty quickly - "Buy our bogroll and you'll have more sex with better-looking people" - but it still works, doesn't it?0 -
A bit late for the mass market UK built bike industry.{Raleigh} The small bespoke builders could not afford it{TV} Word of mouth serves them well.
Raleigh spent large amounts including adds on telly and it still did not save them. I am for it ,but lets see a British volume built product.
Easy add .I cyclist riding past a traffic jam going into any town.bagpuss0 -
bails87 wrote:simonaspinall wrote:
An advert displaying ripped, toned sprinter thighs, six-packs....
Would that not make it look like something for super fit athletes to do.
There are plenty of people on here who I'm sure don't look like that, myself included. I think it needs to be encouraged as a 'past time' and a convenient form of transport, rather than an elite competitive sport.
Showing someone nipping through traffic and arrving earlier than colleagues, alert, destressed and ready for the day is a better angle for people who'll look at the 'bronzed adonis' and think "I don't look like that, therefore this isn't for me".
Well I think the majority of people know that they will not get a six-pack etc but they still will do it. Making an everyday long-term thing is well, dull! Look at the eating campaigns and change4life and how cr@p an advert they were - who wants to buy into mundane-ness?!
We all know that 'the drive of your life' in the wilds of scotland won't happen if you buy a peugeot...but people buy peugeots and 4x4s. Obviously for the space and perceived safety factor as well but these are also overtly marketed and discussed if you went to a showroom.
Consider also not just the content and style of the ad - Moody, shadowy lighting profiling muscular tanned thighs with a gruff rebellious marlboro man attitude for the bike itself...not the commuting aspect. A company like specialized or trek could probably do this sort of thing.
If this was on prime-time TV...? Never underestimate the vanity and body insecurity of men in front of their partner when a more fit/attractive man is on the telly!What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
bails87 wrote:simonaspinall wrote:
An advert displaying ripped, toned sprinter thighs, six-packs....
Would that not make it look like something for super fit athletes to do.
There are plenty of people on here who I'm sure don't look like that, myself included.
Nor we look like any of the people that are used to advertise anything. Even an ad for toothpaste features a naked woman with perfect body.
For me it's a question of image. What image does the bicycle have in people's minds? Currently, its either a toy or a niusance. And the only times I saw it featured in any type of advertising was in a negative way: a Virign Trains ad had a bunch of horseriders kocking a cyclist off his bike. And (the worst of them!) a car ad had a young woman pedalling up a hill in tiny shorts on a mountain bike, only to be "helped" by a cuddly toy driving a car (hooking the bike to the back of the advertised car). That particular one was so infuriating for me, not only as a cyclist, but as a woman, too! Can't even remember which brand of car they were advertising. :x
The latest Volvo ad has two cars driving on empty central London roads. Like that's ever going to happen! But it sells.0 -
I think someone else summed up what I meant when they said cycling should be equivalent to walking, not running.
I went to Belgium for a few days, we saw a football match in Bruges, at the main stadium, so 30 thousand or so people. And there were bikes piled up everywhere, literally dumped in huge piles at the side of the road. At the end of the game everyone found their bike and rode home. No lycra, no helmets, no SPDs, no carbon fibre, no drop bars. But also, no six packs, no 'lung-busting', no sweating, just podgy old Belgians wobbling their way home after a few pints and football match.
That's the truth of more cycling, unfortunately it doesn't really look good in an advert. I really think that the key thing is to emphasize that it's not something for fit people, it's not a sport. It's a way of getting about that takes as much effort as walking, but is quicker and cheaper than driving at rush hour.0 -
MadammeMarie wrote:bails87 wrote:simonaspinall wrote:
An advert displaying ripped, toned sprinter thighs, six-packs....
Would that not make it look like something for super fit athletes to do.
There are plenty of people on here who I'm sure don't look like that, myself included.
Nor we look like any of the people that are used to advertise anything. Even an ad for toothpaste features a naked woman with perfect body.
For me it's a question of image. What image does the bicycle have in people's minds? Currently, its either a toy or a niusance. And the only times I saw it featured in any type of advertising was in a negative way: a Virign Trains ad had a bunch of horseriders kocking a cyclist off his bike. And (the worst of them!) a car ad had a young woman pedalling up a hill in tiny shorts on a mountain bike, only to be "helped" by a cuddly toy driving a car (hooking the bike to the back of the advertised car). That particular one was so infuriating for me, not only as a cyclist, but as a woman, too! Can't even remember which brand of car they were advertising. :x
The latest Volvo ad has two cars driving on empty central London roads. Like that's ever going to happen! But it sells.
Was that the renault 'shaking that ass' ad...?
Hmmmm seeing as though I can still remember that commercial pretty well would be an argument for cycling. I can't remember any other bit of the advert in fact. I can't even remember if it was a man or woman...just bike and bottom.
Oh! I know the one you mean....that was also a great one for exploiting women's insecurities...however shallow it is, women want an ass like that. Well, a lot of them do anyway.
Not sure it would be persuasive enough to get them commuting in all weathers.
What about using the gym network? Large audience, surplus income, practical for workshops, communal feel and ties in with the main message of fitness.What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
bails87 wrote:The ad was for a Vauxhall, the new Corsa I think. The one with the pull-out bike rack built into the bumper?
Ah, yes - It still shows the car dominating the bike with the bike being portrayed as an add-on to a default car lifestyle.
A step in the right direction but still shows the car as a leisure/pastime activityWhat wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
bompington wrote:bails87 wrote:simonaspinall wrote:
An advert displaying ripped, toned sprinter thighs, six-packs....
Would that not make it look like something for super fit athletes to do.
There are plenty of people on here who I'm sure don't look like that, myself included. I think it needs to be encouraged as a 'past time' and a convenient form of transport, rather than an elite competitive sport.
Showing someone nipping through traffic and arrving earlier than colleagues, alert, destressed and ready for the day is a better angle for people who'll look at the 'bronzed adonis' and think "I don't look like that, therefore this isn't for me".
I agree to the extent that if we want to encourage more people to cycle, it needs to be portrayed as something that ordinary people do, not an edgy activity for out-there kind of people: I often think that the difference between the UK and the "cycling-friendly" nations is that here cycling is considered the equivalent of running, if not an out-and-out adventure sport, but there it's just like walking.
But you're missing the point of the "aspirational" thing - the idea is to make you feel (not think, because that's not usually sustainable) that if you buy the product, you could be like that. Look closely at most adverts and the absurdity shows through pretty quickly - "Buy our bogroll and you'll have more sex with better-looking people" - but it still works, doesn't it?
Somebody better warn that Andrex puppy...0
