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Lifting front wheel

forgotrafeforgotrafe Posts: 637
edited January 2010 in MTB general
I've swapped everything over from my hardtail to a full-susser frame - everything except the seatpost which was a different size so I now have a Race Face Deus XC.

On the old hardtail I didn't have any trouble lifting the front wheel, but am really struggling on the new frame. Holding one frame up against the other suggests they have very similar geometry so am confused.

Just wondering if there are adjustments I could make that'd make it easier. There's room to move the saddle back maybe 10mm and there's one 5mm spacer above the stem. Stem & bars are what were fitted to the original hardtail: Handlebars Bontrager Select, 25mm rise, 31.8mm Stem Bontrager Select, 7 degree, 31.8mm ( can't recall if stem is 90 or 100mm).

Would moving the saddle back and the stem up make much difference? Is it just a case of keep practicing till I get used to new frame?
My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 800
My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 1000
Riding your first Century (100 miles) – a guide for normal people.

Posts

  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    well one was a HT and the new one is a Fully. so yes it will be very different.

    you will need to learn a new technique.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • forgotrafeforgotrafe Posts: 637
    Thanks for the quick & concise reply nicklouse. I guess I have a lot to learn!
    My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 800
    My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 1000
    Riding your first Century (100 miles) – a guide for normal people.
  • welshkevwelshkev Posts: 9,690
    just lean back a bit more and pull up a little bit more no? :D
  • bomberesquebomberesque Posts: 1,701
    first time I got on my Stinky I couldn't believe how hard it was to pop the front wheel


    keep practicing. one thing is the rear end of any FS frame that's not locked out will immediately squat when you pop your weight back thus you're losing the first part of your effort into the bike. Also wheelbase will make a difference
    Everything in moderation ... except beer
    Beer in moderation ... is a waste of beer

    If riding an XC race bike is like touching the trail,
    then riding a rigid singlespeed is like licking it
    ... or being punched by it, depending on the day
  • forgotrafeforgotrafe Posts: 637
    welshkev - I understand the theory, just couldn't understand why it was so much harder on the FS

    bomberesque - thanks for that, most encouraging.

    On a related note, anyone able to say how adding/removing spacers from the headset affects the handling?
    My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 800
    My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 1000
    Riding your first Century (100 miles) – a guide for normal people.
  • RichMTBRichMTB Posts: 599
    Higher bars place more weight on the saddle relative to the bars as you are more upright.

    Best way to improve control over the front end would be to try a shorter stem, say 70mm
    Step in to my hut! - Stumpy Jumpy Pacey
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    forgotrafe

    i think i have a few sequence shots of how to, it may be more of a hop but it will give an idea.

    but a question

    are you tring to just get the front wheel up or clear something on the "trail"?

    just pulling up on the bars just compresses the rear. changing parts on the bike will not help.

    and i am censored at explaining how to ride a bike
    :oops:

    will look for these pics later.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • ceecee Posts: 4,553
    I do it by pushing down, then pulling up...

    i.e, push enough to compress the forks, then move the weight back a bit and let the forks rebound help to lift the front wheel.
    Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.

    H.G. Wells.
  • welshkevwelshkev Posts: 9,690
    cee wrote:
    I do it by pushing down, then pulling up...

    i.e, push enough to compress the forks, then move the weight back a bit and let the forks rebound help to lift the front wheel.
    ^ that makes sense :D

    thinking about it that's how i do it. sorry if i appeared rude earlier dude, wasn't meant to be :D
  • forgotrafeforgotrafe Posts: 637
    Thanks all - and don't worry, no offence was taken to anyone's comments.

    I mean lift front wheel to do a manual, and to use this to make transition through obstacles smoother. In particular to avoid rolling drop-offs.

    The discovery of how I found out I struggled on the FS will make you laugh... Please bear in mind that I've not had the FS for very long and also not made it out much = not ridden FS much at all.

    So... It's Boxing Day, I'm at my brother's (not local to me) and we're off for a ride. He introduces me to a nasty obstacle - a 6-9" deep river crossing with a a very short run-up, a 50cm drop-off into the river, maybe 9' wide and a shallower bank the other side. He lifted his front wheel effortlessly (rides a Whyte E5 works FS), landed both wheels into the river at the same time and then bounced up the other bank.

    I failed to lift front wheel, rolled off bank, front suspension compressed and I went over the bars into the river (which was obviously bloody freezing).

    I rate this as a very difficult obstacle and my brother has done it many times. However, I'm embarrassed at how inept I was. Am sure I wasn't this inept on the old bike.
    My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 800
    My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 1000
    Riding your first Century (100 miles) – a guide for normal people.
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    yep know the situation.

    so more of a pre jump?

    car park time and jumping over white lines.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Steve_FSteve_F Posts: 682
    Try switching to a bike with an 8 inch fork and 10 inches at the back, I struggle to get the front wheel to lift at all and end up nearly coming off the back of my other bike when I swap back over!!
    Current steed is a '07 Carrera Banshee X
    + cheap road/commuting bike
  • captainflycaptainfly Posts: 1,001
    It is harder to lift the front wheel on an FS because the intial force you use to pump the rear end (push out the pedals) is being absorbed by the rear suspension, so you have to use more snatch on the handlebars so either more muscle or a faster pull back. It is a technique thing. I can get my wheel up but have trouble staying in a straight line.
    -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
    Mongoose Teocali
    Giant STP0

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  • forgotrafeforgotrafe Posts: 637
    Thanks all, you've been helpful as I now know that a FS differs so it's just a case of me learning about the new bike. Will try and find time to go get some practice in over the weekend,. but I'm not telling you where ;)
    My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 800
    My guide to navigating using the Garmin Edge 1000
    Riding your first Century (100 miles) – a guide for normal people.
  • ceecee Posts: 4,553
    forgotrafe wrote:
    I mean lift front wheel to do a manual, and to use this to make transition through obstacles smoother. In particular to avoid rolling drop-offs.

    I still push, then pull in this instance.

    or to just plop off the wee drop...stay strong and stop the front from dropping...so no real pull back.
    Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.

    H.G. Wells.
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