plucky brit or whinging scot ? **contains spoilers**

spen666

fatandwheezing wrote:

I'm sure the biggest thing on Murrays mind was that some people don't want him to win cos of something he said when he was a teenager in reply to a loaded question.

I also don't understand the hatred towards Hamilton for leaving the country. Button doesn't live here, neither did Coulthard, Schumacher left Germany for Switzerland, but for some reason someone always brings it up as a reason to hate him.

A loaded question?

Whats loaded about asking him who he is going to support

He could have said
a) England
b) no onec0 England's opponents


If it was meant as he and his apologist claim as a joke, then why not apologise for the offence he caused to many English persons? His lack of an apology for the offence caused ttells me all I need t oknow

cee

erm...

hold on a minute...

who was offended....and why?

He is not english. why should he support england? in fact...if he is not english, then it would have been just as offensive to the paraguayans if he had said england as you say it was to english people

if england were not in a competition that scotland were (maybe curling or haggis hurlin' or something..) would every english person support scotland...of course not.

you can choose to not support anyone you like. no-one cares. no-one would be offended.

or are you not really all that offended at all?


Scotland and France have a historically good relationship. Scotland and England have a historicaly...erm...difficult...relationship. For that reason, it would make sense for scots to support france rather than england once scotland don't make it into the world cup.

mcj78

Yeah, he is a bit dour admittedly - he does take his tennis helluva seriously though, I'd like to see a bit more McEnroe in him as opposed to all the moodiness, it'd probably endear him to more folk too if he occasionally went bananas & trashed the court

As for the "loaded question" - I & probably every Scottish person I know would have said the same, furthermore, probably every English person I know would have expected that response, including the interviewer - doesn't mean we hate English people, we just sometimes wish they were as utterly shite at football as we are. :P

Why does anyone care if Andy Murray wants England to get pumped at football anyway?

RichN95.

spen666 wrote:

why take it with a pinch of salt? He chose to make that anti English remark

his apologists claim it was a joke - he's never apologised for any offense caused by it
#

furthermore, Murray was representing Murray in the Australian OPen - he's not representing England, Scotland or Britain


Redgrave @ Olympics was representing Great Britain

This is nothing to do with how happy someone comes over. It is to do with Murray making anti English remarks

Here's an article by the journalist who did the interview in which the bit of banter took place - it's about the third time he's written the same thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1194310/DES-KELLY-For-time--Scot-Andy-Murray-traitor.html

Anyone who thinks he's anti-english is a complete moron to be honest

spen666

cee wrote:

....

if england were not in a competition that scotland were (maybe curling or haggis hurlin' or something..) would every english person support scotland...of course not.

you can choose to not support anyone you like. no-one cares. no-one would be offended.

or are you not really all that offended at all?


Scotland and France have a historically good relationship. Scotland and England have a historicaly...erm...difficult...relationship. For that reason, it would make sense for scots to support france rather than england once scotland don't make it into the world cup.

There is a huge difference between not supporting anyone in a tournament or supporting a specific team AND what Murray did- ie say he was supporting anyone who played against England

That is simply anti English. It is indeed his right to be anti English. I have no problem with that.

In the same way as its my right to be anti Murray

spen666

mcj78 wrote:

....
Why does anyone care if Andy Murray wants England to get pumped at football anyway?

Why does anyone care if English people want Murray to get pumped at tennis?

mcj78

spen666 wrote:

mcj78 wrote:

....
Why does anyone care if Andy Murray wants England to get pumped at football anyway?

Why does anyone care if English people want Murray to get pumped at tennis?

I don't think anyone does, I certainly don't & i'm pretty sure Andy Murray doesn't either - and judging by the previous comments not that many English people (on here) do want Murray to recieve said pumping. I really don't mind if you dislike the guy for whatever reason & want him to fail in his selected sporting discipline, that's your choice & it has absolutely no bearing on me, but I don't really see why you would use a comment clearly meant as a joke (& accepted as this by most) to jump in & accuse him of being anti-English.

spen666

mcj78 wrote:

spen666 wrote:

mcj78 wrote:

....
Why does anyone care if Andy Murray wants England to get pumped at football anyway?

Why does anyone care if English people want Murray to get pumped at tennis?

I don't think anyone does, I certainly don't & i'm pretty sure Andy Murray doesn't either - and judging by the previous comments not that many English people (on here) do want Murray to recieve said pumping. I really don't mind if you dislike the guy for whatever reason & want him to fail in his selected sporting discipline, that's your choice & it has absolutely no bearing on me, but I don't really see why you would use a comment clearly meant as a joke (& accepted as this by most) to jump in & accuse him of being anti-English.

firstly, i don't accept what he said as a joke, despite repeated attempts at revising history on his behalf by many people

Secondly, if it was meant as a joke, then why not apologise for any offence caused.

There are many thousands of people who want Murray to lose as a result of his remark.

Look on sites like facebook and see the number of anti Murray pages/ groups

Wherther his remark was meant as a joke or not, it was seen as offensive by many English people

cee

spen666 wrote:

There is a huge difference between not supporting anyone in a tournament or supporting a specific team AND what Murray did- ie say he was supporting anyone who played against England

That is simply anti English. It is indeed his right to be anti English. I have no problem with that.

In the same way as its my right to be anti Murray

So what? the english are anti-everyf*cker-except-the-english....

anti german, anti french, anti argentinian...

in every world cup, english commentators will be making all these kind of statements, even after england have been knocked out......

and as for the anti murray facebook sites....this is just daily mail behaviour. people who were not offended but wanted the chance to be offended so read an article by someone who someone offended and was offended that not everyone was offended. or in other words...the hard of thinking

please.

spen666

cee wrote:

spen666 wrote:

There is a huge difference between not supporting anyone in a tournament or supporting a specific team AND what Murray did- ie say he was supporting anyone who played against England

That is simply anti English. It is indeed his right to be anti English. I have no problem with that.

In the same way as its my right to be anti Murray

So what? the english are anti-everyf*cker-except-the-english....

anti german, anti french, anti argentinian...

in every world cup, english commentators will be making all these kind of statements, even after england have been knocked out......

and as for the anti murray facebook sites....this is just daily mail behaviour. people who were not offended but wanted the chance to be offended so read an article by someone who someone offended and was offended that not everyone was offended. or in other words...the hard of thinking

please.

nice way to dismiss the vies of thousands, if not millions of people

They have different views to you, so they are not worthy of being considered.

I may be English, i'm not anti French, Argentinia or German.

Nice stereotyping though


I think youu will find the Scots are far more anti English than vice versa.

mcj78

spen666 wrote:

mcj78 wrote:

spen666 wrote:

mcj78 wrote:

....
Why does anyone care if Andy Murray wants England to get pumped at football anyway?

Why does anyone care if English people want Murray to get pumped at tennis?

I don't think anyone does, I certainly don't & i'm pretty sure Andy Murray doesn't either - and judging by the previous comments not that many English people (on here) do want Murray to recieve said pumping. I really don't mind if you dislike the guy for whatever reason & want him to fail in his selected sporting discipline, that's your choice & it has absolutely no bearing on me, but I don't really see why you would use a comment clearly meant as a joke (& accepted as this by most) to jump in & accuse him of being anti-English.

firstly, i don't accept what he said as a joke, despite repeated attempts at revising history on his behalf by many people

Secondly, if it was meant as a joke, then why not apologise for any offence caused.

There are many thousands of people who want Murray to lose as a result of his remark.

Look on sites like facebook and see the number of anti Murray pages/ groups

Wherther his remark was meant as a joke or not, it was seen as offensive by many English people

Jesus, you still don't accept it was a joke - despite the interviewer, Murray & Henman (all of these people were involved in the conversation when he utterred this treasonous remark) regarding it as a joke - incidentally I haven't heard one person take offence at the question he was asked, which was a dig at Scotland not qualifying for the competition, why? Because it was a joke, that's why. If you really are so hyper-sensitive i'd hate to think of the emotional anguish you must be experiencing over events that actually matter in th world today, war, mass genocide, murder, rape etc. etc. I'm surprised you can find the time to moan about a Scottish tennis player not supporting the England football team with all that lot going on.

Oh, and if it's on facebook it certainly must be a just cause eh? like all those other just causes like those advocating running over cyclists for fun... In fact - why not spend more time on anti-Murray facebook sites than on here? At least there you'll be amongst like-minded individuals united by a common hatred of some Scottish tennis player who doesn't cheer on En-ger-lund.

markyboy2005

spen666 wrote:

cee wrote:

spen666 wrote:

There is a huge difference between not supporting anyone in a tournament or supporting a specific team AND what Murray did- ie say he was supporting anyone who played against England

That is simply anti English. It is indeed his right to be anti English. I have no problem with that.

In the same way as its my right to be anti Murray

So what? the english are anti-everyf*cker-except-the-english....

anti german, anti french, anti argentinian...

in every world cup, english commentators will be making all these kind of statements, even after england have been knocked out......

and as for the anti murray facebook sites....this is just daily mail behaviour. people who were not offended but wanted the chance to be offended so read an article by someone who someone offended and was offended that not everyone was offended. or in other words...the hard of thinking

please.

nice way to dismiss the vies of thousands, if not millions of people

They have different views to you, so they are not worthy of being considered.

I may be English, i'm not anti French, Argentinia or German.

Nice stereotyping though


I think youu will find the Scots are far more anti English than vice versa.

Isn't your last line a bit of a stereotype about Scots :shock:

cee

spen666

I didn't actually make a comment on the english view of scots....or what my views were on england and the english....

I said the english are anti everyone else! and cited germany, france and argentina...i couldn't know whether you have these thoughts, but there have been plenty of televised pundits saying anti german, french and argintinian things....

I agree that more scots are anti english than english are anti scots......

It is ingrained in our culture....out of interest, I was at Rob 'Roy' MacGregors grave on sunday....

The gravestone says 'MacGregor DESPITE THEM'.........guess who them relates to?

teagar

Hey, mcj, if I say I hate England, are you offended by me too?

Edit: Got the wrong name - should read properly.

I meant: Spen, if I say I hate England, are you offended by me too?

markyboy2005

mcj78 wrote:

spen666 wrote:

mcj78 wrote:

spen666 wrote:

mcj78 wrote:

....
Why does anyone care if Andy Murray wants England to get pumped at football anyway?

Why does anyone care if English people want Murray to get pumped at tennis?

I don't think anyone does, I certainly don't & i'm pretty sure Andy Murray doesn't either - and judging by the previous comments not that many English people (on here) do want Murray to recieve said pumping. I really don't mind if you dislike the guy for whatever reason & want him to fail in his selected sporting discipline, that's your choice & it has absolutely no bearing on me, but I don't really see why you would use a comment clearly meant as a joke (& accepted as this by most) to jump in & accuse him of being anti-English.

firstly, i don't accept what he said as a joke, despite repeated attempts at revising history on his behalf by many people

Secondly, if it was meant as a joke, then why not apologise for any offence caused.

There are many thousands of people who want Murray to lose as a result of his remark.

Look on sites like facebook and see the number of anti Murray pages/ groups

Wherther his remark was meant as a joke or not, it was seen as offensive by many English people

Jesus, you still don't accept it was a joke - despite the interviewer, Murray & Henman (all of these people were involved in the conversation when he utterred this treasonous remark) regarding it as a joke - incidentally I haven't heard one person take offence at the question he was asked, which was a dig at Scotland not qualifying for the competition, why? Because it was a joke, that's why. If you really are so hyper-sensitive i'd hate to think of the emotional anguish you must be experiencing over events that actually matter in th world today, war, mass genocide, murder, rape etc. etc. I'm surprised you can find the time to moan about a Scottish tennis player not supporting the England football team with all that lot going on.

Oh, and if it's on facebook it certainly must be a just cause eh? like all those other just causes like those advocating running over cyclists for fun... In fact - why not spend more time on anti-Murray facebook sites than on here? At least there you'll be amongst like-minded individuals united by a common hatred of some Scottish tennis player who doesn't cheer on En-ger-lund.

You are pissing into the wind here mate - I think only a personal apology and reach around from Murray will cool this guys fire....... :P

garrynolan

spen666 wrote:

Aggieboy wrote:

I think the Paraguay story should be taken with a pinch of salt and with reference to the interviewers other questions/references. Us 'Brits' have always taken the p1ss out of each other, haven't we? (and long may that banter continue!!)
If a Brits competing then I'm shouting for them. If Murray's character is to be miserable and thats what it takes, so what! Sir Steve Redgrave was hardly happiness personified when competing, was he?

why take it with a pinch of salt? He chose to make that anti English remark

his apologists claim it was a joke - he's never apologised for any offense caused by it
#

furthermore, Murray was representing Murray in the Australian OPen - he's not representing England, Scotland or Britain


Redgrave @ Olympics was representing Great Britain

This is nothing to do with how happy someone comes over. It is to do with Murray making anti English remarks[/quote

I think you'll find that in the Olympics Redgrave ( and the rest of the team) were representing the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland... just to be pedantic.

sampras38

holmeboy wrote:

Leave Andy alone, just like Wiggin's he good but just not good enough, YET!

This is my sport so I'm obviously quite passionate about it. The whole Murray British/Scotish thing gets on my nerves and tbh, I really couldn't give a rats ass where he comes from. Tennis has never really been much of a patriotic sport so what difference does it make. Even when I've been to watch davis cup matches involving the Brits I'll quietly be rooting for players I prefer their games over the Brits. Im aware we haven't had a male Slam winner since Fred Perry but who cares.

As for Murray as a player, he is world class and probably top 3, but I really can't see him winning a Slam unless he happens to meet a below par Fed. Nadal seems to be waining now because of his knees and then you have the likes of Del Potro, Djokovic and even Cilic in the frame now. I would bet my life savings that Del Potro gets another before Murray get's his first.

Murray can beat Fed in best of 3 smaller events but as all champions do, Fed just raises his game for the slams. Sampras did it too.

Murray is an awesome tactition who plays in a way that frustrates the big names, but he's too tentative when it really matters and his 2nd serve is shocking. Waiting for mistakes from the likes of federer will not get the job done.

Something else that makes laugh is that neither Murray, Rusedski or even Henman to a certain extent were products of the LTA. Rusedski was already a pro when he came here from canada and Murray went to Spain when he was 14 and learnt most of his trade there. his mum was clever enough to get him out of the UK and into a more competitive environment, rather than amongst all the snivelling spoilt brats this country seems to churn out from the LTA.

garrynolan

Posted above before I read the rest of the posts - sorry.
Anyway... I'm from N.I. and have loads of reasons to be anti-English/Scottish/Welsh. But I'm not. Some of the posts show a distinct flavour of some people in N.I. - they will go out of their way to be offended. No matter what is said, or how it is said, people will read into it what they want. Looking in from the outside I believe that the Little Englander attitude still exists to a fair degree in the English psyche. I know I'l get lambasted for saying that but it won't change my mind. As to who should support who - do we really care? Everyone knows that if a UK person is winning they are seen in the (English) media as either British or English; if they are losing they are suddenly Scottish, Welsh or Irish - not even NORTHERN Irish. That's a plain fact of life - we can just deal with it or get our knickers in a twist. Personally, I think it's pretty funny (and sadly pathetic). That's my 2 cent worth... oh, sorry - 2 pence... we're not all in the Euro yet

spen666

mcj78 wrote:

.
....


Jesus, you still don't accept it was a joke - despite the interviewer, Murray & Henman (all of these people were involved in the conversation when he utterred this treasonous remark) regarding it as a joke - incidentally I haven't heard one person take offence at the question he was asked, which was a dig at Scotland not qualifying for the competition, why? Because it was a joke, that's why. If you really are so hyper-sensitive i'd hate to think of the emotional anguish you must be experiencing over events that actually matter in th world today, war, mass genocide, murder, rape etc. etc. I'm surprised you can find the time to moan about a Scottish tennis player not supporting the England football team with all that lot going on.

Oh, and if it's on facebook it certainly must be a just cause eh? like all those other just causes like those advocating running over cyclists for fun... In fact - why not spend more time on anti-Murray facebook sites than on here? At least there you'll be amongst like-minded individuals united by a common hatred of some Scottish tennis player who doesn't cheer on En-ger-lund.

I have no hatred of A ndy Murray at all.

All I have done is said the same think as Murray did

He supports England's opponents. I support Murray's opponents

What's the difference

you leave to brown nose him and condemn me

Strange that apparently its ok for Murray to say it, but not ok for me

spen666

teagar wrote:

Hey, mcj, if I say I hate England, are you offended by me too?

Edit: Got the wrong name - should read properly.

I meant: Spen, if I say I hate England, are you offended by me too?

Murray never said he hated England , so what's this got to do with anything?

spen666

sampras38 wrote:

...
Murray is an awesome tactition who plays in a way that frustrates the big names, but he's too tentative when it really matters and his 2nd serve is shocking. Waiting for mistakes from the likes of federer will not get the job done.

.....

Clearly frustrated Federer at the weekend!

He's simply not good enough - he's better than me, but not good enough- bit like Spurs in football

Stewie Griffin

spen666 wrote:

sampras38 wrote:

...
Murray is an awesome tactition who plays in a way that frustrates the big names, but he's too tentative when it really matters and his 2nd serve is shocking. Waiting for mistakes from the likes of federer will not get the job done.

.....

Clearly frustrated Federer at the weekend!

He's simply not good enough - he's better than me, but not good enough- bit like Spurs in football

:shock: Be still bottom lip

sampras38

spen666 wrote:

sampras38 wrote:

...
Murray is an awesome tactition who plays in a way that frustrates the big names, but he's too tentative when it really matters and his 2nd serve is shocking. Waiting for mistakes from the likes of federer will not get the job done.

.....

Clearly frustrated Federer at the weekend!

He's simply not good enough - he's better than me, but not good enough- bit like Spurs in football

No, but then as all champions do, Fed is a different player in Slams than at other smaller tournaments. Although it is well known that Murray's game does friustrate Fed and he's had a number of wins against him, just not where it counts. Murray's a great player, it's just there are others as good, if not better such as Del potro, Djokovic etc.

cee

Do you think this would even be an issue where some people are apperently offended if there was an English national player who could even compete in the top mens?

Probably not.

The British Mens No2 is way down the ranks at 171 (on the beeb today) and even he wasn't born here....Alex Bogdanovic

I would wager englishers are more eager for a wimbledon win than scottishers...

sampras38

cee wrote:

Do you think this would even be an issue where some people are apperently offended if there was an English national player who could even compete in the top mens?

Probably not.

The British Mens No2 is way down the ranks at 171 (on the beeb today) and even he wasn't born here....Alex Bogdanovic

I would wager englishers are more eager for a wimbledon win than scottishers...

Some might be, but I'm certainly not one of them. I was a huge Sampras so as long as he was winning I was happy..;-)

I liked Henman but if he lost it didn't bother me in the slightest.

cee

sampras38 wrote:

Some might be, but I'm certainly not one of them. I was a huge Sampras so as long as he was winning I was happy..;-)

I liked Henman but if he lost it didn't bother me in the slightest.

haha...i took a dislike to sampras' hair! it was all about Agassi throwing himself all over the court....

sampras38

cee wrote:

sampras38 wrote:

Some might be, but I'm certainly not one of them. I was a huge Sampras so as long as he was winning I was happy..;-)

I liked Henman but if he lost it didn't bother me in the slightest.

haha...i took a dislike to sampras' hair! it was all about Agassi throwing himself all over the court....

haha..yeah, my misses used to mock Sampras coz of his hair. I idolised him and wouldn't have a bad word said..;-)

Agassi was also a favourite of mine, particualrly when they played each other in Slams and they brought the best out of each other. I've just finished reading agassi's controversial biography, Open, and he's incredibly candid about Sampras. Admired his single-mindedness and drive to be the best.

When they were kids, around 10, 11 or so, they used to play a lot and at that time Sampras wasn't that good at all. Then over the years he transformed himself into what we know today.

It's a great read if you're interested, and one of the best sports biographies I've ever read. He's incredibly candid and revealing about all aspects of his life.

markyboy2005

spen666 wrote:

sampras38 wrote:

...
Murray is an awesome tactition who plays in a way that frustrates the big names, but he's too tentative when it really matters and his 2nd serve is shocking. Waiting for mistakes from the likes of federer will not get the job done.

.....

Clearly frustrated Federer at the weekend!

He's simply not good enough - he's better than me, but not good enough- bit like Spurs in football

So only the number 1 team/Player is "good enough" - Are you the worlds best at your job? - If not.........does that mean........god forbid........your just not good enough?

Are you even top 10, top 100 at what you do?

sampras38

shouldbeinbed wrote:

mcj78 wrote:

talented bloke but comes across as a manky human being

Not that you're in any way bitter [/quote]

meeee, little ray of sunshine that I am????

For his ability and cash I think I'd crack a smile once in a while. Most of the really top players had a streak of personality, be it Connors and Becker faffing about or McEnroe exploding on cue. You need a streak of devilment in your psyche for mass appeal to those who take a passing interest and Murray has never shown that he's got that zing.[/quote]

Tennis has been my life for years and I'll tell you, Connors was the biggest **** going in private. Yes he was pretty charasmatic on court and loved getting the crowd going, but in his day he was often described as an arse off court. He's mellowed now and so has McEnroe, but he was probably one of the biggest twats in the game at his peak. Ask Agassi. Conners used to treat him like crap as a lad. Becker is another one who behind closed doors was considered a bit of a moron. Agassi described him as a farmer boy who thought he was much cleverer than he really was.

mcj78

spen666 wrote:

mcj78 wrote:

.
....


Jesus, you still don't accept it was a joke - despite the interviewer, Murray & Henman (all of these people were involved in the conversation when he utterred this treasonous remark) regarding it as a joke - incidentally I haven't heard one person take offence at the question he was asked, which was a dig at Scotland not qualifying for the competition, why? Because it was a joke, that's why. If you really are so hyper-sensitive i'd hate to think of the emotional anguish you must be experiencing over events that actually matter in th world today, war, mass genocide, murder, rape etc. etc. I'm surprised you can find the time to moan about a Scottish tennis player not supporting the England football team with all that lot going on.

Oh, and if it's on facebook it certainly must be a just cause eh? like all those other just causes like those advocating running over cyclists for fun... In fact - why not spend more time on anti-Murray facebook sites than on here? At least there you'll be amongst like-minded individuals united by a common hatred of some Scottish tennis player who doesn't cheer on En-ger-lund.

I have no hatred of A ndy Murray at all.

All I have done is said the same think as Murray did

He supports England's opponents. I support Murray's opponents

What's the difference

you leave to brown nose him and condemn me

Strange that apparently its ok for Murray to say it, but not ok for me

:roll: Ok, i'll try & make it clear - I couldn't give a shit whether or not you like Murray or support his opponents, that's entirely your perogative, for whatever reasons - whether it's because he dares poke fun at the mighty English football team or for simply being Scottish & half decent at tennis, I don't know & don't care. Really.

The difference was, concentrate now - you took great offence that Murray apparently wasn't supporting England (even though it was a joke, remember?), and - wait for it... no-one cares if you support Murray or not.

So, on reflection - if no-one cares that you don't support Murray, do you still feel justified at your mock offence at him not supporting England?

Apparent "brown nosing" over.