HGV as weapon

alfablue

Not strictly commuting, but it was at commuting time:

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12678314

W1

Not nice to read. Back in 2008 a coach driver twice deliberately swerved accross two lanes of trafffic and attempted to run me into the kerb. I could see in his mirrors that he was watching me, knowing exactly what he was doing. This was all because we'd had a chat at the previous set of lights as to why he'd felt the need to blast his horn at me as he overook me (far too close and in the face of oncoming traffic).

It still makes my blood boil to this day, and is by far the worst driving I have been on the receiving end of.

alfablue

Jeez W1! It's madness, I'm still fuming and upset. I mean, fine if they get angry, and we may have offended them (just for existing probably) but this behaviour is about as dangerous as pulling a gun on us. Totally disproportionate.

W1

Indeed - personally I can't see any justification for wrapping up incidents such as these as "motoring offences" when they meet all the criteria for assault, ABH and up to and including attempted murder! Had I gone under the wheels of the coach the driver (at most) would probably have got death by dangerous driving, ignoring his obvious intentions.

Just dug out and re-read the e-mail I drafted (but didn't send) to the coach company and the adrenalin is pumping again....

ride_whenever

It's because they can get away with it. Police will do bugger all, probably let him off with a "company internal investigation" He was probably hopped up on drugs, and infringing several HGV laws, as they seem to mostly do that.

Vigilante justice FTW. Drag him out of the cab and kerb stomp his face until he gets the point. It is the ONLY way to deal with bullies.

kurako

Pretty disgusting behaviour from the driver. You did well to get photos and report it to the police though. Unfortunately, some idiot motorists just see a bike and feel they have to overtake at all costs. I got so p'd off with aggressive drivers in London I got myself a helmet cam. They can be had for about 50-60 quid these days.

alfablue

I had to restrain my son, he was ballistic! He feels ashamed for losing it, but I have been telling him it is natural in the circumstances.

I don't want to criticise the police, but the "talk to his company" line means they won't be pursuing any driving offence I suppose (and I think he may be self employed anyway). There were at least 6 witnesses, but presumably that isn't enough. Its like he threatened us with a deadly weapon, yet the response is like his library books are overdue :twisted:

Skippy2309

i had a similar incident to W1 but it was a bus. the guy did a dodgy manoeuvre as I was passing forcing me to nearly end up in oncoming traffic, I shook my head in disbelief. got to the lights and decided I need to just get away from him. so went hell for leather as I know I can beat the next set as they change in a weird sequence.

Get through them and think I am good to go. heading down to Nottinghill gate from marble arch, I have 3 more incidents with said driver. he was cutting across and pulling close to the kerb. every time I tried to pass he would overtake dangerously. even hanging back I would end up catching up. scariest moment I was stopped at the lights - about a metre from the kerb, there was a cab on the right hand lane. said bus driver squeezes into the gap and pulls across!!! i just managed to unclip the right foot and pull myself to the kerb. look up and the guys just looking with a smile.

was not my favourite commute. now I steer well clear of bus drivers.

alfablue

Kurako wrote:

Pretty disgusting behaviour from the driver. You did well to get photos and report it to the police though. Unfortunately, some idiot motorists just see a bike and feel they have to overtake at all costs. I got so p'd off with aggressive drivers in London I got myself a helmet cam. They can be had for about 50-60 quid these days.

I was adamant that we had to do something, however impotent it feels. Actually, to me, this was beyond the "overtake at all costs" thing (which I have witnessed often), the way he came down the hill leaning on the horn, and the way he was doing exaggerated laughing and clapping gestures when he finally stopped, make me believe this was a deliberate attack, not a by-product of impatient driving.

Ironically, I just bought myself and sons Muvi cameras but weren't using them - they were meant for fun days mtb'ing / snorkelling etc.

Sewinman

I totally understand your anger, and I would have behaved just like your son...but from the police point of view what crime was committed?...other than being a total d*ck.

Bikerbaboon

some US i know but i cant find the UK stuff for it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangerment
http://www.motordefenceteam.co.uk/offen ... riving.htm

and at a push
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault

Eau Rouge

Sewinman wrote:

I totally understand your anger, and I would have behaved just like your son...but from the police point of view what crime was committed?...other than being a total d*ck.

Google tells me that Sections 4 or 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 might apply. They cover threatening beahviour.

alfablue

Sewinman wrote:

I totally understand your anger, and I would have behaved just like your son...but from the police point of view what crime was committed?...other than being a total d*ck.

I would suggest that the definitions below, apply. And the most appropriate one being dangerous driving, obviously. Their point of view may be affected by disinterest, but the driver committed at least one motoring offence, and also at least one offence under common law (assault and battery). Probably more offences could be identified. I don't really get where you're coming from.

"3 If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or public place, he is guilty of an offence"

"Prosecution for careless driving will be appropriate when the manner of driving demonstrates a serious miscalculation or a disregard for road safety, taking into account all the circumstances including road, traffic and / or weather conditions."

"Dangerous driving is defined as driving in a manner which falls FAR below that of a competent driver and driving in such a way that it would be obvious to a competent driver that there is a serious risk of personal injury or serious damage to property"

W1

Sewinman wrote:

I totally understand your anger, and I would have behaved just like your son...but from the police point of view what crime was committed?...other than being a total d*ck.

I can't see why it couldn't be assault - putting you in fear of being battered. It's interesting that to threaten someone in the street can get you nicked pretty quickly, but do it with a car and the penalties are lower - no justification in my eyes.

A driver has to be a monumental idiot to knowingly endager someone's life like that, we can only hope that one day he does it to the wrong person or in front of the police. Most bullies are cowards and it doesn't take much to show them up for it.

W1

Skippy2309 wrote:

i had a similar incident to W1 but it was a bus. the guy did a dodgy manoeuvre as I was passing forcing me to nearly end up in oncoming traffic, I shook my head in disbelief. got to the lights and decided I need to just get away from him. so went hell for leather as I know I can beat the next set as they change in a weird sequence.

Get through them and think I am good to go. heading down to Nottinghill gate from marble arch, I have 3 more incidents with said driver. he was cutting across and pulling close to the kerb. every time I tried to pass he would overtake dangerously. even hanging back I would end up catching up. scariest moment I was stopped at the lights - about a metre from the kerb, there was a cab on the right hand lane. said bus driver squeezes into the gap and pulls across!!! i just managed to unclip the right foot and pull myself to the kerb. look up and the guys just looking with a smile.

was not my favourite commute. now I steer well clear of bus drivers.

I also had a massive row with a bus driver who overtook me and then pulled into a stop whilst he was still beside me. The fact that he couldn't understand simple logic meant that it was futile, and I don't bother anymore because that seems to be a common theme with arrogant drivers.

The problem is that there are such few consequences - they won't get sacked without independent witnesses, they won't get done by the police, and unless they actually kill or injure someone no-one seems to care. When I got my phone out to photograph my coach attacker his response was "the numbers on the f'ing side".

Will Snow

W1 wrote:

Skippy2309 wrote:

i had a similar incident to W1 but it was a bus.

hit the emergency stop if you have a bus getting to close. Normally can find it on the side or under the bonnet at the back (obv has to be stopped) hehehe

Paulie W

I think Alfa's experience is particularly horrific because it doesnt seem to have any preamble. There's no previous altercation with the driver which could have led in some way to this behaviour. I think many of us have had a row with a driver over their actions which has then escalated in more or less serious ways. In these circumstances, it doesnt make their behaviour any more acceptable, but you can sometimes see the thought process, however messed up that might be.

alfablue

Paulie W wrote:

I think Alfa's experience is particularly horrific because it doesnt seem to have any preamble. There's no previous altercation with the driver which could have led in some way to this behaviour.

That's right, he just came down the hill with an instant death wish for us! Never encountered him before.

chuckcork

Having seen enough dangerous driving when on club runs (drivers overtaking with minimal vision of the road ahead, then cutting and in and missing clubmates by <4 inches to avoid hitting oncoming traffic) I kind of wonder at what point we all start using helmet cameras?

Especially seeing as the response to my enquiry to Surrey Police over a dangerous driving incident was that it would take at least 2 people independently to report a dangerous driver before they'd even think about doing anything, it was such a prevalent problem for them that they simply wouldn't think about it otherwise.

Funny that other forms of crime take precedence given the cost nationally of "accidents" in terms of death and injury etc most of which must come from people being d!cks, and given that you're more likely to do on the roads than be murdered. Kill a 10 year old with a knife and your a murderer, do it with a car and its a statistic?

the_hundredth_idiot

I bought a (very) cheap helmet cam on eBay just before Xmas. It's sat in its box since then - I really ought to get it out, figure out how to use it and start using it. If I get some c0ck like this guy trying to kill me, it would be nice to have some evidence.

Christophe3967

Quite apart from anything else, he appears to be using front fog lights (one of which isn't working) in normal visibility. I think this is an offence unless the law has been changed. In any case, it gives you an idea of the type of ignoramus you're dealing with.

Hope the police do their job properly on this. Good luck.

cjcp

Bl00dy hell. What is the point of sounding the horn in the first place and then continuing to sound it whilst overtaking and therefore not in full control of the vehicle?

Fwiw, I don't think your son should feel ashamed that he "lost it". I'm not even sure he "lost it"; I think he was very reserved. "Lost it" describes the actions of a cyclist on the junction of Fenchurch St and Gracechurch St last year who smacked the wing mirror off a taxi and then had a fight with the taxi driver...

Can you request details of the Police investigation so you can find out who his employers are? There must be some way of tracing the reg.? Can you bring private prosecutions for this sort of thing?

Wallace1492

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

I bought a (very) cheap helmet cam on eBay just before Xmas. It's sat in its box since then - I really ought to get it out, figure out how to use it and start using it. If I get some c0ck like this guy trying to kill me, it would be nice to have some evidence.

Me too - is it the cheap version of the MuVu?

MadammeMarie

I have to stop reading this b/c my blood is boiling!

Throw your D-locks to their windscreen!! They can't do anything while eating glass and with their face covered in blood! :evil: :x

kurako

MadammeMarie wrote:

I have to stop reading this b/c my blood is boiling!

Throw your D-locks to their windscreen!! They can't do anything while eating glass and with their face covered in blook! :evil: :x

MM. I wouldn't want to cross you!

Although I understand the sentiment I find it's better to stay calm and talk to the driver. Tw*ts like that are often frustrated and want to take it out on anyone. They thrive on confrontation.

Get a camera. Tell them you're filming and ask something along the lines off 'What's the problem?', 'What did I do wrong?' or 'Do you think that was safe?'

If they still act like a c0ck after that you've got evidence and good grounds for a complaint.

teagar

I've mentoined my various incidents involving drivers assaulting me, pushing me off my bike etc on here before.

Only advise I can give is that if they start trying to run you over, sod trying to get away, get off your bike! and

Try to stay as calm as you can (much easier said than done).

I've also found, that apologising, however wrong or right you are, works.

If someone starts going nuts, apologising, for me at least, has been the most effective disarmament. I'm all for not letting people get away with being dangerous etc, but I'd rather not let it get to the stage where they do want to run me over or assault me in the first place. When it has got serious, my experience is that the witnesses who were there, once the fog has settled, arn't likely to want to come forward as witnesses when the police come calling.
For what it's worth, i used to fight back. I rarely came off better. It only escalated the situation, from them abusing me to them trying to door me/ run me over etc. It got to the point where I was fighting back so much I became the bell end who was causing all the hassle.

MadammeMarie

Another joke from our "justice"!!! :evil: :x


http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/4885413.Burnley_road_rage_teen_targeted_cycling_police_chief/

the_hundredth_idiot

Wallace1492 wrote:

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

I bought a (very) cheap helmet cam on eBay just before Xmas. It's sat in its box since then - I really ought to get it out, figure out how to use it and start using it. If I get some c0ck like this guy trying to kill me, it would be nice to have some evidence.

Me too - is it the cheap version of the MuVu?

Yeah - that's the one. Instructions are amusing but not especially helpful. But how difficult can it be ... ? :oops:

MadammeMarie

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

I bought a (very) cheap helmet cam on eBay just before Xmas. It's sat in its box since then - I really ought to get it out, figure out how to use it and start using it. If I get some c0ck like this guy trying to kill me, it would be nice to have some evidence.

Go for it! I got one of the Muvi ones, attached to my helmet. I'm having lots of fun editing the videos.

Oh, and if you film any bad driving - and even cyclists being idiots - post it on www.fightbaddriving.co.uk!

Enjoy the camera!

Bassjunkieuk

I unfortunately just think it's par for the course. I've had so many incidents with cars passing far to close that I've just come to expect it now and actually get a surprise if I have a driver show some respect. On the occasions where they do pass properly or let me filter I'll always show my appreciation with a thumbs up.

I once saw a cyclist heading along Kennington Road having an argument with a crazy coach driver who had repeatedly come thundering past him with inches to spare in the bus lane. The first time he did it the cyclist politely knocked on his drivers window and asked him to show a bit more respect (this being the rush hour and Kennington Road is usually chock full of various cyclist, not all as competent or comfortable riding in traffic)
He then did it again further down the road and this time got out the coach to yell at the rider!

I also had a bus driver race round me to pull in at a bus stop about 10 yards down the road, at the time I was going at a good pace (20-22mph, only short commute that day!) I considered knocking on his window to have a word but there where cars trying to overtake as I pulled up alongside. I instead took the bus number and reg plate and repeated it in my head (only had about 30 seconds riding left to get home.....) and send a complaint e-mail when I got in.

A few days later I got the standard cut-n-paste response from TFL.....