Bike satnavs

Iwingstein

Could someone please explain why I can buy a satnav for the car with maps for most of europe for £75 and if I want one for my bicycle it'll cost twice the price of my bike.

Not amused

Cheers

Chaz.Harding

If it sits inside a car windscreen, it doesn't have any vibrations, shocks or weather to contend with.

Bicycles are open to the elements, and generally have lots of shocks and vibrations, especially when you crash, as you're looking at a GPS

frogstomp

Car sat-navs generally have very low resolution topography (ie. just roads) whereas GPS systems aimed at walking/cycling etc. require maps with much more detail (eg. OS mapping) which are logically going to be more expensive.

If you just want something with just roads get a cheap car sat-nav or use your phone if it supports GPS - Nokia S60 phones now have free mapping, if not Garmin etc. do software for various phones..

Briggo

Iwingstein wrote:

Could someone please explain why I can buy a satnav for the car with maps for most of europe for £75 and if I want one for my bicycle it'll cost twice the price of my bike.

Not amused

Cheers

Compare functionality, durability, portability and everything else and you'll see why they're cheaper compared to bike/walking GPS units.

agg25

Well I have a Tom Tom One v3 Europe and found a small clip on ebay that mounts onto the handlebars, not exactly durable offroad, but on road it works a treat (as long as it doesn't rain!)

bails87

But does it have bridlepaths and other 'proper' OS detail?

Antony_de_H

You get what you pay for - something like a Satmap Active 10 is super-tough, long battery life (2 days+ on lithium AAs), proper bike mount, etc. I did a 5-day off-road tour last year (London to Brighton to Bristol, using roads and bridleways) where we were able to plan each day's route on the fly, depending on weather, how knackered we were feeling, etc. To do the same with paper maps wouldn't have been practical - we'd have needed about 10. They're much more of a niche product than a car satnav too.

If you want a "budget" option, then a second-hand PDA (£50) plus Memory Map (£50) plus however many maps you need (£20-200) will work OK. But it'd have to be something you keep in your Camelbak rather than something you mount on your bars due to the fragility of it.

Barrie_G

bails87 wrote:

But does it have bridlepaths and other 'proper' OS detail?

Probably not, but then again neither do the garmin 605/705's

bails87

Barrie_G wrote:

bails87 wrote:

But does it have bridlepaths and other 'proper' OS detail?

Probably not, but then again neither do the garmin 605/705's

Oh right, Satmap and the Garmin Dakota/Oregon do though don't they? If I was buying one it would be so I could use it to navigate. It's not much good saying "the village of Westhamptonshireville is about 2 miles North of here" if you can't see a way to get there. If you're only riding on the roads then fair enough, it's not really an issue. But when you're at a junction on bridleway, it's not much use.

ExeterSimon

The Dakota and Oregon can use GB Discover maps (OS) but these aren't compatible on the 605/705.

But why buys maps if you can download perfectly good offroad versions from free websites like openstreetmap etc?

I have a shed load of free maps that display bridleways, paths etc.

bails87

ExeterSimon
Fair enough, I just meant maps with OS levels of detail. My point was that you can't put these on a standard tomtom.

Cunobelin

Barrie_G wrote:

bails87 wrote:

But does it have bridlepaths and other 'proper' OS detail?

Probably not, but then again neither do the garmin 605/705's

The 705 will take the "Open source mapping" such as the Open Cycle map which does have paths, bridleways and cycle tracks............and is absolutely free!

Mark_K

Cunobelin wrote:

Barrie_G wrote:

bails87 wrote:

But does it have bridlepaths and other 'proper' OS detail?

Probably not, but then again neither do the garmin 605/705's

The 705 will take the "Open source mapping" such as the Open Cycle map which does have paths, bridleways and cycle tracks............and is absolutely free!

Ohh do tell me more !

Cunobelin

NAvigate your way here

antfly

It`s hardly OS quality. Sticking memory map or viewranger on a phone or pda you already
own surely makes the most sense. I can attach mine to the bars with a Krusell case and mount if I really want to and as I got the whole country off e-bay it cost virtually nothing. It`s got road maps and guidance too.

Well aren`t i a smug bastard?

MrVanilla

Problem with using a PDA or a phone on a long trip is battery life.... A Dakota 20 with the custom maps (i.e Memory Map transfers) will last 14hrs. I get a measley hr tops using a TYTN2 with MM navigator, 2 hours if using an external bluetooth SIRF III.
Dakota or Oregon with Memory Map transfers should cover all your navigation requirements.

Briggo

antfly wrote:

It`s hardly OS quality. Sticking memory map or viewranger on a phone or pda you already
own surely makes the most sense. I can attach mine to the bars with a Krusell case and mount if I really want to and as I got the whole country off e-bay it cost virtually nothing. It`s got road maps and guidance too.

Well aren`t i a smug bastard?

And if you dont have a compatible phone or own a pda, then you need to purchase one (not cheap) or get an expensive phone contract...

:roll:

antfly

True, but if you have got a compatible phone, and a lot of people do, it`s worth considering.
The batteries don`t last long but you can obviously carry a spare, although I get 2 to 3 hours on my xda orbit with MM navigator.

Raymondavalon

Personally I'd never contemplate mounting a phone to the bars of my bikes, the issue is that it's a phone first and foremost and if I were to take a fall and trash my phone, well it's an inconvenience I just don't need. Also, not seen any decent handlebar phone mounts that would leave me feeling confident that the phone would stay put or survive if the bike fell over or if I bailed while moving

I don't really see the need for a "Satnav" on an MTB either, they're great when commuting, but I don't see a TomTom, Garmin or the like being of any use to my riding as I barely ever commute far with the "roadster" MTB and I don't see a Satnav being of any use on a trail centre, Cannock Chase or Swinley Forest.

I use an Garmin eTrex GPS and it suits me fine for my type of riding, but other than the obvious advantage of the mapping, I find the extra info from the eTrex very enlightening such as distance, max speed, moving average, overall average and altitude. The other advantage is that Garmin make pukka bar mounts and from experience I know they keep the GPS in place if I bail.. I also have mounts on all my bikes so it's clip-and-go

antfly

I have a garmin edge 305 anyway so the pda stays in my pocket until I get lost but I bought this for my dad and it`s rock solid along with a see-through case.
It`s more secure than a garmin mount anyway.

Cunobelin

There are a lot of myths about this.

Firstly phones - BEWARE
Many companies have maps as data, and they can be very heavy in use. If you have data limits or ar paying this can mean big bills.

Many phones also are not "GPS" but rely on a signal to triangulate - again chargeable and relies on good reception. Not always available.

PDA's by the time you have equipped with maps and a GPS Reciever it is not acheap option, also not waterproof, robust or with a useful battery life.

Finally OS mapping is not necessary in most cases , I have a SatMap for walkng and an Edge 705 for the bikes.

I have tried the SatMap for cycling, but find the OSM Cycle maps far easier to digest and use when on the go, and more than adequate detail

antfly

I was referring to devices with built-in gps and you don`t have to go online with memmap or viewranger so no costs once you have the maps. OS maps are superb and essential if you ride in the hills and like to explore properly offroad. Obviously if there`s money to burn get a gps for all occasions but if you`re on a budget pdas are great do-it-all devices that you can use for mountain biking, walking, road cycling and in the car as-well with voice guidance, speed camera warnings and traffic updates.
If you want to spend £800 on two GPS devices that`s up to you.

Cunobelin

I don't come across many speed cameras off road!

The risk of a PDA based system with Memory-Map running getting you through a good day of road is not high, fragility, battery life and all the other limiting factors.

I first used these back in the early 2000's and still have OS on both the Iphone and PDA, but from experience would rely on neither for a day out.

antfly

The OP`S question was about cost so I am just pointing out what you can get without having to spend three or four hundred quid {they cost a lot more than double £75 if you want maps} and that for far less money you will have better maps and better guidance.
I love my edge 305 but i`m not paying another £350 or so to get inferior maps.

x-isle

The only issue with using a phone or PDA is that the GPS is not as good as a purpose built device.

I used to use Memory Map with an iPaq, it was great and works ok, but nowhere near as accurate or reliable as my SatMap.

asquithea

I have a SatMap and a bike mount for MTB.
Decent product, study mount, fricking expensive (especially the mapping!)

TBH, the detailed OS mapping isn't generally that helpful, because you really need to stop to read it properly -- which you could do equally well with a paper map. When it's set up to follow a trail that you've prepped earlier, it's usable for most purposes, but then I'm sure that there are cheaper products that can do that job with less detailed maps and a simple LCD display.

Then again, it's a seriously good walking GPS, so I'm sure it's worth the cash for some people.

paulrockliffe

I think if you need a navigation aid (GPS or paper) to get round your ride, then you're approaching this subject from the wrong angle. You don't really need a map on your GPS at all, what you need is the ability to mark your course or route on your computer and transfer it to your device, so that you can let the GPS do the navigation for you and you can just follow the line without having to stop etc.

A map is just a 'nice to have' really if you've done the above.

I've got Memory Map on my PDA-based phone, which I use if I'm out walking or whatever and have a specific need to know exactly where I am on a map, such as climbing up onto Dove Crag in the snow over Christmas. I also have an Edge 705 on the way, which I'll be using on the bike for following a route I've put together in advance.

antfly

I agree with all that but you contradicted yourself a bit when you said you`re getting a 705. You don`t even need a map on it if you`re following a planned route, like you said.

paulrockliffe

Maybe I just like the pictures!

ed_arnold

You can spend plenty more than that on a car satnav, depending on features and it's the same for biking/walking satnavs. If you want full OS mapping it costs, but you could also buy a Garmin eTrex for <£100 if you just want something to give you a position or grid ref.
I have to mention the blanket statement earlier about smartphone being innaccurate as not all phones and gps units are created equal. For instance, the assisted gps on my iPhone 3GS is MUCH faster at getting an accurate lock than a number of popular Garmin eTrex units I've used it alongside, and is 'real' GPS, with added bonus of being able to initially triangulate from cell towers and wifi to improve speed and error correction. But then, the very latest handheld units now sport EGNOS compatibility and will be even more accurate, and are obv much more durable. It'll always come down to intended use - I decided I'm fine with short battery life when I can have 1:50,000 OS mapping for £12.99 and track logging for 59p compared to the cost of a whole new unit But if you don't already have a phone....

CraigXXL

Does anyone use a Garmin Dakoto 20 and what are your opinions of it?