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Who owns the telemetry data?

twotyredtwotyred Posts: 822
edited January 2010 in Pro race
Long time lurker first time poster here.

I'm wondering who owns the HRM, and power data that the teams capture during training and racing.

Reason for asking is that I reckon Wiggins might do well in the TdF this year because last year he was able to stay with the big boys in the mountains but it was obvious from the interviews he gave that as this was the first time he'd been in such a position he didn't know how is body would respond or how much he could really push it. With the benefit of that experience this might give him the confidence to attack a bit more this year. The data from those mountain stages would be very useful to him and Team Sky in preparation for this year. Do you think he has any ownership of it or if not could he have taken a cheeky copy?

Posts

  • TusherTusher Posts: 2,762
    edited January 2010
    Welcome, twotyred. ( Superb name, BTW. )

    What a fascinating question. I have no idea, but I would guess that Garmin would morally hold the data, as it was due to them that he was riding in the first place, and they were providing the mechanics to obtain the data.

    But I could be wrong.

    Edit- by mechanics I mean the mechanical devices, not the human type. Although Garmin would also provide the techies to download the data.
  • teagarteagar Posts: 2,100
    I'm pretty sure Garmin own the data.

    Formula one drivers can't carry telemetry data over to other teams.

    I'd imagine it's the same for cyclists.

    The difference would be that Wiggins could probably remember the figures - in which case he'd be able to recite them to sky.

    I'd imagine the sky lot, having worked with Bradley before, probably have some reasonable data on him anyway.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,871
    If you or I where producing the data then we would own the copyright to the data as we would be the 'author'.

    However, Wiggins is an employee of Sky and producing the data is seen as something he does 'in the course of his employment' and therefore his employer (Sky) owns the copyright (unless his contract states otherwise).

    See section 11(2) Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988.

    Wiggins might be entitled to legally take a 'cheeky copy' from his Garmin days under the premise of 'Research and Private study'' (section 29), but I wouldn't be 100% that it would stand up in court. Formula 1 (as mentioned above) will be covered by confidentiality clauses in their contracts - I doubt cycling has that.

    (And yes, I do work in Intellectual Property - Patents rather than Copyright, but the same principles apply)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • keef_zipkeef_zip Posts: 295
    RichN95 wrote:
    If you or I where producing the data then we would own the copyright to the data as we would be the 'author'.

    However, Wiggins is an employee of Sky and producing the data is seen as something he does 'in the course of his employment' and therefore his employer (Sky) owns the copyright (unless his contract states otherwise).

    See section 11(2) Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988.

    Wiggins might be entitled to legally take a 'cheeky copy' from his Garmin days under the premise of 'Research and Private study'' (section 29), but I wouldn't be 100% that it would stand up in court. Formula 1 (as mentioned above) will be covered by confidentiality clauses in their contracts - I doubt cycling has that.

    (And yes, I do work in Intellectual Property - Patents rather than Copyright, but the same principles apply)

    A rather thorough post there - from a man obviously in the know. UK IPO, I presume, given that you're in Cardiff?
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Wiggins would have been sharing the data with many. He used the Garmin coaches like Lim and Adrie van Diemen but he was also working with British Cycling staff as well. I'm not sure he would have signed a confidentiality agreement with anyone on this.

    Besides, if it's not on his laptop already, Wiggins should the data by heart. Not every pedal stroke but how many watts he was producing for the major climbs.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,871
    keef_zip wrote:

    A rather thorough post there - from a man obviously in the know. UK IPO, I presume, given that you're in Cardiff?

    Yes, unfortunately. Although we're just the plain old IPO now. It was decided UK IPO got us confused with UKIP.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dougzzdougzz Posts: 1,833
    I bet Mr Wiggins had a copy of the data himself whilst at Wigan, now doubt this found it's way to Man U when he switched.
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Interesting question ! I'm not entirely convinced that the info is of massive use to him this year though - things change. I'm sure he does set tests for british cycling or himself so he can monitor his improvements ?
  • twotyredtwotyred Posts: 822
    I kind of thought it would be the property of the team however knowing how useful it could be for the rider I wonder if they have a clause in the contract allowing them personal use of the data.

    As other posters have said he's probably committed his performance ont he key stages to memory. Surely the data it would be useful to set a target for this years training knowing he'll have to improve to make the podium.
  • sergensergen Posts: 39
    I think I'm right in saying that Wiggins only used a power meter in the Time Trial Events at last year's tour. He did not have a powertap wheel on his road bike during last year's Tour stages (most probably for reasons to do with saving weight). It's the power data from the Tour climbs that would be the most important and interesting to have but it was never recorded.
  • emaddenemadden Posts: 2,431
    RichN95 wrote:
    If you or I where producing the data then we would own the copyright to the data as we would be the 'author'.

    However, Wiggins is an employee of Sky and producing the data is seen as something he does 'in the course of his employment' and therefore his employer (Sky) owns the copyright (unless his contract states otherwise).

    See section 11(2) Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988.

    Wiggins might be entitled to legally take a 'cheeky copy' from his Garmin days under the premise of 'Research and Private study'' (section 29), but I wouldn't be 100% that it would stand up in court. Formula 1 (as mentioned above) will be covered by confidentiality clauses in their contracts - I doubt cycling has that.

    (And yes, I do work in Intellectual Property - Patents rather than Copyright, but the same principles apply)

    Emmm... not strictly correct... Wiggins would not be an "author" in this scenario (if we are to use the argument that the Garmin data amounts to copyright). Wiggins did not create an expression or other "written" record of his body's output - that was done by the software in his equipment. The equipment capturing the output of WIggins would have been Garmin team property and hence the output of that equipment would be owned by the team. That output, in the form of digital expression, would be copyright protected... but automatically the property of Garmin. The only rights that Wiggins may be able to claim are "moral rights", but this would be a very unusual claim - one that has never been before the courts.

    And yes, I am an IP lawyer by training.
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