Rabobank dope testing numbers

iainf72
iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited February 2010 in Pro race
Quite a high number for Menchov but then he would've done a lot of tests during the Giro.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3055/ ... Nation.com)
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

Comments

  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,572
    do they do blood and urine at the same time?

    i remember cavendish saying he was tested 66 times in 2008
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • Yorkman
    Yorkman Posts: 290
    Taking all his blood out might explain why he kept falling over.
  • deal
    deal Posts: 857
    During the 2009 season the Dutch team submitted 304 urine tests and 180 blood tests to anti-doping officials

    yet the table shows 180 urine tests and 304 blood tests, proof reading ftw :lol:
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Submitting tests is one thing, but the whole point of tests are that they are supposed to be by surprise. Telling a suspect rider that he's got a haematocrit count check coming up in two hours' time is not going to achieve a lot.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Kléber wrote:
    Submitting tests is one thing, but the whole point of tests are that they are supposed to be by surprise. Telling a suspect rider that he's got a haematocrit count check coming up in two hours' time is not going to achieve a lot.

    I'm not big on doping science but have to ask. What could be done in that 2 hours if
    said rider was "at risk" of being caught?
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Dennis, it's like telling a burglar that the police will be searching his appartment for clues later in the day, advance warning gives them time to prepare and remove or tamper with suspicious evidence.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Kléber wrote:
    Submitting tests is one thing, but the whole point of tests are that they are supposed to be by surprise. Telling a suspect rider that he's got a haematocrit count check coming up in two hours' time is not going to achieve a lot.

    Where does it say that they weren't surprise tests? I think you're getting a little hung up on sematics there.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    A blood test is worthless if it's not done in surprise. It would be like putting a policeman in the passenger seat to check on whether you were speeding. It's better than nothing for Rabo to do these tests but they are principally a PR effort, I welcome it but it's not really going to put off the clients of Dr Ferrari or those exploiting Viennese clinics.
  • Bhima
    Bhima Posts: 2,145
    What do the numbers mean?
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Kléber wrote:
    Dennis, it's like telling a burglar that the police will be searching his appartment for clues later in the day, advance warning gives them time to prepare and remove or tamper with suspicious evidence.

    I was thinking more in the line of what can he do if it's in his blood or urine?
    I was a hippie once, so I know you can flush your dope(so to speak)with a bit of advance warning.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Kléber wrote:
    A blood test is worthless if it's not done in surprise. It would be like putting a policeman in the passenger seat to check on whether you were speeding. It's better than nothing for Rabo to do these tests but they are principally a PR effort, I welcome it but it's not really going to put off the clients of Dr Ferrari or those exploiting Viennese clinics.

    Where does it say that Rabobank did the tests? These are the number of times the riders got tested (by the UCI etc)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    dennisn wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    Dennis, it's like telling a burglar that the police will be searching his appartment for clues later in the day, advance warning gives them time to prepare and remove or tamper with suspicious evidence.

    I was thinking more in the line of what can he do if it's in his blood or urine?
    I was a hippie once, so I know you can flush your dope(so to speak)with a bit of advance warning.

    If you're haem's high you can have it lowered pretty quickly. This from an interview with anti-doping expert Professor Frank Delbeke from dailypeloton.com:

    http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=7844

    SM: In his book Willy Voet wrote that they quickly used infusions with liquids before doping controls to lower hematocrit levels. Is it possible to hide the use of EPO that way?

    Delbeke: Such an infusion can influence the blood values that are being tested before the race starts, in the morning. Riders used to have half an hour to present themselves for a control, these days it’s a mere ten minutes. So you’d have to be really quick with such an infusion. But up until a few years ago I saw riders at doping controls that were still dripping blood. They’d been recently injected with a needle, probably to administer a plasma-thinner to lower their blood values.

    But those methods don’t have anything to do with tracing EPO in urine samples. It’s impossible to mask an average dose of EPO in the first three days after injection. Unless you can thin your urine. That’s what I saw at the Tour two years ago, as an observer for the UCI. In one particular team none of the riders managed to provide a urine sample for an hour and a half after the race. They couldn’t, so they had to drink a lot. All of them from the same team, very strange. But coincidence? Probably not. Because there are two ways to thin your urine: either you take diuretics, but those are on the list, or you drink litres of water. A watery urine makes it harder for us. A few riders of that team tested positive later on, but you’ll understand that I can’t name the team.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    RichN95 wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    A blood test is worthless if it's not done in surprise. It would be like putting a policeman in the passenger seat to check on whether you were speeding. It's better than nothing for Rabo to do these tests but they are principally a PR effort, I welcome it but it's not really going to put off the clients of Dr Ferrari or those exploiting Viennese clinics.

    Where does it say that Rabobank did the tests? These are the number of times the riders got tested (by the UCI etc)

    I agree Kleber is guilty of putting his own spin on this despite there being no mention of who did the tests and whether they were unannounced or not.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Moray Gub wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    A blood test is worthless if it's not done in surprise. It would be like putting a policeman in the passenger seat to check on whether you were speeding. It's better than nothing for Rabo to do these tests but they are principally a PR effort, I welcome it but it's not really going to put off the clients of Dr Ferrari or those exploiting Viennese clinics.

    Where does it say that Rabobank did the tests? These are the number of times the riders got tested (by the UCI etc)

    I agree Kleber is guilty of putting his own spin on this despite there being no mention of who did the tests and whether they were unannounced or not.

    Maybe Kleber just picked the wrong word, and was thinking of "publish" rather than "do"?
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Sorry, my mistake. I knew Rabo had done some internal, supplementary, testing and believed this was what they were commenting on but having read the source press release (on the Rabo Sport website), it is indeed the official tests they are referring to.

    Why no mention of their internal controls?
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Kléber wrote:
    Sorry, my mistake. I knew Rabo had done some internal, supplementary, testing and believed this was what they were commenting on but having read the source press release (on the Rabo Sport website), it is indeed the official tests they are referring to.

    Why no mention of their internal controls?

    Why bother as you've already made abundantly clear they mean nothing to you anyway.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    Are these numbers high compared to other teams?

    If they're not the same, is this related to the doping authorities 'targeting' certain riders with suspect values?
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Why bother as you've already made abundantly clear they mean nothing to you anyway.
    Sharp as ever! Put aside how effective these tests are, I just meant that if Rabo want to make a press release they could bolster this by adding the number of internal they've done. It would make them look thorough and in control, no?

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