titanium forks: do they flex excessively?

cooperplace

if there is anyone with actual experience (as opposed to the ability to speculate) with Ti forks on a road bike, I'd love to hear from them. Do they flex under braking?

Thanks

Monty Dog

Firstly - you'll find it tricky to find a pair and those that are available are often pretty expensive. I have a pair of ti forks on a crosser, cum go-anywhere bike - they're made by XACD for disks - really a rigid MTB fork - they do flex but it provides a lot of confidence off road and they're still stiffer than any suspension fork. I'm not sure I'd go for a ti fork purely for a road bike - the only advantage may be durability and decent carbon forks are readily available

cooperplace

Hi,

thanks, yes I'm talking to XACD about it. So you didn't find the flex a problem? I'm getting them to put disc mounting points on it.

cougie

My sons MTB has the titanium Trimnell forks instead of front suspension - its kind of a half way house between rigid and proper suspension. Fine for trails, but not so great off road proper.

I'd go with carbon forks over Ti - better handling. Why are you fitting disks - just out of interest ?

cooperplace

I like discs because they give more powerful braking than caliper brakes. I want powerful 1-finger stopping when I have my hands on the hoods.

Why do say Ti forks have inferior handling to CF? Have you experience of a direct comparison, or are you inferring this from the properties of the materials?

cougie

My dual caliper brakes give plenty of power - enough to lock the wheels and you really dont want to go locking up the front wheel ?

I've only ridden the Ti fork on the MTB so loads different to the road bikes with CF forks I'm used to - so comparison is pretty pointless. I dont even know of a road bike other than a custom XACD that uses a Ti fork - so you're not going to get many answers from people who have ridden them.

Ti forks on road bikes are very rare. If Merlin titanium arent fitting their bikes with Ti forks - why would you ?

cooperplace

re Merlin bikes: indeed, you make a good point. Am I missing something? I know that everyone fits CF forks, even on Ti bikes, but the Q I'm still asking is: why?

By the way, I _can't_ lock my front wheel with my brakes. What sort of brakes, rims and pads are you using?

Thanks

cougie

I believe the word I've heard from others is that Ti can ride a bit noodly. So great for comfort, but you dont want your forks to waver from your line. CF is cheap and readily available and gives great handling. Dont bother reinventing the er, fork...

My Dura Ace brakes with standard shimano blocks stop the wheel perfectly well, but then again - so do my Cheaper Tektro dual calipers on the winter bike - again with standard blocks. Rims are Mavic on both - not even ceramic rims.

Monty Dog

The amount of power and modulation from a road caliper is incomparable to a disc brake like an Avid BB7 - even a DA or a Record. This is the same debate we have countless times - mainly from people who've no experience of riding both. Other factors to include is zero rim wear, very low maintenance - a pair of disc pads easily last a filthy winter. The only reason you don't see many ti forks is cost - plenty of people have tried but at £200+ for a fork, there simply wasn't enough demand. I wouldn't say my fork is noodly, just compliant - if you want noodly, try many lightweight suspension forks

cougie

Oh sure Disk brakes will give you more power - but do you need that much power with skinny tyres ?

redddraggon

cougie wrote:

Oh sure Disk brakes will give you more power - but do you need that much power with skinny tyres ?

modulation, not really power, is what disk brakes bring to the road I suppose

de_sisti

This is my bike with titanium forks. Very comfortable it is.

Smokin Joe

cougie wrote:

Oh sure Disk brakes will give you more power - but do you need that much power with skinny tyres ?

The more powerful the brake, the less chance of a wheel lock-up. A light touch makes it easy to regulate braking force, a white knuckle grasp of the lever doesn't.

Works the same on cars, stops are more easily controlled with discs than they were with drums.

rake

not if they are to sharp i find.you can snatch too hard at 6them and skid.

Smokin Joe

rake wrote:

not if they are to sharp i find.you can snatch too hard at 6them and skid.

Powerful brakes and brakes that snatch are two different things.

rake

iv drove in a clio and the brakes were dangerously sharp at coming on. thats what i mean. il take a firm brake by option of choice.

eh

Just get carbon forks I'm sure I've seen some that are disc suitable anyway. Can't see the point in Ti forks, you'd need to build them quite oversized to stop the flex, even steel forks can flex a huge amount under hard braking.

Just a thought if you are wanting to ride on the hoods still I'm assuming you will be using cable operated discs?

cooperplace

yes: have in mind Avid BB7s

cooperplace

cougie wrote:

Oh sure Disk brakes will give you more power - but do you need that much power with skinny tyres ?

Need? Need? I don't need a bike at all. I could walk everywhere. I certainly don't need one with 20 gears and titanium frame.

We're talking about WANT. I want more powerful brakes.

cougie

Fair enough - go for it then.

PHcp

Enigma made ti forks, I have a pair. Well when I say have, they've been recalled by Enigma as there was some manufacturing fault, a months wait for a replacment.... Not flexy at all, in fact probably no different in feel to decent steel forks at about 30% less weight.
I also have a XACD frame on order, which I'm tempted to put a disk brake on the front, probably with a steel fork, something like the Salsa La Cruz
http://s233299868.e-shop.info/shop/arti ... Forks.html

cooperplace

Thank you, I hope the XACD frame works out, mine is great. I also have a Renolds 531 frame and the Ti is a little better riding but feels nice than the 531. My wife's CF frame feels, in comparison, disconnected with the road.

AidanR

An advantage of going for a titanium fork from XACD is that you can specify length, rake etc to get exactly what you want. Virtually all carbon forks have a 43mm or 45mm rake, which is fine if you're not on a small frame or don't want to run mudguards or bigger tyres. I've got an XACD frame with Ti forks because I wanted to be able to run fatter tyres with mudguards for touring. I got them to make them with a 55mm rake to minimise toe overlap. Don't ask me how they ride though - I'm still finishing the build.

If you want disks on a road bike your options are pretty limited in terms of aftermarket carbon forks. There are a handful of 'cross forks such as those from Winwood, or you could go for a Trigon rigid mountainbike fork but they're really a bit too long at 415mm axle - crown.

In terms of disc vs. rim brakes, bear in mind that you're taking a big weight penalty - 700g forks + 350g caliper + 100g rotor + heavier front hub vs. 400g forks + 300g caliper, so a weight difference of around 500g just for the front brake. If you get some decent rim brakes with good pads like KoolStop salmons or Swissstop greens your braking performance may not be much worse than with discs. They should give you more than enough power in the real world.

Down/Up

AidanR wrote:

An advantage of going for a titanium fork from XACD is that you can specify length, rake etc to get exactly what you want. Virtually all carbon forks have a 43mm or 45mm rake, which is fine if you're not on a small frame or don't want to run mudguards or bigger tyres. I've got an XACD frame with Ti forks because I wanted to be able to run fatter tyres with mudguards for touring. I got them to make them with a 55mm rake to minimise toe overlap. Don't ask me how they ride though - I'm still finishing the build.

Will be interested in finding out how that handles, increasing for rake by that much should have some big impacts on handling. Did you do anything to the head tube angle to keep the trail within the normal range? Increasing the rake should decrease the trail resulting in more twitchy handling, should be an interesting first ride.

AidanR

No fear, the head tube angle is 70 degrees. I researched the geometry pretty thoroughly so I'm not expecting any nasty surprises. The trail is somewhere between standard road and touring, so it should feel pretty stable. The seat tube angle is fairly relaxed, the chainstays are 440mm and the wheelbase 1036mm so I certainly don't anticipate it being twitchy.

AidanR

Right, it's had a spin around the block. Handling seemed fine, though I won't be able to tell properly until I blast through a few corners. Fork seemed stiff enough too, but mine's overbuilt to take a front rack for touring.

PHcp

Any photos Aidan?