¡You mess with Valverde, we mess with you!

Kléber
Kléber Posts: 6,842
edited February 2010 in Pro race
The Tour of Murcia has said no Italian teams are allowed.

"There will be no Italian teams participating as a result of Valverde not let him compete in this country",says race organiser Paco Guzman.

Whether any Italians were planning to ride, I don't know, since only Acqua e Sapone made the journey last year. But this is a stupid gesture, the worst kind of response. I hope McQuaid gets on the case and does something.
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Comments

  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    Could get more petty and nasty, if the Italians go tit for tat.
    Spain cannot afford this daft response. It has already lost a hatful of stage races.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • VinceEager
    VinceEager Posts: 247
    jesus christ....cycling is a strange sport sometimes.
    ...the bicycle is the most efficient machine ever created: Converting calories into gas, a bicycle gets the equivalent of three thousand miles per gallon...
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    that is so childish
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • dulldave
    dulldave Posts: 949
    That's an idiotic response. Valverde is banned for a doping offence.

    What does that say about Guzman's attitude to doping?
    Scottish and British...and a bit French
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Spain.........rope........enough


    What on earth do the clean Spanish riders make of it all? They all seem so supportive and friendly with each other (eg worlds, Olympics) and yet it must wind up Carlos Sanchez. Has he ever spoken out against Valverde?
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    As an Spaniard I think its quite an stupid and childish development and most people's comments from Marca seem to agree with me too (although not al!!! :oops: )
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  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    CAS have ruled the ban cannot be extended, no?

    I don't think any cyclists have spoken out against Valverde particularly.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,477
    I'm a cyclist and I think he's a dope cheat who has received protection from the Spanish authorities to evade justice. Thankfully CONI have shown him for what he is and hopefully CAS will rule on his case in favour of the UCI extending that ban worldwide.

    How's that for you, Iain? :wink:
  • Unsheath
    Unsheath Posts: 49
    This will be in the 5 dumbest things that happened in cycling in 2010...
  • brakelever
    brakelever Posts: 158
    andyp judge and jury then :oops: case not proven yet against valverde , lets wait and see !
  • Bakunin
    Bakunin Posts: 868
    This may be the start of WWIII.
  • dulldave
    dulldave Posts: 949
    brakelever wrote:
    andyp judge and jury then :oops: case not proven yet against valverde , lets wait and see !

    'Case not proven' isn't the words I'd use. Something like 'loopholes and technicalities not fully explored' is more like it
    Scottish and British...and a bit French
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    andyp wrote:
    I'm a cyclist and I think he's a dope cheat who has received protection from the Spanish authorities to evade justice. Thankfully CONI have shown him for what he is and hopefully CAS will rule on his case in favour of the UCI extending that ban worldwide.

    How's that for you, Iain? :wink:

    Git.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE60D4OF20100114

    Does this mean there will be a separate hearing on this matter or have CASE binned it entirely?

    I agree he's likely a doper who's escaped justice, but CONI aren't after justice, just a bit of revenge.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    dulldave wrote:
    brakelever wrote:
    andyp judge and jury then :oops: case not proven yet against valverde , lets wait and see !

    'Case not proven' isn't the words I'd use. Something like 'loopholes and technicalities not fully explored' is more like it

    but those loopholes and technicalities are the rules. Either hes broken the rules or not.

    much like others who we can prove scientifically is at fault are still racing because the rules / law cannont support the aqusation. Valverdes fine let him race in peace.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    No, the rules are flawed. The UCI and IOC have both made seperate formal requests for the full documents from the Spanish judicial authorities and the Spanish cycling federation but the Spanish are refusing to release the dossier to them. In other words, due process and the rule of law is being stymied by the Spanish. They're sitting on the files.
  • shinyhelmut
    shinyhelmut Posts: 1,364
    markwalker wrote:
    but those loopholes and technicalities are the rules. Either hes broken the rules or not.

    Nope, the loopholes and technicalities are why he's escaped punishment. There would appear to be plenty of evidence he broke the rules, it's just that most of the evidence is locked in a judges filing cabinet in Spain.
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    Oh dear.
    Perhaps this is the first stage in ASO justifying only inviting French riders to the Tour?!
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,477
    Ivan Basso and Michele Scarponi were convicted of doping using the evidence that is also available in the Valverde case. I'd love to hear what Basso thinks of this, but of course he won't say anything as he keeps quiet on doping issues.

    As Kleber says, he's escaped justice due to protection from the Spanish authorities. If the UCI had teeth they'd consider action against the Spanish Cycling Federation for bringing the sport into disrepute.

    It's a farce.
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    On the contrary - Basso has made it clear that he feels very resentful of the fact that he has been convicted and served a lengthy ban during his 'prime years', whilst there are other riders who have evaded punishment. Whilst he has never named names, it is very clear to whom he is referring to. By "prime years", he has referred to both palmares and earning potential.

    How much money will Valverde have made during a period when he could've (or indeed should've!) been serviving a ban? He's won various small stage races, the Dauphine, the Vuelta, Liege, Spanish RR champs etc etc.

    I do sympathise with Basso and others on this one - the Spanish authorities have been a disgrace.
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    Kléber wrote:
    No, the rules are flawed. The UCI and IOC have both made seperate formal requests for the full documents from the Spanish judicial authorities and the Spanish cycling federation but the Spanish are refusing to release the dossier to them. In other words, due process and the rule of law is being stymied by the Spanish. They're sitting on the files.

    They may be flawed rules but they are the rules. Until thyere amended then they form the framework within which the athletes work. some might find it distasteful but without them peoples livings could be removed by indignant ragings on the internet or bars.

    Again other athletes have raced and won the tour with actual proven scientific evidence of EPO use and are still welcomed by much of the public.

    Balanced views over, i shall return to my usual mix of bigotry and nationalism
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    Well, the bottom line is this whole affair seems to have kicked off and the politics of cycling will go into overdrive, with the Spanish set to get toe-to-toe with the Italians.

    The message from Spain is clear - they turn a blind eye to cheats, as long as they are succesful.

    Not good.
  • dulldave
    dulldave Posts: 949
    But we're not talking about the IOC and the UCI. We're talking about CONI. According to its rules, Valverde is a doper serving a ban.

    And nobody seems to be disputing the fact that Valverde doped. Any team with a strong ethical stance against doping should boycott the event in protest.
    Scottish and British...and a bit French
  • bipedal
    bipedal Posts: 466
    iainf72 wrote:
    CAS have ruled the ban cannot be extended, no?

    That's not strictly the case is it? They said they wouldn't extend it in that hearing (beyond the scope I guess, it being Valverde who was appealing) but they didn't say that an extension would never happen... Look at the Mekon: his French ban got extended by the UCI and CAS OKed it... So, Valv.Piti's Italian ban could well go global in the next hearing... At least that's what i thought they said!
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    markwalker wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    No, the rules are flawed. The UCI and IOC have both made seperate formal requests for the full documents from the Spanish judicial authorities and the Spanish cycling federation but the Spanish are refusing to release the dossier to them. In other words, due process and the rule of law is being stymied by the Spanish. They're sitting on the files.

    They may be flawed rules but they are the rules. Until thyere amended then they form the framework within which the athletes work. some might find it distasteful but without them peoples livings could be removed by indignant ragings on the internet or bars.

    Again other athletes have raced and won the tour with actual proven scientific evidence of EPO use and are still welcomed by much of the public.
    Balanced views over, i shall return to my usual mix of bigotry and nationalism

    Is a big bag full of his (DNA cross checked) blood in a noted doping doctor's fridge not scientific proof?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • rvokes
    rvokes Posts: 36
    hmm, according to the spanish constitution you are innocent until proven guilty BEYOND resonable doubt.
    the spanish law system does run very slowly. I dont agree with guzman's attitude, its not the italian teams fault that CONI have decided to act against valverde, but, since he is a bit racist(i know him quite well) i can see where he's coming from.
    bttm line IMO is that he ought not have excluded the italian teams, but as the organiser its his perogative, and his friendship with valverde reflect his attitude.
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    rvokes wrote:
    hmm, according to the spanish constitution you are innocent until proven guilty BEYOND resonable doubt.
    the spanish law system does run very slowly. I dont agree with guzman's attitude, its not the italian teams fault that CONI have decided to act against valverde, but, since he is a bit racist(i know him quite well) i can see where he's coming from.
    bttm line IMO is that he ought not have excluded the italian teams, but as the organiser its his perogative, and his friendship with valverde reflect his attitude.

    A Spaniard. racist against Italians. The mind boggles.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    Probably goes back to the Four Years War of the 1500s................long memories, those Spaniards!
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    According to Cyclingnews Caisse d'Epargne, Euskaltel, Footon, Xacobeo and Andalucia are not entering either because of a dispute over safety and appearance money. Is Guzman deliberately trying to nobble his own race or something?!?

    Spanish cycling is a shambles.
  • Dgh
    Dgh Posts: 180
    The Spanish cycling establishment simply doesn't seem to get the doping issue.

    I was in Spain shortly after Maribel Moreno's positive for EPO came out, and a cyclign magazine I bought there was full of articles supporting her, critising an govt minister who asked her to "name names", and complaining about the whereabout rules. I haven't heard Valverde being called upon to address the issue of whether or not he doped, as opposed to legal technicalities ( I am a lawyer, by the way).

    The Spanish public, on the other hand, possibly do get it, as public interest in cycling seems to have diminished there (despite 4 consecutive Tour wins).

    What cycling could really use this year is Wiggins to wint he Tour and Gilbert to clean up in the classics and the worlds.
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    Dgh wrote:
    The Spanish cycling establishment simply doesn't seem to get the doping issue.

    I was in Spain shortly after Maribel Moreno's positive for EPO came out, and a cyclign magazine I bought there was full of articles supporting her, critising an govt minister who asked her to "name names", and complaining about the whereabout rules. I haven't heard Valverde being called upon to address the issue of whether or not he doped, as opposed to legal technicalities ( I am a lawyer, by the way).

    The Spanish public, on the other hand, possibly do get it, as public interest in cycling seems to have diminished there (despite 4 consecutive Tour wins).

    What cycling could really use this year is Wiggins to wint he Tour and Gilbert to clean up in the classics and the worlds.

    And you wouldnt suspect he doped?

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