Negative Opacity child Cyclists

Mike Healey

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/ ... 3A35%3A383

PCSO Chris Rolph said: “The purpose is to work with the school and pupils to reduce the risk of being injured by not being seen by other road users.

“We were getting reports from worried members of the public not being able to see youngsters due to the colour of clothing they were wearing and not having any bicycle lights."

No problem with them being stopped for not having lights, but how do worried members of the public see children who aren't wearing reflective clothing, etc.? Logically, they wouldn't know they were there, so wouldn't be able to complain about them.

Yet another case of blaiming the cyclist, rather than the idiot local drivers

downfader

Mike Healey wrote:

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/eveningnews24/norwich-news/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED18 Jan 2010 09:06:35:383

PCSO Chris Rolph said: “The purpose is to work with the school and pupils to reduce the risk of being injured by not being seen by other road users.

“We were getting reports from worried members of the public not being able to see youngsters due to the colour of clothing they were wearing and not having any bicycle lights."

No problem with them being stopped for not having lights, but how do worried members of the public see children who aren't wearing reflective clothing, etc.? Logically, they wouldn't know they were there, so wouldn't be able to complain about them.

Yet another case of blaiming the cyclist, rather than the idiot local drivers

This was mentioned in the CTC newsletter last week iirc. They're on potentially dodgy ground with the hiviz statement during day light hours. Now if they'd come out and tackled the issue of the kids who ride at night in black hoodies and strip all the reflectors/lights off their bikes then yeah, as you said I'd understand. :?

Cunobelin

Also on extremely dodgy grounds with advising a child not to ride the rest of their journey!

beverick

Mike Healey wrote:

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/eveningnews24/norwich-news/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED18 Jan 2010 09:06:35:383

PCSO Chris Rolph said: “The purpose is to work with the school and pupils to reduce the risk of being injured by not being seen by other road users.

“We were getting reports from worried members of the public not being able to see youngsters due to the colour of clothing they were wearing and not having any bicycle lights."

No problem with them being stopped for not having lights, but how do worried members of the public see children who aren't wearing reflective clothing, etc.? Logically, they wouldn't know they were there, so wouldn't be able to complain about them.

Yet another case of blaiming the cyclist, rather than the idiot local drivers

I can't see what's wrong with trying to get cyclists to be more conspicuous. Clearly there's a problem if PCSOs trying to make cyclists walk even if they are showing the necessary lights but I have no problem with them being stopped and advised to supplement this with reflective material and light coloured clothing.

I do have a problem with the sentence "The reflective gear has been funded by Stuart Attwood Builders." which suggests that the initiative is more likely linked to getting sponsorship for the school than the safety of the pupils and the fact that the legislation is quoted incorrectly. There is only a requirement to have lights fitted to a bike during the hours of darkness.

Bob

Mike Healey

Young cyclists will be ordered off the roads unless they wear reflective clothing as part of a new police crackdown. They have been told to brighten up on the roads or walk on the pavements after families in Hellesdon told police they were fed up with unsafe child cyclists. The scheme was launched at Hellesdon High School on Friday when pupils were issued with reflective snap raps to wear and stickers to put on their bikes. It will be policed by Hellesdon and Horsford Neighbourhood Policing Team.... Any youngsters seen cycling without reflective items on their bike or reflective clothing will be stopped and advised to walk the rest of the way. Parents or carers will be contacted to make them aware that their children were putting themselves in a dangerous situation on the road.

1. I seriously question the right of the police to "order" young cyclists off the road since there is, AFAIK, no law which gives them that authority
2. No evidence is put forward that the danger came from lack of visibility, rather than, perhaps, poor cycling habits
3. In 56 years on the roads, I've never failed to see a child cyclist. They are neither transparent, invisible nor do they bend light round them
4. The lack of HI-Viz or reflective clothing does not prove that they are putting themselves in a dangerous situation on the road
5. Bikeability training will have a far greater effect on their road safety than any amount of reflective gear

Mike Healey

I also quote from the Norfolk County Council website:

"Your local authority does not offer Bikeability yet, you may wish to contact them to find out what schemes they currently offer. The contact information for your local authority's road safety or cycle training is listed below:"

spen666

The article is lazy journmalism.

The police have never suggested they would order anyone off the road for not wearing hi viz kit.

The article states ( a quote you omitted to include

Any youngsters seen cycling without reflective items on their bike or reflective clothing will be stopped and advised to walk the rest of the way.

A huge difference between giving advice and what the headline to the newspaper story states

Mike Healey

spen666 wrote:

The article is lazy journmalism.

The police have never suggested they would order anyone off the road for not wearing hi viz kit.

The article states ( a quote you omitted to include

Any youngsters seen cycling without reflective items on their bike or reflective clothing will be stopped and advised to walk the rest of the way.

A huge difference between giving advice and what the headline to the newspaper story states

Thanks Spen - a reference to this contradiction was in my original argument but somehow got deleted

Mike Healey

Copy of email to the paper:
I've read a great deal on the subject of cycling road safety over the years, but this story is pretty high on the nonsense list for the following reasons:

The pupils are being given a cycle danger, not safety, message
The answer to "unsafe child cyclists" is to train them using the national Bikeability courses. Any child who rides unsafely will be just as unsafe no matter how visible they are, since hi-viz gear doesn't prevent them from riding off pavements without looking, changing direction without signalling or looking, or riding in an irregular manner.
I quote from the Norfolk County Council website: "Your local authority does not offer Bikeability yet, you may wish to contact them to find out what schemes they currently offer. The contact information for your local authority's road safety or cycle training is listed below:" The sheer stupidity of not providing it, while complaining about unsafe riding, should be self-evident.
If the children are riding safely, then, since I've yet to see a transparent or invisible child, they are perfectly visible, otherwise local people wouldn't know they were riding at all, let alone unsafely.
I would like to know by what legal authority the police will advise them to get off their bikes, if they are riding safely, in daylight. If they are riding in daylight, will they arrest them if they do not do so and if so, under what legislation?
Apart from lack of training, most of the danger to cyclists comes from poor driving and unsafe routes to school. What steps are the police and the local council doing to improve these conditions?
In short, the methods being implemented, while well-meaning, are not tackling the sources of the problem as listed above. The solutions are:
Put all local child cyclists through Bikeability 1 and 2 programmes as they do in York
Then encourage children to walk or ride to school where feasible, which will reduce the danger posed by large numbers of cars near the schools.
Implement 20mph speed limits round schools and look at road design to improve it from the viewpoint of child cyclists and pedestrians.
Where necessary, come down hard on errant drivers.
Yours sincerely

Mike Healey