Ultremo R1 - how strong is it?

pianoman

Just wondered if any has been crazy enough to take the new Schwalbe Ultremo R1's out yet. Because I looked at the weight comparison between the new model and the 2008 standard Ultremo and noticed that the weight is down to 180g! Surely that can only mean on of two things:

1. Puncture resistance has been sacrificed so we now have a virtual clone of the Continental Supersonic;

2. The tread is softer than ever, so they wear out even faster than the old ones.

Would be a shame if both of the above are true because the silver ones would look great on a Van Nicholas bike.

Also, should I look at the TPI of a tyre to determine its durability? Both the Ultremo and Stelvio tyres have relatively high TPI's and I wondered if that was part of the reason why they wear down so much faster than tyres such as the Gatorskins or Panaracer Extreme Duro's.

If I was to stick with Schwalbe (given that my LBS stock them) would folding Blizzard tyres be better than Stelvios for winter roads and should I just use Ultremo R1's for time trials and triathlons, and use something like Duranos for the rest of the summer?

Or can anyone recommend any others (I DO like striped tyres) :P

balthazar

TPI – threads per inch – describes only the fabric used to make the tyre casing. DIfferent fabrics have consequences for durability against cuts and abrasions, and for weight – but not for tread wear, which is entirely a matter of tread thickness and composition. In general, carbon black in tread rubber improves both longevity and wet grip.

The country roads I ride are not highly trafficked and there's little broken glass, hence I puncture rarely. I can use thin light tyres all year round. In urban areas it wouldn't be worth it. You know your own roads, so are best placed to choose the appropriate tyres. Craziness doesn't come into it, just how bored one gets with repairing punctures.

sheffsimon

PianoMan wrote:

Just wondered if any has been crazy enough to take the new Schwalbe Ultremo R1's out yet. Because I looked at the weight comparison between the new model and the 2008 standard Ultremo and noticed that the weight is down to 180g! Surely that can only mean on of two things:

1. Puncture resistance has been sacrificed so we now have a virtual clone of the Continental Supersonic;

2. The tread is softer than ever, so they wear out even faster than the old ones.

Would be a shame if both of the above are true because the silver ones would look great on a Van Nicholas bike.

Also, should I look at the TPI of a tyre to determine its durability? Both the Ultremo and Stelvio tyres have relatively high TPI's and I wondered if that was part of the reason why they wear down so much faster than tyres such as the Gatorskins or Panaracer Extreme Duro's.

If I was to stick with Schwalbe (given that my LBS stock them) would folding Blizzard tyres be better than Stelvios for winter roads and should I just use Ultremo R1's for time trials and triathlons, and use something like Duranos for the rest of the summer?

Or can anyone recommend any others (I DO like striped tyres) :P

Michelin Pro 3's wear well, rode and raced thru summer last year without any punctures. Come in all sorts of colours, Parker Int usually have em at decent prices.

I use gatorskins in winter, though just bought a GP four seasons tyre to try (think thats the right name)

pianoman

Michelin Pro 3's wear well, rode and raced thru summer last year without any punctures. Come in all sorts of colours, Parker Int usually have em at decent prices.

I use gatorskins in winter, though just bought a GP four seasons tyre to try (think thats the right name)

So tyres like Gatorskins, Panaracer Extreme Duro's, etc are better in winter because their lower TPI, harder rubber etc makes them less susceptible to cuts and fast degradation?

I do like the look of the GP 4000s in summer, doesn't Mark Cavendish use that tyre? Hmm he really does struggle doesn't he

incog24

I've been running the Stelvios I got sent by Ultremo all winter. Only puncture so far was a pinch (and I'm always going over glass at the bottom of my street)...Seem really good, wearing down slower than Michelin Lithions that I've used before, and they grip way better. Not sure how they've managed that one, but its good.

Haven't tried the new Ultremos yet so can't comment...I was saving them for racing, but now I've got some tubs so not sure when I'll be using them!

pianoman

How are the Stelvio's wearing? My post is more aimed at the type of rubber that is more appropriate for winter, in other words does anyone else think the Schwalbe tyres are soft (which I understand is good for grip but not for longevity).

Anyone tried the Durano? It seems as if Schwalbe are quoting figures in the 5000-6000 mile range for this one because they're aware that some of their tyres don't last as long as some of the competition.

nferrar

Used Ultremo's last winter (despite the recall notice) and they held up surprisingly well, had one flint puncture. The tread was fairly well cut up by February but they're a soft compound so I expected that, ended up having to bin the rear after a crash tore through the sidewall but that was my fault The front is still on the bike but about to change for a Conti GP to see what they're like.

Cubic

FYI - Schwalbe are discontinuing the Stelvios and replacing them with the Durano S. Not sure if the difference is in the name only...

I've used two sets of stelvios over the past 18months or so and have been impressed. Only one puncture (due to flint) and I find them fast and grippy.

pianoman

They do look quite sweet - the Durano S's were in one of my local shops today.

Just going back to the Panaracers, this is an interesting quote, which could relate to both the Extreme Duro and the Extreme Evo 3's I guess:

Once up to pressure the tyre has a slightly triangular shape to it, so when rolling along in a straight line you’re riding on the ridge of the tyre, and when leaning over in the corner there’s suddenly more tyre in contact with the ground.

So surely this hard compound in the centre absorbs less vibration (assuming equal pressures) than the softer Stelvio tyres I've had on recently?

Of course, the Extreme Duro's I had back in 2007 WERE noticeably slower thyan the likes of the Michelin Pro 2's but a) they were 25mm and b) they weren't the Evo 3's. Might the Evo 3's be good in the summer if I was to go with Extreme Duro's for the winter, then I could hopefully get top-end tyre performance without worrying about the grip or toughness going off as quickly as soft tyres do?

Also it's a bit bizarre that there's also the Panaracer Closer which is the same weight as the Evo 3. It's also got the same TPI! Would the ZSG Natural Compound of this "time trial tyre" be softer or harder than the ZSG Dual Compound of the "road tyre", hence explaining the reason for this tyre to exist?

Just a few thoughts.

After all, any decent set of tyres these days costs £60, I thought I might as well get my money's worth.........

gumball3000

Ridden the new R1 today. 85 miles in rain and on poor back roads with lots of flint. Tyres are grippy and certainly fast enough. No obvious cuts or any marks. Wear will be the issue but far too early to tell. They are staying on for the moment!

Smokin Joe

PianoMan wrote:

Michelin Pro 3's wear well, rode and raced thru summer last year without any punctures. Come in all sorts of colours, Parker Int usually have em at decent prices.

I use gatorskins in winter, though just bought a GP four seasons tyre to try (think thats the right name)

So tyres like Gatorskins, Panaracer Extreme Duro's, etc are better in winter because their lower TPI, harder rubber etc makes them less susceptible to cuts and fast degradation?

I do like the look of the GP 4000s in summer, doesn't Mark Cavendish use that tyre? Hmm he really does struggle doesn't he :lol:

On his training bike, maybe.

I bet he races on tubs.

Gazzaputt

Love to tell how they are but still haven't had my replacements for the old Rs :-(

Should have been here end of Jan.

chipperleenie

I want to get a pair of Ultremo R's in white but can't find anyone with them in stock. Anyone know who has got some?

Had a pair of Ultremo on best bike in 2008 and they were great, went for Pro Race 3's last season and they didnt last, a lot of cuts and then the sidewall blew out. a lot of friends have had poor durability for Pro 3's and I won't be touching them again. (The tyres not the friends!)

I use Conti 4 seasons for winter when roads are crap and best wheels for best only.

Gazzaputt

chipperleenie wrote:

I want to get a pair of Ultremo R's in white but can't find anyone with them in stock. Anyone know who has got some?

Had a pair of Ultremo on best bike in 2008 and they were great, went for Pro Race 3's last season and they didnt last, a lot of cuts and then the sidewall blew out. a lot of friends have had poor durability for Pro 3's and I won't be touching them again. (The tyres not the friends!)

I use Conti 4 seasons for winter when roads are crap and best wheels for best only.

No-one will have them yet as Schwalbe UK don't have them. Black and Red are the only colours at the mo.

pianoman

Could anyone answer this then:

Is it true that the higher the TPI count, the faster a tyre wears down? I've been told that the benefits of high TPI tyres like Open Corsas are:

More puncture resistance
Lower rolling resistance
Improved ride quality
More grip.

Surely it must be at the expense of longevity? And why would a company like Panaracer declare their race tyre to be "only" 126TPI while the Open Corsas are 320? Surely there isn't THAT much difference in speed between two sets of tyres? Or is fast wear rate purely down to the soft compounds used in tyres such as the Continental Supersonic?

balthazar

PianoMan wrote:

Could anyone answer this then:

Is it true that the higher the TPI count, the faster a tyre wears down?

That was your initial query which I answered in the first reply..!?

pianoman

No, what I'm getting at is that is there this many benefits to having high TPI tyres? After all, everyone raves about the Open Corsas, don't they?

balthazar

PianoMan wrote:

No, what I'm getting at is that is there this many benefits to having high TPI tyres? After all, everyone raves about the Open Corsas, don't they?

OK then: higher thread count (thinner) casing fabrics should offer a little less rolling resistance than thicker: simply, thinner fabrics flex more easily. In practice, these differences are swamped by other factors such as tread (and inner tube) thickness, and tyre size.

Apart from that, there is some dispute over whether thinner fabrics are more or less susceptible to punctures (perhaps the threads on lower TPI tyres are easier to part). I suspect there's not much in it here either.

Theres a graph in this article showing RR for an assortment of (older) tyres. Note that the expensive, high TPI tubular is only middling.

Anything else is marketing.

gumball3000

So far I am pleased to say the new R1s are looking very impressive. No serious wear marks or cuts like the older models so far. Grip is great, even in the wet. I may have solved my tyre issue!

disney

I have used the durano plus folding tyre from autumn onwards and all through the really rough winter weather on terrible surfaces. Not one puncture so far. Imo they are the best winter tyre I have ever seen. Heavy and hard to put on first time , but after that they are simply fantastic and I have tried many tyres. All down to the smartguard layer I believe. i have dug out a few massive flints and shards of glass that would have destroyed other tyres. Reluctant to change them for summer tyres.

amck111

I too like the look of these tyres but am confused.

Do I want the Schwalbe Ultremo R.1 Evolution or the Schwalbe Ultremo R? Are the R.1 Evolution the new type out to replace the R's or are they just a different model? CRC have the Ultremo R in the colour I'm after for £30 each though I have a feeling they might be last years model with the all the problems...

pianoman

Avoid the 2009 Ultremo R's like the plague. I had the standard ones from 2008 and, bizarrely, they have worn better than the white Stelvios. Maybe it's partly because most of the cuts have happened on the white parts of the Stelvio rubber, black carbon is more resistant to wear than silica. When was the last time you saw Bridgestone bring white-striped tyres to a Formula 1 race for the "option" tyres?

Instead, I suggest you look here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-2010-Schwalbe ... 439d82f8b1

Black, 2010, Ultremo. What more could you want?

Now all I need to do is nip down to my LBS to mop up the last two Stelvios they have at old prices and no doubt they'll give me many more trouble free miles. Then, get some new R1's for the best wheels

blorg

Smokin Joe wrote:

PianoMan wrote:

I do like the look of the GP 4000s in summer, doesn't Mark Cavendish use that tyre? Hmm he really does struggle doesn't he :lol:

On his training bike, maybe.

I bet he races on tubs.

Conti Force and Attack on the training bike, complete with frame pump


Conti Competition tubs for racing AFAIK, I got a pair of ex-Columbia HTC wheels for racing and that is what came on them. All the other Columbia wheels I saw had the same tyres.


I was a big fan of the original Ultremo and found them very durable. I was holding off a bit with the problems with the R but may try them now it is fixed, if the weather ever gets any better. Have also had good experiences with GP4000S although I found the Ultremos more durable.

amck111

PianoMan : Thanks for the tip off, hopefully they'll still be on ebay for that price come payday!!

epicdaza

GP4000S, awesome tyre.

Weighs a little more than it says on the tin but on my second set now and only one puncture in over 10,000 miles! And yes, I run them all year round!

Purchased some Ultremo's in between the two sets, tyres showed multiple small cuts, two punctures and one split (that if I hadn't have noticed it as I was gluing up and extsiting cut would have become yet another puncture, all in less than 1,000 miles).

I put my ultremo's to good use and binned the F***ers!
They may be light and fast but your not fast whilst sitting at the road side with a mini pump and a pumped arm like Arnie himself!

Daza

Chip \'oyler

Schwalbe make superb tyres. End of.

epicdaza

:shock: No doubt, shame they don't like UK roads much :roll:

blorg

I've had better luck with Schwalbe Ultremos than GP4000s. 1,000s of km on the Ultremos between punctures while I got a string early on with the GP4000s. Note I use the word luck. Both are decent tyres.

Chip \'oyler

epicdaza wrote:

:shock: No doubt, shame they don't like UK roads much :roll:

Eh! The reason I think they're so good IS because they're so suited to UK roads

nferrar

I wouldn't put too much sway on a single person's opinion. Just to contradict epicdaza's experience my Ultremos lasted all winter last year and this year a GP4000s lasted 50 miles on the rear before a sidewall cut condemed it to the bin. That doesn't mean the GP4000s is especially fragile or a crap tyre, just I had a bit of bad luck with mine. Waiting on the Ultremo DD's to come back in stock myself as for me they sound a good balance between weight, performance and puncture resistance. If I were using them for racing on on smoother continental roads I'd give the R1's a try.

epicdaza

I'm guessing it's all down to your luck.

A couple of my teammates ride the Ultremo's and love them too. That said one of the guys did have two punctures whilst doing the Suffolk Sunrise last weekend, but there were seemingly a lot of bad roads and other getting punctures too.

My experience of them did really put me off which is a shame, I would love to run them because they are very light and spin up extremely quickly and rolling resistance is about as quick as it's going to get. But my bad punctures came from riding the same roads I ride all year long on GP4000S's, once bitten and all that.

I go to France and ride 'the big stuff' as well as challenging sportives in the UK, just can't put the whole puncture thing out of my head, especially when you are decending 50+ in France.

I think with any lightweight tyre you pay's your money and take your chance as far as punctures are concerned. I guess I'm just very unlucky with Ultremo's and extremely lucky with GP's.

Daza