Reston Waste - scary HGV incident
Comments
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gaz545 wrote:Headhuunter wrote:Oh I geddit.... I thought we were watching the cyclist in front not the cameraman. Well, in any case, I would certainly have put myself across to the right and filtered to the front. There seems to be a fair amount of space to the right of the white van which Gaz stops alongside.... But it's hard to judge from that little camer shot...
The more space you take up on the right the harder it is for the HGV driver to see you, i stayed to the left so he could see me clearly if he looked.
From the video it's clear to see that me and the other cyclist had enough experience to know that this is going to happen and to hold back. but what if it was someone else who had only just started? a non indicating lorry which doesn't give way is just going to cause an accident.
I agree that the truck driver was a complete eejit - no indication and no functioning left mirror, but I would have felt very vulnerable if I were in the same position you and that other cyclist were in and would certainly have taken the lane somehow, probably by pulling in front of the Reston truck just as the lights were changing, before it had started moving, to prevent it from doing what it did. He may have blasted his horn and I would have given him the finger. As long as I'm safe I don't give a cr@p if he's late...Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Headhuunter wrote:probably by pulling in front of the Reston truck just as the lights were changing
I rather suspect that would be the last thing you did, had you done that in this situation. Gaz evidently had similar thoughts, and I can't imagine any cycling instructor recommending that you do such a thing.
There's no need to feel vulnerable hanging where both cyclists did - it's a one-way where the skip lorry can't turn into, and even if it did, there's loads of space to evade it. It's also nicely out of the way of the entrance to the road that the skip lorry did want to enter, as the cyclists both correctly predicted.0 -
BentMikey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:probably by pulling in front of the Reston truck just as the lights were changing
I rather suspect that would be the last thing you did, had you done that in this situation. Gaz evidently had similar thoughts, and I can't imagine any cycling instructor recommending that you do such a thing.
There's no need to feel vulnerable hanging where both cyclists did - it's a one-way where the skip lorry can't turn into, and even if it did, there's loads of space to evade it. It's also nicely out of the way of the entrance to the road that the skip lorry did want to enter, as the cyclists both correctly predicted.
Admittedly it's hard to judge from camera footage but I think I woulda. It wouldn't be the 1st or the last time I have shoehorned myself into primary to give myself control before a difficult junction. It's just something I find I do to make myself safer in London traffic.Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Headhuunter wrote:BentMikey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:probably by pulling in front of the Reston truck just as the lights were changing
I rather suspect that would be the last thing you did, had you done that in this situation. Gaz evidently had similar thoughts, and I can't imagine any cycling instructor recommending that you do such a thing.
There's no need to feel vulnerable hanging where both cyclists did - it's a one-way where the skip lorry can't turn into, and even if it did, there's loads of space to evade it. It's also nicely out of the way of the entrance to the road that the skip lorry did want to enter, as the cyclists both correctly predicted.
Admittedly it's hard to judge from camera footage but I think I woulda. It wouldn't be the 1st or the last time I have shoehorned myself into primary to give myself control before a difficult junction. It's just something I find I do to make myself safer in London traffic.
+1.
In my experience, no driver (or maybe one in 100,000) is going to deliberately shunt you if you pull in front of them. They might mutter to themselves, but they'll get over it.
I also indicate like a woman possessed, rather than the hip level signal the cyclist in front made.0 -
6 seconds - that's how long he has between arriving at the risky gap you want him to take, and the lights changing. Given that it's on his commute route, I reckon he had an inkling the lights were about to change and that that was part of his decision not to go in front. Bloody good decision too, there was a huge chance the lorry would move off with Gaz stuck in the blindspot to the side and just in front of the truck, and before he'd reappeared at the front.
I reckon Gaz takes primary appropriately far more than most cyclists and is an excellent rider, both from watching his youtube videos, and from actually riding with him in person. I rather suspect your risk thresholds, l-i-t and headhunter, are much higher than they could be based on your judgement to go ahead in this situation. Are either of you trained as cycling instructors?
It's often the case that going to the front is unplanned and unnecessary impatient filtering, no different to what we all love to complain about car drivers doing. There is just no way you can realistically criticise someone for holding back in a safe spot before choosing a gap and taking it.
Can't argue with the slightly underassertive signal the rider in front made, but then we're not really discussing him. Let's also remember here that it's the Reston driver who drives rather poorly IMO, and that there's not actually anything wrong with Gaz's cycling, which is sensible and cautious in this specific situation.0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:
I also indicate like a woman possessed, rather than the hip level signal the cyclist in front made.
+1 (not like a woman though in my case :oops: )
I didn't realise he was indicating, looked more like pointing a pot hole. Only noticed the movement when LiT pointed it out.0 -
Yes, he's not really the subject of the video though, just another cyclist incidental to this vid. His positioning could have been way better given he was already at the front. The debate is really about what the Reston driver did wrong, and what Gaz did to correct for it.0
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lost_in_thought wrote:In my experience, no driver (or maybe one in 100,000) is going to deliberately shunt you if you pull in front of them. They might mutter to themselves, but they'll get over it.
I also indicate like a woman possessed, rather than the hip level signal the cyclist in front made.
I've had two of them 1 in 100,000s - both around this area.0 -
BentMikey wrote:<snip>
... I rather suspect your risk thresholds, l-i-t and headhunter, are much higher than they could be based on your judgement to go ahead in this situation. Are either of you trained as cycling instructors?
No, I learned to ride my bike in the training school of life, dude.
Having learned the hard way about being on the left when I want to go right, I no longer do it. Didn't need an instructor to tell me that. Also, I didn't need an instructor to tell me that indicating with my whole arm is much better than indicating with my wrist, and that if people know where you're going they're more likely to try and help you.
Mind you, I did have a driving instructor for some time...
I also learned the definition of 'scary', but I used a dictionary for that...0 -
Nothing to see here. I've seen scarier driving on a daily, no, hourly rate commuting in London. I honestly can't see what the truck driver does wrong (in any case no worse that 90% of other HGV drivers). His driving isn't malicious, endangering life or illegal. IMO it isn't even dangerous. It does no-one any favours to demonise people going about their business in a relatively orderly way.
And the suggestion that you need to be a cycle instructor to have a valid viewpoint is equally preposterous.
a serious case of small cogs0 -
toontra wrote:Nothing to see here. I've seen scarier driving on a daily, no, hourly rate commuting in London. I honestly can't see what the truck driver does wrong (in any case no worse that 90% of other HGV drivers). His driving isn't malicious, endangering life or illegal. IMO it isn't even dangerous. It does no-one any favours to demonise people going about their business in a relatively orderly way.
And the suggestion that you need to be a cycle instructor to have a valid viewpoint is equally preposterous.
I think theres a fair point to be had that the HGVs positioning has and will lead to confusion. I agree I dont think it malicious but it could well contribute to problems if his actions are unclear (same with the cyclist in front tbh)
You also have to accept that people dont learn unless these things are discussed from time to time. That counts us in this as well as motorists.0 -
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But what if me or the other cyclist weren't aware of this junction and how this can sometimes happen? then it's a disaster waiting to happen, no indication and a dodgy mirror.toontra wrote:Nothing to see here. I've seen scarier driving on a daily, no, hourly rate commuting in London. I honestly can't see what the truck driver does wrong (in any case no worse that 90% of other HGV drivers). His driving isn't malicious, endangering life or illegal. IMO it isn't even dangerous. It does no-one any favours to demonise people going about their business in a relatively orderly way.
And the suggestion that you need to be a cycle instructor to have a valid viewpoint is equally preposterous.
Drivers should take extra care when around cyclists, especially when they have just set off.
And i don't know what others like to do in traffic, but if i haven't seen the lights go red, then 90% i will wait in the traffic in a primary position as i have no idea when the lights are changing and don't want to get squashed if traffic starts to move.
+ i think my position is spot on, i've just come between a bus and car before the TP flat bed, and i know nothing is going to come up behind me bar the bus. no need to take primary as the lorry won't see me, if he looks0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Having learned the hard way about being on the left when I want to go right straight on, I no longer do it. Didn't need an instructor to tell me that. Also, I didn't need an instructor to tell me that indicating with my whole arm is much better than indicating with my wrist That's not Gaz here, let's stay on topic, and that if people know where you're going they're more likely to try and help you.
Mind you, I did have a driving instructor for some time...
I also learned the definition of 'scary', but I used a dictionary for that...
Couple of little fixes for you there. Remind me again, why is it good to filter impatiently in a risky time-constrained scenario, and what is wrong with Gaz's positioning and waiting back until he considers it safe to go?toontra wrote:I honestly can't see what the truck driver does wrong (in any case no worse that 90% of other HGV drivers). His driving isn't malicious, endangering life or illegal. IMO it isn't even dangerous.
Ah yes, what about overtaking someone indicating right, turning left from the 2nd lane instead of the first lane, and not bothering to look or negotiate for your place in the 1st lane to turn left from? Because that's what the skip lorry driver did.
It's only not dangerous because Gaz made allowances for the bad driving, and took the danger out of the driver's actions. It's scary because another less experienced cyclist would be under considerably more risk from that driver.0 -
BentMikey wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:Having learned the hard way about being on the left when I want to go right straight on, I no longer do it. Didn't need an instructor to tell me that. Also, I didn't need an instructor to tell me that indicating with my whole arm is much better than indicating with my wrist That's not Gaz here, let's stay on topic, and that if people know where you're going they're more likely to try and help you.
Mind you, I did have a driving instructor for some time...
I also learned the definition of 'scary', but I used a dictionary for that...
Couple of little fixes for you there. Remind me again, why is it good to filter impatiently in a risky time-constrained scenario, and what is wrong with Gaz's positioning and waiting back until he considers it safe to go?
Ah thanks sweetcheeks, cheque's in the post. Do you do freelance?
I haven't actually made any comment about your boy Gaz's positioning, all my assertions have related to the Guy In Front. Let's call him Gif for now. Gaz is hard to see, one of the perils of mounting a camera on your person I suppose.
And it looks like 'right' to me, I mean if he's indicating straight on he's making a right hash of it. The skip lorry went straight on, but that's a matter of perspective I guess.
And keep your hair on, it's not a 'risky, time-constrained scenario', we're not in 24, it's a set of traffic lights. We fools in London pass through several 'risky, time-constrained scenarios' per day.
I shall start humming mission impossible to myself at all times. Maybe if I think like Tom Cruise I'll avoid disaster... but what about all the risk?! OMG I'd best stay indoors...0 -
Red light. Green light... *boom*lost_in_thought wrote:I shall start humming mission impossible to myself at all times. Maybe if I think like Tom Cruise I'll avoid disaster... but what about all the risk?! OMG I'd best stay indoors...0 -
JonGinge wrote:
Red light. Green light... *boom*lost_in_thought wrote:I shall start humming mission impossible to myself at all times. Maybe if I think like Tom Cruise I'll avoid disaster... but what about all the risk?! OMG I'd best stay indoors... 0 -
Got a result. the owner sent me an e-mail earlier today asking for me to ring him.
I did and he said he was sorry, and after speaking to the driver who was also sorry and did explain that the road was a bad one for both cars and bikes. It's not clear at that junction which lane is to go where and we agreed that it was 6 of one half a dozen of other on road positioning, and that the lack of indication etc.. was just down to driver error. I've agreed to take down the video on his request, this shall be actioned later on.
He also mentioned the other employees who where posting videos and comments have been spoken to!
This is exactly the result i was after in the first place, it's just a shame it had to take this long and come from that direction.0 -
Just looked on your youtube page and this comment made me spit my coffee over the monitorhi there, i just had a look at a few of your videos, and i came up with the conclusion that you need to get another hobby mate. there are so many dating sites you could join these days! and how have you got the nerve to call these people "bad drivers" when your the one on a bicycle with a freaking camera in your hand? maybe if you kept your eyes on the road instead of on the camera, you might be able to watch where your cycling, therefore, no more near crashes for you! idiot.
That has just made my day...0 -
cjw wrote:Just looked on your youtube page and this comment made me spit my coffee over the monitorhi there, i just had a look at a few of your videos, and i came up with the conclusion that you need to get another hobby mate. there are so many dating sites you could join these days! and how have you got the nerve to call these people "bad drivers" when your the one on a bicycle with a freaking camera in your hand? maybe if you kept your eyes on the road instead of on the camera, you might be able to watch where your cycling, therefore, no more near crashes for you! idiot.
That has just made my day...
I think everyyone with a helmet cam gets that. 0
