Touring without a pannier - possible?

fermion

I'll be going on my first tour this summer, across continental Europe (route yet to be decided) with a group of friends. I'll be riding a Trek 1.2 2009. We may do up to 2 weeks, probably covering somewhere between 50-100 miles a day. We will also be camping. Our budget is likely to be extremely tight, so I'm looking to cut costs wherever possible.

I have a strong dislike of panniers, and wanted to know is it completely unfeasible to embark on something like this without one? Assuming I didn't have to carry a tent as will hopefully be sleeping in my friends 3 man one, I will be most likely be carrying a (hopefully super-compact) sleeping bag, a minimal amount of clothes, lots of food and only other basic necessities. Would it be possible to carry most of this stuff on my back or in any way other than a pannier, or am I likely to completely kill my back within 2 days?

Any advice much appreciated.

iain_j

Yes, you're likely to kill your back within 2 days.

What is it you don't like about panniers? You could use a rack-top bag instead, or if it's the rack you don't want, use a seatpost rack

alfablue

I think your dislike of panniers is irrational. Carrying gear on your back is a bad idea, you will get at best a hot sweaty back, but you may also get back or neck ache, your arms may ache more, wrist ache, you may get sore shoulders, sweat rash, limited ventilation, your bum may get sorer, your centre of gravity will be higher and bike handling worse, etc etc - damned uncomfortable! It can also make you less safe as looking behind is trickier as your vision is obscured, and your balance goes when the bag shifts over one side when you turn.

I would not depend too much on your mates carrying capacity, and if you are struggling you may limit the mileage you all can do - I think it is a bit unfair to go ill-equipped when cycling with others.

A good cheap rack is the Tortec Ultralite which fits well on the Trek 1.2 (my g/f uses this setup). The best panniers are clearly Ortlieb Back Roller Classics, but there are plenty of cheaper ones.

Even if you resist panniers, I would still use a rack or a large saddle bag rather than carry gear on my person, though panniers are best - that's why everyone uses them Do yourself a favour.

priory

There are people who tour with only a backpack, usually off road.
I think it looks unnecessarily uncomfortable and hard work both carrying the weight and balancing.
I would not dream of doing it when it is so easy to put a pannier on. I use a throw-over design shown below (lidl or argos or raleigh).

it goes on in one movement then held by one bungeee over the top and one each side to stop the sides flapping about. because the sides are not very low it is easy to keep it away from your heels
take a lenght of rope to hang it on your shoulder if you want to walk about with it.



or you could use a carradice camper longflap with a qr mounting to keep it off your thighs.

By the way, if you think you are going ultra light because I am carrying the tent and cooker you can't come.

TerryJ

priory

can someone tell me why that picture did not show up?

alfablue

because you had the closing tag with the slash at the beginning, and the opening one at the end, and there is some extra junk after jpg that needs to come out

priory

Thanks. I'll fix it.

pneumatic

I did a week in the Alps with just a rackpack and a bar bag (staying in hotels). It required Ninja packing discipline and a tramp-like disregard for sartorial elegance, but it was worth it just not to have to haul panniers over the Galibier!

Otherwise, I love my panniers on the open road and have toured with 4, 2 and 1. Much rather that set-up than a backpack.

dennisn

Another question you might ask is will panniers even fit on your bike? And if they do would they be large enough to carry anything of note without you suffering heel strike on them. Somehow, someway, I think you'll need some sort of front or rear panniers.

alfablue

The Trek 1.2 with Tortec rack:

panniered up in touring mode:

fermion

The reasons I don't like them are basically:
- Hassle I don't really want (eg. pannier generally getting in the way, slowing me down)
- Money I'd rather spend elsewhere (sleeping bag, food!)
- Weight I'd rather not carry.
- And this one might be a bit silly, but I think they look absolutely awful!

I'd like to think I'm young and fit enough to be able to carry a fair bit on my person, I pack light and I certainly don't expect to be holding my mates up. That said I'm grateful for the advice even if it wasn't what I'd like to hear and I will take it on board.

Any more opinions/ideas would be great, and if anyone else has done this sort of thing without a pannier I'd like to hear about your experiences!

@ Alphablue - thanks for the info, good to know I can get a pannier to fit the bike if it does really come to it

Richard Barrett

You don't say why you don't like panniers - Is it the weight, the bulk or what?

They are the be all and end all of cycle touring. In fact part of the attraction is carrying everything you need with you under your own steam. Just keep it as light as possible with a 2/3 season down sleeping bag; an ultralight weight tent and try not to carry much if any food or cooking gear. My personal attitude to touring is that I'm saving so much money by not taking the car and by camping or staying in hostels - I may as well live large and eat out.

PS If your mates end up carrying your gear - they wont be mates after the first couple of days[/img]

alfablue

Hi Fermion, I understand your outlook, and I understand as a young person you may even see this as a weakness, but being comfy is no bad thing whilst doing something that is supposed to be a pleasure.

Hassle - it isn't really a hassle - they are convenient, easier to open a pannier than unhitch backpack any time you want something. They don't really slow you down, it could even be more aero than a backpack.

Money: Yes, I understand, £50-£70 would do it, and I would think its money well spent, but I can see this looks unnecessary if you don't actually like them.

Weight - well about 2kg-2.5kg on the bags and rack. Still worth it - weight is only really noticeable on hills and under acceleration, once at speed it makes no difference, you can go at the same speeds.

Looking awful: well, I actually like the look - its a utility thing, I like the look of my naked carbon race bike, but also love the look of my long distance tourer, set up to do the job its for.

I think it may be an age thing

fermion

Alfablue, thanks for the response, you've been very helpful.

You may be right about the age thing, at 18 I guess I feel like comfort isn't a huge issue, although in fairness I've never done this sort of mileage on the bike so maybe I'm underestimating what I'm getting myself into.

Maybe they are less hassle than I am expecting, I can just imagine them being rather bulky and getting in my way and as something to be avoided if possible. As for money, I know £50-£70 isn't a lot but this trip is beginning to get more expensive by the day, in full time education with only a weekend job any cost is something I'm trying to avoid. As for weight, again I'm probably placing more importance on this than I maybe should, although we would like to go some way through the alps and for this reason I'm keen to minimise weight if at all possible, unfortunately minimising weight seems to bring increased costs And as for the looks thing, maybe its because this is my first and only road bike, but I think it looks absolutely gorgeous and the thought of adding panniers makes me think I'm turning it into some sort of granny bike.

mroli

Remember that the rack doesn't have to stay on it - once you're done - take panniers off and put them back on the next time.

I know exactly how you feel about thinking that they're not necessary - I thought the same, but try and do a long distance with a backpack (the sweat, the strain, the chafing) and do the same thing with panniers and it is SO much more pleasant. Perhaps borrow one of your mates' bikes and have a look at what it's like - you'll find it isn't as bad as you think.

alfablue

Hi Fermion

I have sons in their early 20's and they would have shared your views till recently I have toured with them off road through Wales when they were 11 and 13 so they have done some hard core stuff, but now they are "getting old" they are learning to value a bit of comfort.

I understand the financial restrictions, and also the "granny bike" thing - it is easily restored!

Anyway, if you do go the pannier route, I have a Tortec Ultralite rack you can have for the price of the postage, just let me know if and when.

amaferanga

Have you actually tried cycling 100 miles with the stuff you'll be taking on tour in a backpack? Even packing light you'll likely have >10kg on your back. That WILL be uncomfortable.

Now try cycling 100 miles with >10kg either in a rackpack or panniers. After a few miles you'll barely notice it.

GyatsoLa

Agree with all the comments here - carrying a 10kg+ load on a backpack would be very uncomfortable and a very bad ergonomic solution. There are numerous ways of traveling light on a road bike - I've used saddlebag and (small) backpack combinations, but the most satisfactory set up I've found is two light (Ortlieb frontrollers) on a rear rack. After the first day or so you practically forget they are there.

boblo

Someone above suggested trying it. Can you borrow a rack/panniers to try it out?

If not, you've been offerred a rack for post (very generous). Bungee a small rucksack on this with your expected load and try on a ride at the distance you intend to do on your trip. Repeat with the sac on your back and draw your own conclusion on what you think you can stand.

The general consensus is touring multi day, long distances with a rucksack on your back is not a good idea and may spoil your trip. MTBers only really carry spares/grub/waterproofs so they are not carrying any real weight. Carrying on your back will certainly make you feel more 'battered' at the end of each day compared to carrying the weight on your bike.

You've asked for the advice but you don't have to take it :-)

Bodhbh

From a looks/clutter/weight point of view, Tubus do some minimalist racks which are pretty nice looking imo, including some stainless steel, titanium models. I'm in the process of building up my first road bike and I think I'll be getting one of these for some credit card touring.

They are not cheap and if saving costs I guess spending close to 100quid on a rack is not really what is required, however to take the long view it's a one of cost if you do more of these trips and they will give you very good use.

I've did a couple of tours with a backpack b4 I got the gear and the only negative was a wet back, however perhaps I was lucky (and I don't have a car and lug a backpack around on a daily basis also), but also I was solo and if it was a mistake I could bail out. Your mates might not be happy if you end up being the weak link lugging your pack about?

andymiller

If you were going on a short tour or you weren't carrying camping kit, then I'd say you could get away with a backpack. Unless you have a bad back/weak core muscles nothing awful will happen to you - except that you might find out why so many people opt for panniers.

There are people who swear by saddle bags and I know that people have done longish tours with just a saddlebag and about 8kgs of stuff. But getting that light ain't easy.

One option you might want to consider is a rack and then a drybag (see alpkit.com) and bungee the tent and bits and pieces to it.

Or you could consider a trailer from Edinburgh Bike.

bompington

A few times over the years I've carried a rucksack on a bike when hillwalking - stash bike at one end of long (talking multi-day) walk, drive to other, cycle back at the end.
It's never been anything other than very uncomfortable, I once did about 20 miles with full expedition rucksack (about 15kg) and was nearly crippled by the time I finished.
But that was on a mountain bike, road bikes are worse: I've occasionally commuted (20 miles) with my work bag - weight about 3-4kg: it's definitely not nice.

Of course, if you're expecting your pals to carry most of your camping gear, you could always just ask them to carry all of it.

andymiller

bompington wrote:

AOf course, if you're expecting your pals to carry most of your camping gear, you could always just ask them to carry all of it.

Of course they may all be thinking that someone else will carry the tent...

fermion

Well I already have a saddlebag, its not large enough to carry anything in the way of camping equipment though. Sounds like I may have to opt for the pannier than.

Alfablue, thats very kind of you and would really help me out. I'm willing to pay a bit more than postage if required though

alfablue

Hi Femion, £10 will suffice, if you pm me your address I can send it out early next week.

andymiller

fermion wrote:

Well I already have a saddlebag, its not large enough to carry anything in the way of camping equipment though. Sounds like I may have to opt for the pannier than.

Good choice, but for the record here's the setup of a guy who toured round Europe without panniers (and on singlespeeds).



You need to scroll across to see the farily large barbag as well. Whether that setup is better than panniers is deeply debateable, but there you go.

http://pompinos.blogspot.com/

dilemna

Why don't you go on a supported tour then you wouldn't need to carry anything except drink and some food?

Not carrying what you bring and palming it off onto others is very bad form. People tend not to suffer free loaders especially when some one is young fit healthy and strong.

I would take the offer of the very cheap rack and then get some front panniers which are smaller such as Altura Arrans - well made classic design with pockets which should be about £40.

Enjoy your oliday.

GyatsoLa

Here is a picture of an alternative set up for riding without panniers:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4239238993/

This sort of frame bag seems to be getting popular with off road lightweight touring, although I'm not sure I'd like to ride a road bike set up like that in a heavy crosswind!

andymiller

GyatsoLa wrote:

Here is a picture of an alternative set up for riding without panniers:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4239238993/

This sort of frame bag seems to be getting popular with off road lightweight touring, although I'm not sure I'd like to ride a road bike set up like that in a heavy crosswind!

And it would be a pain if you have to lift the bike over obstacles. With panniers you can at lest take the panniers off and hoist the bike onto your shoulders.

nick hanson

GyatsoLa wrote:

Here is a picture of an alternative set up for riding without panniers:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4239238993/

This sort of frame bag seems to be getting popular with off road lightweight touring, although I'm not sure I'd like to ride a road bike set up like that in a heavy crosswind!

Dear me,can you imagine riding that with any sort of wind blowing???
also you wouldnt actually get much in the centre bag without the bag bulging out & catching on your legs.
Would be most annoying.
As others have said,get panniers fitted.
You've asked more knowledgable/experienced people,& they have responded.
At the end of the day,It aint a race you're attending,Its a TOUR :roll:
Also,Its a bit unfair the others carrying your camping kit for you,don't you think?
when i've toured with others & shared the tent,we have split the tent to carry between us,Eg posts & liner in one load,Outer & pegs in the other load

LittleB0b

fermion wrote:

Assuming I didn't have to carry a tent as will hopefully be sleeping in my friends 3 man one,

Very cheeky! I hope you're giving your friends much love for them carrying your shelter for you.

If i was traveling with 3 people and a 3 man tent it would be getting divided up between everyone. (1 person takes inner, 1 takes outer, 1 takes poles and pegs) - either that or all take turns to carry.