Bar reach and width - thoughts please...

pedropete

Hello all. To get the intro out of the way, I'm a long time MTB rider who's recently come back to road riding for winter after-work sessions to keep the pounds off while stuck at a desk again. I picked up a lovely, tricked out 2006 Allez from another forum member which I was gonna sell again but rode a few times then couldn't bear to part with.

Though I'm confident the frame size is right for me (56cm), I'm not so sure about the stem and bar combo. This bike (see pic) has a 110mm stem and a 44cm ergo bar, and while I know this stem length is common on a 56cm frame I'm not so sure about the bars. The 44cm width feels fine to me - although I'm pretty broad shouldered and could probably live with a 46 - but I can't help feeling the reach is a little on the long side.

When riding on the hoods I feel uncomfortably forward on the bike; to the point where I'm probably spending more time on the outer bends and away from the brakes than is safe. I also get a of lot of flex in the bars and stem and though this will be partly down to my build (6ft and stocky) I quite fancy an oversize setup to stiffen things up a little. Reach is also key, as the pic shows that next to a 110mm stem, distance from bar tops to the hoods is easily 130-140mm.

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are about my best options?

- Wider bar: 46cm too wide?

- Bar with shorter reach: how short a reach can you get? Would a compact bar be better suited?

- Shorter stem perhaps?

Your thoughts would be very welcome, and feel free to flame me for any mangling of terminology.

Cheers.

skyd0g

It would be helpful to see a pic of the whole bike if possible, in order to see the overall set-up you have (esp. relative to the saddle height).

A 110mm stem isn't particularly long and it is likely you'll natuarally feel more stretched-out on a road bike compared to an MTB, especially at first.

Have you considered lowering the bars at all?

ajb72

Agree with comments from skyd0g above, consider giving it a bit more time to get used to the change from the MTB position, as this a very common occurance.

We are all different in build, but my set up is nearly identcal to yours (56cms, 110mm stem, 44cm bars) and I guess this would be a common set up.

As for the bars, 46 cms would be considered quite wide unless you have really broad shoulders, so again perhaps try to give it a bit more time to adapt as it is bound to feel wierd compared to the MTB bars.

My only other comment from seeing the photo is that your stem has quite a lot of rise and there is room to lower the height by removing a spacer or two until you get a more comfortable position. Perhaps a stem with a more neutral angle would help?

on-yer-bike

ajb72 wrote:

Agree with comments from skyd0g above, consider giving it a bit more time to get used to the change from the MTB position, as this a very common occurance.

We are all different in build, but my set up is nearly identcal to yours (56cms, 110mm stem, 44cm bars) and I guess this would be a common set up.

As for the bars, 46 cms would be considered quite wide unless you have really broad shoulders, so again perhaps try to give it a bit more time to adapt as it is bound to feel wierd compared to the MTB bars.

My only other comment from seeing the photo is that your stem has quite a lot of rise and there is room to lower the height by removing a spacer or two until you get a more comfortable position. Perhaps a stem with a more neutral angle would help?

The stem has been flipped.

kfinlay

It's really a case of having a tinker with your setup - make small changes and give them a bit of time to see if it's better or not (although sometimes you know very quickly). Firstly make sure you saddle height/position is right and your foot position on the pedals are right before messing around with the handlebar/stem setup

Let's face it if Pros like Wiggins get their setup right by doing this then it's good enough for us

BTW if you do need a longer stem of 130mm then I've got a nice light ITM one available for £12 posted - pics at http://www.starperformance.co.uk/kf

Slow Downcp

Flip the stem the other way - it will drop the bars, and increase the reach.

pedropete

Thanks for all the replies folks, much appreciated. Answers (roughly in order) are:

- Yes, the stem was flipped in an attempt to ease myself back into a road riding position. But, if you think lowering the bars would have a positive effect I'm willing to try it.

- Saddle height, angle and position are spot on for me, with just the right leg extension and distance aft of the BB.

- Cleat position is also fine; can remember racing x-country with very early spuds (0 degree float anyone?) and these are a lot more forgiving, and easier to set up too!

- Pic of whole bike is below; apologies for the shocking image quality, was taken on an i(don't do photos)phone.

Having done a little more swotting up (and allowing for my desire to go to a 31.8 bar & stem), I quite fancy the FSA 'Omega' compact bar (44cm) and the OS-190 LX stem (110mm). While neither are especially lightweight (not that I'll notice with my 15stone on board) they're oversize and not too expensive if I don't get on with the bars. Whadya reckon? Worth a try? In effect, I'd only be changing the bar as the stem length and rise are identical.

Ta.



PS. Saddle looks much more 'nose-down' in the pic than it really is.

redddraggon

The reach on the bars is "a little long" because the shifters have been put too forward onto the bars. The bars need to rotated forward and the shifters moved higher.

John.T

Saddle looks much more 'nose-down' in the pic than it really is.

Best not to have any nose down at all. It tends to throw your weight forward. You should be sitting on the rear section of the saddle with no tendency to slide forward.
The bars do have a long drop and a fair reach. I have gone off that type of 'ergo' bar in favour of compact ones. I am using Bontrager VR bars and find I can use much more of the bar, including the drops. The brakes are also better to reach.

pedropete

Reddraggon: cheers, fair point. They're actually further back than they were when I got the bike. I just didn't want to introduce too acute an angle between bars and hoods. I'll give your suggestion a try while I'm hunting for a new combo and see how I get on.

John: again, fair comment, but I assure you it really does look far worse in the pic than the reality. Just been out to the garage to check I'm not losing my marbles and it's pretty much dead flat; weight is comfortably on my arse bones with no pressure on the old perineum. Think I'm pretty much sold on the compact bar idea too; for £25 its got to be worth a go.

Thanks again.

Dan_xz

Pete - would you keep us updated on how you get on? Especially the compact bar as I haven't tried that yet.

I'm in exactly the same situation as you from an almost identical setup. I also thought it was a case of getting used to it but had the front wheel slip on me twice on low/moderate speed corners. Feel like my weight is too much on the front wheel. According to the usual sizing formula I'm on the right sized frame.

So far I have:

Tried a shorter (100mm) stem. Made me sit a little more upright - I felt like I was working towards replicating my MTB position which I don't think is the right thing to do. Made the front a little sensitive/twitchy

Reversed the 110mm stem . Really sat me upright and felt I was sitting 'on' the bike instead of being part of it.

Put 110mm stem back to normal, rotated my bars and shifted the levers up (have to stretch my fingers to grab them from in the drops but much better braking from the hoods). Better but still feel too much weight on my arms.

Now I've just got a 120mm stem with a negative angle (drops the bars more). Seems contrary to my problem of too much weight on the arms, but maybe it'l change my hip position or something..I dunno..but I already tried what seemed like sense and it didn't work so now I'm trying the opposite!

pedropete

Dan - yes, happy to let you know how I get on.

Of course sods law says that by the time I've sorted it I'll have justified splashing the cash on a Van Nicholas frame. Have to start all over again then, won't I...

huuregeil

I agree with reddragon, the bars look too far rotated. This:

"I just didn't want to introduce too acute an angle between bars and hoods"

is not really an issue unless you have monster sized palms! Rotating them back will reduce the reach. You might also need a shorter stem and/or shorter reach bars (which do look very long reach/drop, it has to be said!). Remember, there's no such thing as a "right" stem for a given frame size, nor a "right" sized frame for a given height, only a right position, which is simply the relationship in space between bottom bracket, saddle, and hood position. A correctly fitting bike should accommodate that relationship.

Dan - sounds like your saddle wants to go back - too much weight on the arms is usually a symptom of not enough saddle setback. Either that or the saddle to bar drop is quite extreme.

alan_sherman

At a guess your sadle might be too high and too far forward - meaning you can't bend at the hip and are sitting with your lower spine too straight resulting in a vertical position rather than reaching forwad to the bars. I base this on the forward tilt of the saddle and how far forward the saddle is.

Re-check the saddle position so that it is not too high, try to get your weight on the sit bones (look up the specialized body geometry stuff for more explination), and knee over the pedal spindle when cranks horizontal.

Also I'd rotate the bars forward so the last part is only about 10 degrees from horizontal, and re-poistion the STIs a bit further up the bars. Once in the "standard" position you will be able to judge better which bits don't feel right.

pedropete

Yet more useful input from the forum, thanks again. While I'm happy with the seating position I'm certainly up for tweaking so I'll experiment a bit this weekend and see what transpires.

As for the bars, I think I'll go with the compact to start and then maybe try a different length stem if it doesn't work out. Like a few of you have said, 'change one thing at a time'. Will definitely be pitching the bars down and pulling shifters back this weekend though; I'm keen to see what effect it has on comfort while I choose the replacements. Think I'll lose some of the spacer stack too, I'm hoping it'll reduce flex a little more.

Ta much... Pete.

huuregeil

pedropete wrote:

Think I'll lose some of the spacer stack too, I'm hoping it'll reduce flex a little more.

Careful here. Given your stem is flipped and your saddle to bar drop looks reasonable, I'd be wary of bringing the bars down further. If you need spacers to get the position right, so be it, don't compromise your position for the sake of stiffness. (Next bike might need a longer headtube...).

And anyway, the main source of handlebar flex is the bars themselves, followed by the stem. Beef these two up first.

nmcgann

pedropete wrote:

.....
Having done a little more swotting up (and allowing for my desire to go to a 31.8 bar & stem), I quite fancy the FSA 'Omega' compact bar (44cm) and the OS-190 LX stem (110mm). While neither are especially lightweight (not that I'll notice with my 15stone on board) they're oversize and not too expensive if I don't get on with the bars. Whadya reckon? Worth a try? In effect, I'd only be changing the bar as the stem length and rise are identical.

The Omega Compacts are good bars, I have them on my winter bike. The shape means you can get a flat portion of the bars behind the hoods and keep the drops parallel to the ground. The shape of your current bars doesn't allow this, the drops are quite angled downward when the hoods position is flat.

The fact that they are oversize is pretty irrelevant to the performance of the bar, I can't feel any significant difference compared to any of the standard bars I've used. They are "good" oversize though - the 31.8mm section extends out a decent distance from the clamp area so it is possible to attach accessories properly. Some other O/S bars have a long taper section which means that the only place to stick accessories is on the stem.

pedropete

Right then; promised I'd let you know what I tweaked and how I got on, sooo....

- New stem: Easton EA50 6deg 110mm
- New bar: Easton EA50 44cm - I think a 75mm reach/130mm drop falls into the 'compact' category?
- Saddle moved aft by 10mm
- Nose of saddle lifted by approximately 4-5 degrees

The new bar/stem are an oversize setup, and while I was hoping for at least some increase in stiffness, I've been pleased by a significant improvement over the stock setup in this respect. There's now considerably less springiness when I'm hauling on the bars in a hard climb and I don't think the replacements have added any weight either. Was gonna order online but impatience got the better of me, so both were bought from my local Evans on a price match for £55.

In terms of the ergonomic improvement (which is of course subjective) I've totalled 87 miles in three nights worth of quick sessions and can say that I'm now far more comfortable on the hoods and much more confident on the drops. Hand, wrist, shoulder and back comfort are all vastly improved while on the hoods and I've considerably greater control over braking while there.

I'm also much more confident on the drops; partly due to body position and comfort, but again, this is also due to improved access to brakes and shifting while there.

Will post a pic of the new setup for those interested when I get a chance. I've no doubt that as I spend more time on the road I'll want to tweak more, but for now this a vast improvement over the original setup.

Thanks again to all for your opinions and advice. it's amazing how helpful a decent forum can be.

Cheers... Pete.

skyd0g

Glad that you've found the forum helpful pedropete.

I also changed the bars on my bike from ergo to compact & found a vast improvement myself. Good to hear you're getting some miles in too! Look forward to seeing a pic of your new set-up.

JohnnyAllez

FOR INFO... standard length of stem on the 56 frame is 100mm, not 110mm.

From the foto above, (I know you`ve changed the set-up now), but, I`d invert the stem so it`s level and not pointing up-hill (your back will get used to it pretty quickly) then bars running in-line with the stem angle (hard to describe but so they follow the line of the stem, not angled up or down), then the levers so the hoods follow that line line as well. I`ve got this set-up as described and I don`t have any aches or probs