Are we heading towards a third world Britain ?

nicensleazy
nicensleazy Posts: 2,310
edited January 2010 in The bottom bracket
I think we are! Over the past few months etc, I have noticed the roads are not being repaired and resemble former east German roads before reunification. Street lights not being maintained and a sharp increase in cash point ram raiding. Whilst these are only a few points I have noted, they are extremely noticable. Sadly, perhaps we need to think about the situation at home before dishing out millions in overseas aid. I'm sorry to say that in a way, but I guess we need to get our own house in order!
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Comments

  • northernneil
    northernneil Posts: 1,549
    I think if you asked that in the early 1930's...50's and late 70's you would have got the same impression
  • singlespeedexplosif
    singlespeedexplosif Posts: 1,564
    you are Cressers and I claim my £5.
  • TheStone
    TheStone Posts: 2,291
    The decline in the roads has been over the last few years. Bad weather has made it worse.

    This country is in a lot of trouble. We have the debt of a first world country (actually the
    highest in the world - bar Japan) and our public spending is way beyond what we can
    afford.

    Things are about to change and it won't be nice.

    Third world? Doubt it, but the good times of the last decade or two were built on debt
    (public and private) that now needs to be paid back or defaulted. Either way it's very bad.
    exercise.png
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Maybe not 3rd world but heading downwards.

    The government is effectively bankrupt and doing the equivalent of using credit cards to pay off the existing bills while not telling family members - us.
    Which is exactly how people/businesses got in the current financial doo-dah in the first place.
    The fact that they started to get us in this mess while the going was good is REALLY worrying :evil:

    And no, changing parties won't make much difference, unfortunately.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • pottssteve
    pottssteve Posts: 4,069
    Third World is an outmoded term. Nowadays they are called LEDCs - Less Economically Developed Countries. So yes, I guess the UK qualifies!
    Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    Unfortunately there is a general flow of world business, jobs and capital away from Europe and the west towards the east, China and Asia as a whole. Less business means lower taxable income and less money available to the public sector
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • TheStone
    TheStone Posts: 2,291
    daviesee wrote:
    Maybe not 3rd world but heading downwards.

    The government is effectively bankrupt and doing the equivalent of using credit cards to pay off the existing bills while not telling family members - us.
    Which is exactly how people/businesses got in the current financial doo-dah in the first place.
    The fact that they started to get us in this mess while the going was good is REALLY worrying :evil:

    And no, changing parties won't make much difference, unfortunately.

    It's actually even worse. Instead of going to the market to fund the extra debt, they're
    just printing the money. If they had to go the market they'd be paying higher interest, but
    printing money will cause more problems in the long term.

    History will judge the blair/brown govt as the worst in modern times.

    .... but you're right, none of the others have any answers now. They might be more
    responsible though, rather than continuing the madness.
    exercise.png
  • nicensleazy
    nicensleazy Posts: 2,310
    I looked into a crystal ball and saw the future........it doesn't look good!!!
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    TheStone wrote:
    daviesee wrote:
    Maybe not 3rd world but heading downwards.

    The government is effectively bankrupt and doing the equivalent of using credit cards to pay off the existing bills while not telling family members - us.
    Which is exactly how people/businesses got in the current financial doo-dah in the first place.
    The fact that they started to get us in this mess while the going was good is REALLY worrying :evil:

    And no, changing parties won't make much difference, unfortunately.

    It's actually even worse. Instead of going to the market to fund the extra debt, they're
    just printing the money. If they had to go the market they'd be paying higher interest, but
    printing money will cause more problems in the long term.

    History will judge the blair/brown govt as the worst in modern times.

    .... but you're right, none of the others have any answers now. They might be more
    responsible though, rather than continuing the madness.

    The Blair/Labour government has generally pursued short termist economic policy such as borrowing heavily, selling off gold and now, printing more money. As you say, it'll be left to subsequent governments to sort out the mess, just as the conservatives had to do in the 80s after the near collapse of the UK economy in the late 70s.
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • fast as fupp
    fast as fupp Posts: 2,277
    yet we can still find the money to fight ridiculous wars in far off lands at the behest of our american overlords and also find money for a nuclear 'deterrent'*

    *against who exactly?

    oh and the richest members of our 'society' keep getting richer!

    odd that
    'dont forget lads, one evertonian is worth twenty kopites'
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    OK, the country has got problems but third world is taking it a bit far. In third world countries it can be a struggle to survive from day to day, little kids are out working in dangerous job, scrounging on disease ridden tips, carrying essential water supplies miles. Education and health care are luxuries that many can't afford and the state of roads is irrelevant to them as even the thought of owning a vehicle is beyond them.

    In this country we hear people going on about poverty and yet the areas that come out worst in surveys of the 'poorest' area will generally have a car outside most houses and a satellite dish or at the very least a TV aerial on pretty much every house. Cigarettes, alcohol and fast food are considered by many as essentials. We have an NHS service that while not perfect will provide essential care and schooling is not only available but compulsory for children under 16. So, do a few potholes in the road and the fact that we maybe can't afford a foreign holiday this year really make us a third world country? Some people have a serious lack of perspective! :?
  • nicensleazy
    nicensleazy Posts: 2,310
    fast as fupp wrote:
    yet we can still find the money to fight ridiculous wars in far off lands at the behest of our american overlords and also find money for a nuclear 'deterrent'*

    *against who exactly?

    oh and the richest members of our 'society' keep getting richer!

    odd that


    Good point Sir!!
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    Pfft.

    S'what years of demanding lower taxes does - leads to chronic under-investment in public infrastructure and services.

    The UK public can't have it both ways.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • El Gordo
    El Gordo Posts: 394
    Pross wrote:
    OK, the country has got problems but third world is taking it a bit far. In third world countries it can be a struggle to survive from day to day, little kids are out working in dangerous job, scrounging on disease ridden tips, carrying essential water supplies miles. Education and health care are luxuries that many can't afford and the state of roads is irrelevant to them as even the thought of owning a vehicle is beyond them.

    In this country we hear people going on about poverty and yet the areas that come out worst in surveys of the 'poorest' area will generally have a car outside most houses and a satellite dish or at the very least a TV aerial on pretty much every house. Cigarettes, alcohol and fast food are considered by many as essentials. We have an NHS service that while not perfect will provide essential care and schooling is not only available but compulsory for children under 16. So, do a few potholes in the road and the fact that we maybe can't afford a foreign holiday this year really make us a third world country? Some people have a serious lack of perspective! :?

    Well said that man. Some people in this country don't realise how good they've got it. They sit at a computer in a warm, dry, spacious house with food in the fridge and have the audacity to compare their situation to a third world country. I suggest you spend your few remaining pennies on a flight to Africa and look around a bit.

    Sure, things in this country could be run much better but it's really still a pretty comfortable life.
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    S'what years of demanding lower taxes does - leads to chronic under-investment in public infrastructure and services.

    Or more like government p*ssing it away on another jolly seminar, workshop, 10 page booklet on how to be a dad, and other assorted sh*t. Oh and them 2 wars, plus a few banks that needed to be bailed out. It isn't tax take thats the problem.

    However, we certainly aren't 3rd world, but if you want an example of how to f**k a rich country up big time then take a look at Argentina.
  • solsurf
    solsurf Posts: 489
    I think you seriously need to visit a 3rd world country, after visiting parts of Asia and Africa I consider myself very fortunate that I was born in this country, with free education, health care and on the whole a safe environment. I would love to have more but I don't need it.
    http://www.pogu.co.uk
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    El Gordo wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    OK, the country has got problems but third world is taking it a bit far. In third world countries it can be a struggle to survive from day to day, little kids are out working in dangerous job, scrounging on disease ridden tips, carrying essential water supplies miles. Education and health care are luxuries that many can't afford and the state of roads is irrelevant to them as even the thought of owning a vehicle is beyond them.

    In this country we hear people going on about poverty and yet the areas that come out worst in surveys of the 'poorest' area will generally have a car outside most houses and a satellite dish or at the very least a TV aerial on pretty much every house. Cigarettes, alcohol and fast food are considered by many as essentials. We have an NHS service that while not perfect will provide essential care and schooling is not only available but compulsory for children under 16. So, do a few potholes in the road and the fact that we maybe can't afford a foreign holiday this year really make us a third world country? Some people have a serious lack of perspective! :?

    Well said that man. Some people in this country don't realise how good they've got it. They sit at a computer in a warm, dry, spacious house with food in the fridge and have the audacity to compare their situation to a third world country. I suggest you spend your few remaining pennies on a flight to Africa and look around a bit.

    Sure, things in this country could be run much better but it's really still a pretty comfortable life.

    I read the thread earlier but hadn't been able to comment until now and have exactly the same sentiments. Things can be improved sure but the thread title is one of the more ridiculous things I've read for a bit. If its so bad why do people hand over their meagre life savings so they can spend days at sea in effectively a floating coffin in the hope of reaching Europe and eventually Britain? If the boats were headed the other way you might have a valid point.

    Regarding the UK debt problem one thing that sticks in mind was what I was told during a lecture for the business module of my electronics HND, it was around 1995 and the lecturer said 'A Labour government always wrecks the economy'. He stated this with absolute confidence, an indisputable fact. We were all around 18-19 and had only ever known Conservative rule and didn't really question it at the time but what do you know, he was bang on!
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    verylonglegs wrote:
    El Gordo wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    OK, the country has got problems but third world is taking it a bit far. In third world countries it can be a struggle to survive from day to day, little kids are out working in dangerous job, scrounging on disease ridden tips, carrying essential water supplies miles. Education and health care are luxuries that many can't afford and the state of roads is irrelevant to them as even the thought of owning a vehicle is beyond them.

    In this country we hear people going on about poverty and yet the areas that come out worst in surveys of the 'poorest' area will generally have a car outside most houses and a satellite dish or at the very least a TV aerial on pretty much every house. Cigarettes, alcohol and fast food are considered by many as essentials. We have an NHS service that while not perfect will provide essential care and schooling is not only available but compulsory for children under 16. So, do a few potholes in the road and the fact that we maybe can't afford a foreign holiday this year really make us a third world country? Some people have a serious lack of perspective! :?

    Well said that man. Some people in this country don't realise how good they've got it. They sit at a computer in a warm, dry, spacious house with food in the fridge and have the audacity to compare their situation to a third world country. I suggest you spend your few remaining pennies on a flight to Africa and look around a bit.

    Sure, things in this country could be run much better but it's really still a pretty comfortable life.

    I read the thread earlier but hadn't been able to comment until now and have exactly the same sentiments. Things can be improved sure but the thread title is one of the more ridiculous things I've read for a bit. If its so bad why do people hand over their meagre life savings so they can spend days at sea in effectively a floating coffin in the hope of reaching Europe and eventually Britain? If the boats were headed the other way you might have a valid point.

    Regarding the UK debt problem one thing that sticks in mind was what I was told during a lecture for the business module of my electronics HND, it was around 1995 and the lecturer said 'A Labour government always wrecks the economy'. He stated this with absolute confidence, an indisputable fact. We were all around 18-19 and had only ever known Conservative rule and didn't really question it at the time but what do you know, he was bang on!

    Yeah.. The fact the rest of Western economies are also buggered is pure coincidence. :roll:

    Edit: Hadn't the UK just come out of a self inflicted recession, caused by the Tories' obsession with the value of currency in '95? Black Wednesday in 1992 and all that.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    itl make no difference labour or conservative. theyre all career politicians, its just cheap shot after another to try and get elected. its not third world here but were slipping in that direction. we'll keep pouring money we dont have into europe and various appeals. what about the gm grain that cost a fortune to produce to give much greater crop to end the famine and they just made loafs of bread out of it instead of planting. they need to develop some ingenuity not live of disaster funds.
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    teagar wrote:
    verylonglegs wrote:
    El Gordo wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    OK, the country has got problems but third world is taking it a bit far. In third world countries it can be a struggle to survive from day to day, little kids are out working in dangerous job, scrounging on disease ridden tips, carrying essential water supplies miles. Education and health care are luxuries that many can't afford and the state of roads is irrelevant to them as even the thought of owning a vehicle is beyond them.

    In this country we hear people going on about poverty and yet the areas that come out worst in surveys of the 'poorest' area will generally have a car outside most houses and a satellite dish or at the very least a TV aerial on pretty much every house. Cigarettes, alcohol and fast food are considered by many as essentials. We have an NHS service that while not perfect will provide essential care and schooling is not only available but compulsory for children under 16. So, do a few potholes in the road and the fact that we maybe can't afford a foreign holiday this year really make us a third world country? Some people have a serious lack of perspective! :?

    Well said that man. Some people in this country don't realise how good they've got it. They sit at a computer in a warm, dry, spacious house with food in the fridge and have the audacity to compare their situation to a third world country. I suggest you spend your few remaining pennies on a flight to Africa and look around a bit.

    Sure, things in this country could be run much better but it's really still a pretty comfortable life.

    I read the thread earlier but hadn't been able to comment until now and have exactly the same sentiments. Things can be improved sure but the thread title is one of the more ridiculous things I've read for a bit. If its so bad why do people hand over their meagre life savings so they can spend days at sea in effectively a floating coffin in the hope of reaching Europe and eventually Britain? If the boats were headed the other way you might have a valid point.

    Regarding the UK debt problem one thing that sticks in mind was what I was told during a lecture for the business module of my electronics HND, it was around 1995 and the lecturer said 'A Labour government always wrecks the economy'. He stated this with absolute confidence, an indisputable fact. We were all around 18-19 and had only ever known Conservative rule and didn't really question it at the time but what do you know, he was bang on!

    Yeah.. The fact the rest of Western economies are also buggered is pure coincidence. :roll:

    Edit: Hadn't the UK just come out of a self inflicted recession, caused by the Tories' obsession with the value of currency in '95? Black Wednesday in 1992 and all that.

    Oh yes, the conservatives were far from perfect themselves but compared to the situation we find ourselves in now they are being made to look pretty good. As you point out we came out of recession in '95 for Labour then to be elected to power and promptly spend lots of money for seemingly minimal, if any, improvement. Brown really didn't help himself by proclaiming boom and bust had disappeared all thanks to him either, the foolishness of such a statement from someone in his position beggars belief.

    Your statement regarding western economies is far too general for me to bother with.
  • nasahapley
    nasahapley Posts: 717
    nicensleazy wrote:
    I think we are! Over the past few months etc, I have noticed the roads are not being repaired and resemble former east German roads before reunification. Street lights not being maintained and a sharp increase in cash point ram raiding. Whilst these are only a few points I have noted, they are extremely noticable. Sadly, perhaps we need to think about the situation at home before dishing out millions in overseas aid. I'm sorry to say that in a way, but I guess we need to get our own house in order!

    Best! Comment! Ever!!! A few streetlights out and a few potholes (after weeks of sub-zero temperatures...), well it's just like Mogadishu isn't it? Mind you, I did notice that the council haven't painted one of the zebra crossings in town for a few years - you can hardly see it now - next thing you know there'll be an illegal diamond mine where Bettys used to be, and I'll have to walk an hour to fetch a bucket of malarial water every morning. FFS get some perspective man.
  • geordieindevon
    geordieindevon Posts: 127
    The question is not so much "are we going backwards" but more are the countries we once viewed as economically poor (LEDCs - old version "Third world") catching up and moving past us.

    Watch this video, particularly the first few minutes,and you will see what I mean. We need to address our education system...and pretty quickly!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeoKQbT8BKs
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    solsurf wrote:
    I consider myself very fortunate that I was born in this country, with free education, health care and on the whole a safe environment.

    of course it's not 'free' - what do you think we pay taxes for...??
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    verylonglegs wrote:
    teagar wrote:
    verylonglegs wrote:
    El Gordo wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    OK, the country has got problems but third world is taking it a bit far. In third world countries it can be a struggle to survive from day to day, little kids are out working in dangerous job, scrounging on disease ridden tips, carrying essential water supplies miles. Education and health care are luxuries that many can't afford and the state of roads is irrelevant to them as even the thought of owning a vehicle is beyond them.

    In this country we hear people going on about poverty and yet the areas that come out worst in surveys of the 'poorest' area will generally have a car outside most houses and a satellite dish or at the very least a TV aerial on pretty much every house. Cigarettes, alcohol and fast food are considered by many as essentials. We have an NHS service that while not perfect will provide essential care and schooling is not only available but compulsory for children under 16. So, do a few potholes in the road and the fact that we maybe can't afford a foreign holiday this year really make us a third world country? Some people have a serious lack of perspective! :?

    Well said that man. Some people in this country don't realise how good they've got it. They sit at a computer in a warm, dry, spacious house with food in the fridge and have the audacity to compare their situation to a third world country. I suggest you spend your few remaining pennies on a flight to Africa and look around a bit.

    Sure, things in this country could be run much better but it's really still a pretty comfortable life.

    I read the thread earlier but hadn't been able to comment until now and have exactly the same sentiments. Things can be improved sure but the thread title is one of the more ridiculous things I've read for a bit. If its so bad why do people hand over their meagre life savings so they can spend days at sea in effectively a floating coffin in the hope of reaching Europe and eventually Britain? If the boats were headed the other way you might have a valid point.

    Regarding the UK debt problem one thing that sticks in mind was what I was told during a lecture for the business module of my electronics HND, it was around 1995 and the lecturer said 'A Labour government always wrecks the economy'. He stated this with absolute confidence, an indisputable fact. We were all around 18-19 and had only ever known Conservative rule and didn't really question it at the time but what do you know, he was bang on!

    Yeah.. The fact the rest of Western economies are also buggered is pure coincidence. :roll:

    Edit: Hadn't the UK just come out of a self inflicted recession, caused by the Tories' obsession with the value of currency in '95? Black Wednesday in 1992 and all that.

    Oh yes, the conservatives were far from perfect themselves but compared to the situation we find ourselves in now they are being made to look pretty good. As you point out we came out of recession in '95 for Labour then to be elected to power and promptly spend lots of money for seemingly minimal, if any, improvement. Brown really didn't help himself by proclaiming boom and bust had disappeared all thanks to him either, the foolishness of such a statement from someone in his position beggars belief.

    Your statement regarding western economies is far too general for me to bother with.

    I was referencing the 'global' recession.

    It's all anyone's talking about.

    I know no-one's refering to it as the UK recession.

    However important you think UK finance is, the global recession was triggered by a collapse in the US housing market. The tinder was laid down by financers who mistook securities, amongst other things, as things that reduced financial risk. That was a mistake which was made internationally.

    That the UK is part of a global rcession has little to do with the labour gov't, or indeed any gov't.

    Every developed country, save Japan, made the same mistake.

    You can slate Brown for proclaiming an end to boom and bust, which was foolish, but to blame the global recession on the labour party?

    Pfft.

    The '92 recession is more telling, since it was only the UK that suffered.

    Cameron's showing a similar level of economic ineptness, by suggesting people can save their way out of a recession. It's an easy political sell, but it makes extremely little economic sense. The labour party, has, sadly followed suite.

    The UK gov't needs changing, but the Conservatives certainly aren't the ones to make those changes.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • nolf
    nolf Posts: 1,287
    I won't quote teagear as that'll make the page huuuge but...

    A lot of that is pretty accurate, while there is an argument to be made that the regulatory systems were (and remain) insufficient and inneffective, it's not entirely labours fault the market collapsed. We do live in a free market economy after all.

    Some of the bollox people have spouted here is ridiculous, the UK may in the long term be headed towards a less prominent role in the world economy, but thats largely due to having a fairly small country with not many people in it, rather than asians stealing our jobs. Also, less prominent finacial markets?! Are you kidding? While they may move elsewhere the financial markets have been and remain integral to any economy of the last 200 years...

    I do think the comments about inneffective govt/ spending are true though. Where has it gone? The governmet sufers from a debilitating lack of decent management, the public sector is grossly overpaid compared to the private, and the business cycle spending model that Gordon Brown triumphed has proved to be rubbish.

    However the point about printing money is wrong, quantitative easing is not printing money. While there are some similarities, it's a lot subtler and more complicated.
    The Bank of England uses cash to purchase govt. bonds from private investors, reducing the bond yield and encouraging investment in other finacial instruments, leading to a general reduction in yield on investments, this drives loan prices down to inividuals and businesses, and so indirectly encourages the creation of cheaper debt, while also driving up some liquid asset prices giving an extra bit of cash to those individuals with investments.

    The distinction between the 2 is that quantitiave easing is only short term, as when the market recovers you sell the purchased bonds back and delete the money you get for them, whereas printing money is blunt and difficult to reverse.

    Free up markets and trade, facilitate investment in LECD's forwarding the ageda of enlightened self interest!
    "I hold it true, what'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost;
    Than never to have loved at all."

    Alfred Tennyson
  • Cressers
    Cressers Posts: 1,329
    Third world britain? we've been there a long time. When countries like South Korea have better broadband coverage, higher wages, and get acess to hi-tech goods sooner than we in the UK it should give a reason to stop and ponder what we have become...
  • afcbian
    afcbian Posts: 424
    Perspective..............perspective..................perspective :roll: :roll:

    We have clothes, education, warm homes, food, we live in an environment relatively free of fear, we have access to good health care......

    perspective..........perspective...........perspective :D:D:D
    I ride therefore I am
  • Cressers
    Cressers Posts: 1,329
    So does China. But I doubt if you'd want to live there...
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Next thing you'll hear is people saying we are living in a 'police state'. Oh, wait a minute I think I've already been told that by some tabloid newspaper! :lol:
  • Cressers
    Cressers Posts: 1,329
    Yes we are. And have you noticed the Favella mentality appearing on the streets?

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