parked cars - etiquette
Comments
-
Waddlie wrote:Forget etiquette and to a lesser extent, forget the highway code. City cycling is dangerous enough without putting myself in danger for the sake of being polite or legally "in the right." I'd've done whatever was safest - primarily for myself and secondarily for the other road users - either gassing it to get ahead or easing off gently enough to let him through without giving following motorists the opportunity to follow him. As far as is practically possible, I take responsibility for my own road position and don't rely on others getting out of the way to keep me safe.
+1
Do whatever you need to do to keep yourself safe and avoid damaging anyone else.
"But he was acting like a tw*t" wouldn't hold much water in court if you had pushed him into the path of a vehicle.Emerging from under a big black cloud. All help welcome0 -
MY reading is that there were no passing cars - one lane, two bikes, parked cars, no room for overtaking cars.linsen wrote:Waddlie wrote:Forget etiquette and to a lesser extent, forget the highway code. City cycling is dangerous enough without putting myself in danger for the sake of being polite or legally "in the right." I'd've done whatever was safest - primarily for myself and secondarily for the other road users - either gassing it to get ahead or easing off gently enough to let him through without giving following motorists the opportunity to follow him. As far as is practically possible, I take responsibility for my own road position and don't rely on others getting out of the way to keep me safe.
+1
Do whatever you need to do to keep yourself safe and avoid damaging anyone else.
"But he was acting like a tw*t" wouldn't hold much water in court if you had pushed him into the path of a vehicle.
But if there was room for passing cars, yes.0 -
Waddlie wrote:Forget etiquette and to a lesser extent, forget the highway code. City cycling is dangerous enough without putting myself in danger for the sake of being polite or legally "in the right." I'd've done whatever was safest - primarily for myself and secondarily for the other road users - either gassing it to get ahead or easing off gently enough to let him through without giving following motorists the opportunity to follow him. As far as is practically possible, I take responsibility for my own road position and don't rely on others getting out of the way to keep me safe.
No need to forget the highway code. If you've read it you'll know about this recommendation:
"The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident."0 -
realALBERTAN wrote:don't ride in the park lane... I would never cut in and out of parked cars, that's asking for a door prize... traffic can wait if it's narrow....
Cycling in Canadian cities is a comparative doddle - two lanes, wide lanes, each way. Good visibility, nice straight roads.
Here, the park lane is... um.... the lane. Often, being not in the door zone menas placing yourself square in the path of raging motorists. A Hobson's choice. Its much rarer in North American cities.
Hold up a car for a femtosecond on the open road, though, and you take your life into your hands.0 -
jedster wrote:I had arrived at the front of the bike lane and was waiting for the lights. As the lights changed I accelerated and went straight on. I could see a parked car ahead and started shoulder checking knowing that I would need to pull out around it. As I checked, I saw that the cyclist *behind* me had pulled out alongside me but was making no progress getting passed me.
After carefully reading jedster's post, it is clear to me that the guy *behind* him was in the same lane and just started an overtaking maneuver, without due care and attention.
It was therefore *the guy's* fault.0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Ahhhhh but in the particular bit, upper brook st. W1K for gmaps, it's (in my view) more like 2 lanes, the LH one of which is unfortunately filled with parked cars. Because of that, my opinion is that if you don't make it into the RH lane, thereby avoiding the parked cars, it's your fault. Essentially, it's a lane change, not an overtake. Does that make any sense?
Not to me.
Is it a race? It's traffic: when one lane is *obviously* obstructed, both parties must cooperate.
The guy who was behind jedster should have either overtaken quickly *or* held back.
He did neither.0 -
fnegroni wrote:jedster wrote:I had arrived at the front of the bike lane and was waiting for the lights. As the lights changed I accelerated and went straight on. I could see a parked car ahead and started shoulder checking knowing that I would need to pull out around it. As I checked, I saw that the cyclist *behind* me had pulled out alongside me but was making no progress getting passed me.
After carefully reading jedster's post, it is clear to me that the guy *behind* him was in the same lane and just started an overtaking maneuver, without due care and attention.
It was therefore *the guy's* fault.
that would be my view as well.0 -
Same here - the other cyclist effectively tried to force the OP into the back of a parked car. The discussion thus moves on to what the OP can do to correct for the idiot's fail.0
-
If the overtaker was in a car and not on a bike, we'd pretty much all be rolling our eyes at what an idiot the driver was (but also recognising that car drivers do that to cyclists all the time) but I suspect that Jedster might have taken primary if he knew that a car was about to come up on his right and this wouldnt have even arisen as a problem.
The issue here for me is that another cyclist who must have that experience of cars not letting you out, overtaking at inopportune moments, etc all the time has chosen to put another cyclist in that position (or simply hasnt thought about his actions) AND that other cyclists here seem to think that somehow he is in the right!!0 -
+1 to previous 5 posts.0
-
Two road rules:
- You shouldn't undertake. As in overtaking on the left.
- In this country we give way to things on the right.
If there are two lanes merging into one then the person on the inside i.e. the left lane (who is equally the person heading towards the parked car) should have braked (slowed down) and switched lanes when safe to do so/appropriately.
Yes the guy in the right lane could have let you go, but to my understanding he had the right of way.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
BentMikey wrote:Did you miss this bit in the Highway Code, DonDaddy?BentMikey wrote:"The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident."
Right, so the OP should have given way to the cyclist on the right i.e. braked to avoid an incident.
We don't undertake (come up from the inside) be it car or bike. We shouldn't overtake on the left and then move into the persons lane. We don't give way to things on the left.
The OP was on the left. He needed to give way to the person on the right.
If it was a roundabout the OP would be giving way to things coming up to him on the right.
Bottomline Dude should have slowed down, let the guy on his right pass, joined the lane and then overtaken the cyclist on their right.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Well apart from using the exact phrase "right of way" that highway code excerpt supports what DDD just said.
But to be more general, it could pretty much support anything anybody says about a road traffic situation.0 -
The OP should have been riding faster.....fancy letting someone come past, or even attempt to.
0 -
If I need to overtake someone but I can see their path is blocked then I tend to hold back till the obstruction is passed. If it's someone who doesn't look too confident then I'll even take a line just behind and to the right.
It's a question of politeness. Do unto others and all that.0 -
OK so the issue here is that you were racing another cyclist who pulled alongside but couldn;t make the pass stick.
Leaving aside the FACT that you should clearly have just accelerated away, you were perfectly within your rights to brake and go round the other side of him because he was breaking SCR rules1, 2 and possibly 3 so no scalps exchanged.0 -
DDD, you do realise that the problem was that the OP was not undertaking, but was being overtaken inappropriately. It's not acceptable for the overtaking cyclist to force someone into a parked car, you wouldn't accept this behaviour from a driver that's for sure.0
-
BentMikey wrote:DDD, you do realise that the problem was that the OP was not undertaking, but was being overtaken inappropriately. It's not acceptable for the overtaking cyclist to force someone into a parked car, you wouldn't accept this behaviour from a driver that's for sure.
I have to say I don't quite get this 'being forced into a parked car'. Nobody's forcing anyone into a parked car, the OP could have just hit the brakes.
I've found myself in that exact situation many times on the exact same bit of street, and just braked. No big deal.0 -
BentMikey wrote:DDD, you do realise that the problem was that the OP was not undertaking, but was being overtaken inappropriately. It's not acceptable for the overtaking cyclist to force someone into a parked car, you wouldn't accept this behaviour from a driver that's for sure.
If the OP had to move towards his right to avoid the obstruction then he needed to brake, stop and wait until it was safe to do so.
You have to be completely bloody minded to plough your bike straight towards a parked car, knowing you can't instantly move around it.I have to say I don't quite get this 'being forced into a parked car'. Nobody's forcing anyone into a parked car, the OP could have just hit the brakes.
I've found myself in that exact situation many times on the exact same bit of street, and just braked. No big deal.
Say it again sister!Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
0
-
lost_in_thought wrote:
Edit: I really wish I could post the Boondocks clip I really want to but it might be too much for British humor.
Edit Somemore: Ah feck it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCR60giY ... re=relatedFood Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
After carefully reading jedster's post, it is clear to me that the guy *behind* him was in the same lane and just started an overtaking maneuver
This is correct.
We were both in the same lane. The lane was wide enough that one cyclists could safely pass a parked car without moving into the right hand lane.
He was behind me and chose to pull alongside me in my lane. And very close beside me.
I was not kerb hugging. I don't. I was somewhere between primary and secondary. His positioning was forcing me into the parked car.
I was not undertaking. I had been in front, he pulled alongside and was never ahead of me.0 -
Perhaps should say that I'm a bit sensitive on this subject because I was involved in a similar incident in almost exactly the same place a couple of years ago. That time I was the overtaker. I saw the parked car ahead and thought I had plenty of time to pass (at a sprint) before the cyclist would need to pull out. He decided to pull out nice and early without looking or signalling. I took evasive action and hit the side of a cab that had moved up on my elbow. The resulting spectacular fall hurt quite a lot and wrecked a wheel and a brake lever.
I thought that all three of us were to blame (me too close, cab too close, cyclist moving without shoulder checking). I'm now very conscious of the need to give EVERYONE plenty of space...
J0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:I have to say I don't quite get this 'being forced into a parked car'. Nobody's forcing anyone into a parked car, the OP could have just hit the brakes.
I've found myself in that exact situation many times on the exact same bit of street, and just braked. No big deal.
Nothing to argue with your second para - just be aware that that is now correcting for the bad overtaking cyclist's poor riding.
The first para is wrong - it would have been perfectly obvious to the overtaking cyclist that the lane of moving traffic is going to go past the parked car, not into its boot. It's his fault entirely for overtaking in a manner which does not allow for this.0 -
BentMikey wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:I have to say I don't quite get this 'being forced into a parked car'. Nobody's forcing anyone into a parked car, the OP could have just hit the brakes.
I've found myself in that exact situation many times on the exact same bit of street, and just braked. No big deal.
Nothing to argue with your second para - just be aware that that is now correcting for the bad overtaking cyclist's poor riding.
The first para is wrong - it would have been perfectly obvious to the overtaking cyclist that the lane of moving traffic is going to go past the parked car, not into its boot. It's his fault entirely for overtaking in a manner which does not allow for this.
Doesn't matter why or how, it's no use being right and dead.0 -
I have to say I don't quite get this 'being forced into a parked car'. Nobody's forcing anyone into a parked car, the OP could have just hit the brakes.
Of course.
And ultimately that is what I would have done rather than drop my shoulder on him.
But if you look at the thread title you'll see that I was asking for views on what the "right" way of behaving on the road is. Seems that there could be a difference of opinion:
a) It is reasonable to expect other road users not to put you in a dodgy position when they try to overtake you. Of course sometimes people will but that doesn't make it right.
b) It's a jungle out there. If my overtake puts spomeone else in a difficult situation that's just tough.
Personally I think a) and if someone balls it up and gets asked to adjust there road position, they should give an apologetic wave not a abuse.
J0 -
BentMikey wrote:
The first para is wrong - it would have been perfectly obvious to the overtaking cyclist that the lane of moving traffic is going to go past the parked car, not into its boot. It's his fault entirely for overtaking in a manner which does not allow for this.
But we give way to vehicles on the right.
Whether the cyclist was behind, approaching or infront, given that the OP did not have enought room to move to a safe position in order to pass the cars, then the OP should have slowed down or waited until it was safe to do so. The responsibility for his safety is his own (while also ensuring he isn't a danger to others).
If he was in his car and he crashed into the park car it would be his fault.
If he was in his car he would not have been able to pull out right and would have either had to madly acceletate (which would have been wrong) or slowed down or stopped until it was safe to manouevre around the park cars.
If he was taking his driving test and did not slow down he would have failed.
Fact is the OP should have slowed down, allowed the person on the right to pass and then he should have moved into position to pass the vehicles when it was safe do so.
Further more, when commuting in heavy traffic you should be looking far up the road and anticipating your path, so that you can take up an early position, so you flow along the road and not be prone (what may seem erratic) to sudden course correction. ~ Be like waterFood Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Further more, when commuting in heavy traffic you should be looking far up the road and anticipating your path, so that you can take up an early position, so you flow along the road and not be prone (what may seem erratic) to sudden course correction. ~ Be like water
DDD,
I think you're getting a bit silly now.
I DID seee the parked car nice and early thats why I had time to ask him to move over - THREE TIMES!
If he had been looking ahead, he would never have tried the overtake.
I don't think give way to the right applies to people who are in your lane. Partciularly when he should never have been in that position - 18 inches off my wheel.
Certainly if you are following behind someone in their lane, the vehicle ahead has right of way. You should not be cutting into their road space to get past.
J0
