To buy or to build?

tigerben

My wife is currently riding a clunky heavy hybrid and has expressed an interest in upgrading to a proper road bike (something I am keen to encourage!)

My budget is c. £750. The bike will mostly be used for commuting and sunday morning rides - no racing or TT's - so looks are considerably more important than weight. In terms of group set Tiagra would do the trick.

The wife has expressed a strong preference for skinny tubed steel bikes.

I have looked at the ladies specific bikes produced by usual suspects and none of them tick the box in terms of appearance. Which has led me to thinking that maybe i should try and build the bike myself (possibly picking up decent old steel frame off ebay).

Having never built a bike before I like the idea of the challenge of trying to build one and i think the experience could be invaluable for my maintenance skills going forward! However my current experience is limited to basic cleaning and maintenance. Am I being hopelessly naive here?

Also am i likely to get a better bike for my money if I buy all the parts seperately relative to buying a complete bike?

Thanks

maddog 2

I always build myself.. well almost always.. but I'm an ex-mechanic, and I love building and speccing bikes up, so normally I'd say go for the build. But maybe not in this instance.

the main issue is this skinny tube thing. You can pick up s/hand steel frames but getting a small one may prove tricky and getting new stuff to integrate is also often tricky. Old steel frames often run 1" forks so getting replacements is often hard (eg. carbon forks).

I'd have a word with her. £750 will buy a very tidy new bike, with full women-specific kit on it - bars, levers, saddles, crank lengths, short top tube etc. And the sales are on so you could pick up an 09 bike for a lot less than RRP (and get 0% finance on it, so it's effectively £60 a month for the next year).

Even if you did a cracking steel build I doubt it would be lighter than a 2010 off-the-peg and could well be a lot heavier.

I've just built up a steelie for my father-in-law - all in he's paid over a grand but the spec is only Ultegra/Aksiums and it certainly isn't light. And that's with some cunning purchasing by me

Wheelspinner

Don't listen to him. Well, not all of it anyway, even if he does make some sense...

Build it yourself.

Your 750 pound budget is roughly 1500 bucks in my money. I did exactly what you are suggesting and built this:

[img][/img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/46121102@N05/4248746937/

It's an old steel frame, repainted, rebuilt and And this one uses Campag parts, and virtually new Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels. And I still spent just over about 800 quid in your money.

Fun to build, a unique result, and a glorious thing to ride.

skyd0g

IMHO I'd suggest you buy new - While it is fun and interesting to build one from scratch, you are likely to get a better specced bike overall for your budget buying new, rather than trying to put it all together from seperate parts.

On a second-hand ebay frame, there is also the potential problems of damage to the frame, but even if the frame is 100% okay, there would be the problems of 'old-style' fittings/threads/sizes etc. making your build very much more difficult.

Depending on Mrs tigerben's proportions, it may not be necessary to limit your search to 'women specific' bikes, as most 'male' bikes can be adapted by careful choice of frame size together with adjustments such as stem length to suit. A good LBS would be able to help here.

By buying new (rather than 'cobbling-together' from an old frame), Mrs tigerben gets a brand new shiny bike fitted specificallly for her.

Slow Downcp

Build it - you get what you want, not the parts a manufacturers gets a good deal on. I've saved money on my last two bikes by building, rather than off the peg, as I;ve not had to swap out saddles, tyres, bars etc. Shop around and you should get all new parts for the money you have to spend.

Wheelspinner

skyd0g wrote:

...you are likely to get a better specced bike overall for your budget buying new, rather than trying to put it all together from seperate parts.

On a second-hand ebay frame, there is also the potential problems of damage to the frame, but even if the frame is 100% okay, there would be the problems of 'old-style' fittings/threads/sizes etc. making your build very much more difficult.

My steel frame is from 1985, and has a standard 68mm English thread BB shell. Yeah the fork is 1" threaded, but you can still buy a ton of headsets brand new in that size. And there are adaptors (like I've used) which convert the quill type stem to allow you to use an Ahead stem, cheap, easy, reliable and nice looking too.

Other than that the main difficulty with older frames is whether new wheels and cassettes will fit between the dropouts. At least with steel frame you can cold set them to suit easily. Mine was 126 mm spacing in the dropouts, which took all of 20 minutes to adjust to 130 mm, fine for Campag 10 speed.

In terms of "better spec", I built this with Campag Record Titanium brakeset, Record Cassette, Chorus carbon levers, (all very slightly used off Ebay), brand new Chorus front mech new Record headset, new alloy Centaur compact crankset and BB, new bars & stem from 3T and the Mavics were off Ebay from a guy who decided after 100 km he wanted carbon rims instead of aluminium. Paid less than a third of new price for 'em. '

Try buying any new bike with that spec for your budget... remember, I spent just on 800 pounds here all up!

skellator3

also watch out when you buy the old steel frame the rear axle width will be different to modern bikes and you may have to get it modified to take a modern 700c wheel and 9 speed cassette.
in theory this build is a good idea but biggest problem will be getting the correct frame, if you can get one def build it it will be good experience and u get what you want,

only remember to factor in the cost of the tools you will need

Ginjafro

The possibilities of building from scratch are infinite and you could produce a great bike, I've built two myself. However, have you may want to have a look at what Planet X have to offer. At the moment, from £750, they have the steel framed Kaffenback flat bar road bike which might fit the bill and for £200 more a better speced drop barred version. The small version though is currently out of stock but knowing them they'll get new stock in eventually.

maddog 2

nice build wheelspinner

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of building your own and I've probably built up 10 bikes over the last two years, but in this instance, given the fact that he hasn't built anything before, its not obvious that this would be the best solution. You are clearly capable of making the right build decisions wheelspinner but re-dishing wheels and so on are going to be a stretch for a rookie builder - it could prove a somewhat costly experiment.

I'd always suggest, for your first build, keep it simple and use modern gear that you know is compatible. Then move on to trickier builds with older stuff and mixed groupsets as you get more experience.

Slow Downcp

If you can stretch the budget a little, sensible buying could get you this:

http://www.planet-x-warehouse.co.uk/aca ... _Road.html

tigerben

Thanks for the responses

I had feared that there woudl be significant issues with 'old-style' fittings/threads/sizes etc. This would be taking me well outside my comfort zone.

I have seen new steel frames by planet-x and Surly - and think that this would be the best route to go down as I assume they would be compatible with modern components. Does anybody know of any new frames with exposed steel forks (like the classic colango frames)?

skyd0g

maddog 2 wrote:

nice build wheelspinner

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of building your own and I've probably built up 10 bikes over the last two years, but in this instance, given the fact that he hasn't built anything before, its not obvious that this would be the best solution. You are clearly capable of making the right build decisions wheelspinner but re-dishing wheels and so on are going to be a stretch for a rookie builder - it could prove a somewhat costly experiment.

I'd always suggest, for your first build, keep it simple and use modern gear that you know is compatible. Then move on to trickier builds with older stuff and mixed groupsets as you get more experience.

+1
My thoughts entirely. I'm all for self-building and have done a few myself, but for a rookie builder there are numerous pitfalls - especially with an old frame.

balthazar

A Bob Jackson frame+fork (steel, painted) new is £400:

http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/default.php?cPath=28



You might just be able to bring the whole bike in at close to £750 if you're eagle-eyed for a bargain. As others have said, it takes a little foreknowledge to know whether used parts will work together. All new parts will probably bust the budget unless you go for very low-end or get lucky.

Still, I'd be up for the challenge of helping you spec it if you go for something like this, as I'm sure would others here!

APIII

I'll probably get slated for this, but if it's more about the looks and a gentle pootle on the weekend, how about one of these?
http://www.pashley.co.uk/news/2009/10/pashley-returns-to-the-club/

I saw them at the Bike show last year and they look beautiful. I can't remember the exact price but it was under a grand.

maddog 2

another left-field option would be a Cotic roadrat

British, steel and in-budget. Geared or SS, Vs or discs, flat or drops

http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/roadrat

ride_whenever

Lovely but heavy, electra would be a better bet, they do a lovely aluminium upright road thing with massive moustache style sweep back bars. That has skinny steel tube styling.

cougie

I always used to build my own in the days of custom steel as being the ultimate frame, but I'd go off the peg now. Fantastic value for money out there, and I'm no longer as fussy as I was. Maybe the saddle would need changing - but the rest of the kit would be fine for me.

If its your wife you are building for then beware of going for the bits that you rate and like. She may not like them or simply not care. One mans custom dream is another ones nightmare ride.

dennisn

I would say build it yourself. IF you have the PROPER tools. The only real problem, and maybe it isn't really a problem, could be that if you buy all the stuff to build one over the Internet and catalogs, what happens when you need shop help. Sometimes not the best of ideas in taking your mail order bike to a shop. My advice would be to at least give your local shop a chance to sell you some things you need. This sort of gets them on your side when you need their help.

GyatsoLa

I doubt if you'll build up a bike for that budget for cheaper than an off the peg unless you are a very skillful EBay shopper. Bear in mind that you will need to buy the tools too - they can be quite pricey. There are lots of tasks on bike building which are easy enough with the proper tools, but a complete nightmare if you don't.

A 'midway' option would be to do a bike build course. In 2 weeks I'm building up my new bike with cyclewales.net - its costly to book it, but they source most of the parts for you at a good price and you have the advantage of a mechanic to show you what to do, and a full workshop of Park tools play with - including things no home mechanic will have, such as tools for milling out the headset and BB to ensure a perfect fit.

Monty Dog

It depends how close "off the peg" meets your requirements - in particular the geometry of some frames. The Cotic for example is a nice frame but has a stupidly long toptube for such a small frame. There are very few steel framed complete bikes out there because most are bought by those seeking something non-standard. Complete builds are generally best value as the manufacturers can buy the parts at a deeper discount than the shop. Another maker worth looking at is Paul Hewitt who still makes his own frames. One of the biggest joys of cycling is building a bike up from scratch and taking it for its first ride IME.

Evil Laugh

I'm having the same headache with my missus.

She wants/needs a new bike.

She's 6 foot tall but finds the reach on my 54 synapse too much, she's all legs and hair.

Ideally she'd like a Condor Classico or one of the classic/new Bianchi's, classic look, modern parts/wheels etc but they're way out of her (my) price range. If I had the money I'd take her down to Condor and get her fitted for a Classico, she loves it.

http://www.condorcycles.com/classico.html

http://www.bianchi.com/uk/products2010/ ... Y0BE7.aspx

Deep down I know she just doesn't want a modern thick tubed ali/carbon bike.

We're quite into the idea of building her a steel framed bike up with new parts as she's quite specific on the look of the parts etc she wants but finding a frame is a big problem due to her shape.

I'd imagine she'd want a 52cm eff top tube length but for e.g the Kaffenback fits the bill pricewise and with ease of build but the triangle looks way out for her, nowhere near enough seat tube going on. The pic of it built up looks stupid, like a BMX or something.

http://www.planet-x-warehouse.co.uk/ind ... ge_id=1174

Anyone any ideas where I could go with this?

I could take a punt on an old ebay frame but how would I work out if it will fit her?

Could I do something based on her position on my bike and work something out from there?


Wheelspinner's bike looks really cool. I know she'd be well happy with something like that if I swapped the black post and stem/bars for titanium/chrome (one of her main gripes, frame aside, with modern looking bikes).

That would be the sort of thing I'd imagine building up for her.

Cheers!

mroli

If the Classico is out of budget -have you thought about the Fratello - my missus has one and loves it....

Evil Laugh

Yeah I have, there was one on gumtree last night but I'd imagine at £200 it was nicked.

Maybe if one came up second hand.

Wheelspinner

Evil Laugh wrote:

Wheelspinner's bike looks really cool. I know she'd be well happy with something like that if I swapped the black post and stem/bars for titanium/chrome (one of her main gripes, frame aside, with modern looking bikes).

That would be the sort of thing I'd imagine building up for her.

Cheers!

Thank you Evil Laugh ... I wanted a polished alloy seat post as well, but finding one in 27.0 mm size ain't easy! I know of one available locally which is a lovely fluted Dura Ace one, but they want about 100 quid for that alone ($180 in my money... ) Ouch! The black one was the only thing I could find at a sensible price.

I'd also like the Deda Zero stem in polished alloy, but same deal. Very expensive. I got the 3T one for about 12 pounds (25 bucks) off Ebay, unused.

balthazar

Wheelspinner wrote:

Thank you Evil Laugh ... I wanted a polished alloy seat post as well, but finding one in 27.0 mm size ain't easy! I know of one available locally which is a lovely fluted Dura Ace one, but they want about 100 quid for that alone ($180 in my money... ) Ouch! The black one was the only thing I could find at a sensible price.

I'd also like the Deda Zero stem in polished alloy, but same deal. Very expensive. I got the 3T one for about 12 pounds (25 bucks) off Ebay, unused.

I predict a resurgence for polished alloy components from the major manufacturers. Campag have led the way with Athena, and now there seem to be a few shiny chinks in the uniform matt black wall of product ranges. I hope so, because I've stubbornly resisted all this black stuff (I guess it came in as an easy way to associate cheap kit with carbon fibre), and I 'm running out of old components to use. I'd love Campag to release their Record hubs in high polish again.. if I'd known that was it I'd have bought twice last time.

Evil Laugh

Wheelspinner, there's some titanium posts, spacers and stems about on fleabay that look nice and some polished deda bars.

We're gonna take your bike as inspiration. Have found a gazelle Reynolds frame with 55 st and 53tt that I hope we can make fit. 128 mm dropouts, 700 wheels and English thread bb. Does that sound ok for a conversion to more modern kit?

What's that stem converter thing you have, does that make it possible to add spacers/Lift head tube?

huuregeil

tigerben wrote:

The wife has expressed a strong preference for skinny tubed steel bikes.

This is the critical point, surely! If she loves the bike, she'll ride the bike.

£750 for a steel frame build is perfectly doable, given some smart buying and able assistance from forum members, riding friends, etc. I'd say do it, and you'll certainly learn a lot on the way.

I'd also second the "don't buy a secondhand frame" arguments here. Secondhand frames are great, and great bargains, but have potential for bananaskins. Buy a new bob jackson frame, great value at £400 and you get to chose the colour (from a very long list - no doubt likely to appeal, given the concern for looks. A great thing IMO, far too many black/white bikes on the road!). Smart buying on the rest of the components (poss secondhand) should see you good. There isn't really much to get wrong - just ask here if unsure.

tigerben

Thanks all for the responses. I think the Bob Jackson - Audax is probably the way to go. £380 for frame.. leaves c. £400 for rest (I already have wheels).

elcani

How tall is your wife? I have a quite small (forget actual dimensions) Graham Weigh Reynolds 753 road frame, with a 1 inch threaded carbon fork. I bought it with intention of building it up for my GF, but she's very happy with her Trek 7.3 FX and having just ordered a Planet X Ti Sportive with Dura Ace for myself (eek!), I'd definitely consider selling it on for £100 (what it cost me).

PM if you're interested and I'll measure it and email you some photos.

Cheers.

Wheelspinner

Evil Laugh wrote:

Wheelspinner, there's some titanium posts, spacers and stems about on fleabay that look nice and some polished deda bars.

We're gonna take your bike as inspiration. Have found a gazelle Reynolds frame with 55 st and 53tt that I hope we can make fit. 128 mm dropouts, 700 wheels and English thread bb. Does that sound ok for a conversion to more modern kit?

What's that stem converter thing you have, does that make it possible to add spacers/Lift head tube?

Here's one of the adaptors - it slides into the threaded steerer just like a regular quill stem, so you can then fit any current Ahead stem. They are cheap, light and work a treat.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=6254

Your frame sounds fine for conversion. The 700c wheels is good, means brake caliper selection is easier. You may need to get the dropout spacing expanded fractionally, to fit 10 speed spacing, which typically need 130 or even 135mm in some cases. Check your preferred wheel/cassette combo.

elcani

Sorry - the frame I mention above is Reynolds 853, not 753. I estimate it's from the mid-90's.