OT: Help bought something second hand that has a fault

pastryboy

I bought some speakers off a chap on a forum. He dropped them off at my house on Saturday and we chatted for a bit and it was all very friendly. The speakers looked perfect, were plugged in to make sure they worked. Shook hands, money handed over and all was fine.

Having now listened to the speakers properly (and tested them Sunday/Monday) it's evident there's a problem with one of them; basically the sound is dull on one whereas the other is perfect. It's not a problem that would be picked up without having a proper listen or fiddling with the balance controls.

I've emailed him to say what the situation is and asked him to pop back round to demonstrate it. Hopefully he will reply and we can sort it out amicably. However, if he doesn't reply or says no what are my options?

Kieran_Burns

Seriously: None

Caveat Emptor applies here. Basically buyer beware. If there is a fault on a private sale, then you have no legal recourse. Also in this case, the seller was willing to have the speakers tested and you accepted them as suitable.

I'm sorry to say, if he is intransigent you can do nothing except learn a lesson.

Wallace1492

pastryboy wrote:

I bought some speakers off a chap on a forum. He dropped them off at my house on Saturday and we chatted for a bit and it was all very friendly. The speakers looked perfect, were plugged in to make sure they worked. Shook hands, money handed over and all was fine.

Having now listened to the speakers properly (and tested them Sunday/Monday) it's evident there's a problem with one of them; basically the sound is dull on one whereas the other is perfect. It's not a problem that would be picked up without having a proper listen or fiddling with the balance controls.

I've emailed him to say what the situation is and asked him to pop back round to demonstrate it. Hopefully he will reply and we can sort it out amicably. However, if he doesn't reply or says no what are my options?

Do you have a good quality "D" lock?

UndercoverElephant

I reckon the fact he came round and let you audition them means even the sale of goods act doesn't cover you. Chances are it's a pretty easy fix though, probably the crossover on the duff one.

skyd0g

Sounds like the cross-over / tweeter. A good chance that it could be fixed with a drop of solder in the right place.

Just to be certain, try swopping over the speaker outputs ie: L>R just to rule out a possible fault with the amp.

pastryboy

I've already done loads of testing to rule out anything else - it's definitely the speaker.

If there was a problem with the crossover would it not be more noticeable? All sounds are present and correct but they're just a bit dull compared to the other speaker. I know nothing of the internals of speakers and don't want to go messing around inside one.

UndercoverElephant

The crossover basically sends the high frequency sounds to the tweeter, and the low frequency sounds to the woofer. If you're missing the high frequencies, it's either the tweeter or the crossover. Usually the crossover.

The dome of the tweeter isn't dented, is it?

pastryboy

The tweeters look perfect as does the rest. The build quality is such that you wouldn't expect any of it to fail.

If it needs a new crossover is that likely to be something that has to come from the manufacturer?

I found a dealer (the only one) so I may call them on that point.

thanks

PBo

pastryboy wrote:

The tweeters look perfect as does the rest. The build quality is such that you wouldn't expect any of it to fail.

If it needs a new crossover is that likely to be something that has to come from the manufacturer?

I found a dealer (the only one) so I may call them on that point.

thanks

What brand of speaker? what sort of cost (retail price)? Are you describing a problem which is a difference between the 2 speakers, rather than no high frequency at all?

cheers

pastryboy

These:

http://www.vonschweikert.com/product_sh ... _sheet.pdf

In the region of £1k when originally imported.

The problem is indeed a difference between the two speakers, the high frequencies aren't absent they're just a lot duller from one speaker. It's definitely not down to cabling/positioning as I've ruled that out.

UndercoverElephant

They fancy!! I wouldn't be opening them up either. I'd get in touch with the manufacturer, they can probably point you towards a decent repairer.

PBo

are they bi-wireable? If they are, but you're single wiring, is the bridge connected right?

I saw that the warranty is ten years, so if seller is a good guy, perhaps he'd try to get them looked at for you under that.

pastryboy

Nope, not biwirable.

UndercoverElephant

How are you connecting your wire to the speaker? Are you using banana plugs or just clamping to the terminal? I'd try the former, if you're doing the latter, a bad connection could cause trouble.

pastryboy

I'm just using bare wire at the moment screwed into the terminals. I've really covered off every wiring option and it's all been moved about and dis/re-connected a stack of times to rule out anything obvious.

I'm going to have a look at the warranty situation as I know some of their speakers have ten years on them or (annoyingly it may be a five year one that's lapsed recently). I'll also dig out another amp to be doubly sure.

So is the consensus that it's a dodgy crossover - I really don't know much beyond the names of the component parts.

desweller

Crossovers are basically simple filter networks consisting of resistors, inductors and capacitors.

Because of the high vibration nature of a loudspeaker application, it's not unknown for the soldered joints to turn into 'dry' joints over time (a term used to describe a phenomenon where the solder does not 'wet' the surfaces of the components to be soldered).

This can usually be sorted out by melting the solder and remaking the joint.

Sometimes the capacitors also fail as they are limited in life by comparison to resistors and inductors.

Anyway, xovers are very simple and cheap things and easy to repair; the expense of modern loudspeakers is usually in the handmade driver assemblies and handmade cabinets, the electronics are ancient technology. Even drivers can be reconed at fairly inexpensive rates.

pastryboy

I assumed that if something failed on a speaker it would be pretty evident i.e. it would be distorted in some way or just not work. Would there not be a single connection from crossover to tweeter that would determine if it works or not?

wgwarburton

pastryboy wrote:

I assumed that if something failed on a speaker it would be pretty evident i.e. it would be distorted in some way or just not work. Would there not be a single connection from crossover to tweeter that would determine if it works or not?

The crossover itself could easily be faulty- dodgy connection or failed component. They are fairly chunky bits of electrical hardware, typically built from discrete components soldered together and located inside the cabinet.
Checking the components for obvious failures (burnt out parts etc) and ensuring the connections are good might avoid a costly visit to a professional repair centre.
If the speaker terminals are located on a screwed-on panel (they are often glued, to prevent vibration-related noise) then removing it and eyeballing the components might be worthwhile, chances are they are attached to the inside of the connection-panel.
If you're not confident of removing without causing damage to an expensive bit of kit, then a repair centre would be a good bet.

Cheers,
W.

Runoutofgears

I have had a tweeter go open circuit on a set of AR speakers some years ago, the effect was a loss of high frequencies and the dull sound you describe. The tweeter windings are very delicate and can incur damage. If you are confident about accessing the back of the speaker you can check the impeadance, (well actually you can check the DC resistance) of the tweeter coil at the terminals. The correct reading depends on the unit and should be printed on the magnet, an open circuit, non reading or very high reading may suggest open circuit, i.e. broken winding.

If not I suggest a visit to a competent repair shop.

pastryboy

Thanks for the help. It has a screw on rear panel though it has those awkward torx screws. I may take a peek inside to see if anything looks particularly amiss if I can find something to open them with.

If not I've seen an ad on the net for 'speaker repair' relatively locally and I'll check out the warranty situation though even if they were covered the packed weight is listed as a pretty hefty 37lbs.

Runoutofgears

The speakers quite often come out from the front fixing screws.

They look very good, it's a shame you're having probelms with them. best of luck.

pastryboy

I'll take a look at that too, I'm loathe to fiddle with anything but peeking inside shouldn't do any harm.

They do look good and even with the problem they do sound very good. It's a bit galling as my hi-fi purchase had been planned for well over a year and was paid for out of my bonus.

Wallace1492

pastryboy wrote:

I'll take a look at that too, I'm loathe to fiddle with anything but peeking inside shouldn't do any harm.

They do look good and even with the problem they do sound very good. It's a bit galling as my hi-fi purchase had been planned for well over a year and was paid for out of my bonus.

People are still getting Bonus's?

UndercoverElephant

Wallace1492 wrote:

People are still getting Bonus's?

Not all of us are bankers

pastryboy

Yes, we're very busy and the bonuses are necessary to boost an otherwise unspectacular salary (the bonus I refer to was £3.7k for a four month period so not exactly investment banker money). My company is funded by businesses and we don't make any profit.

_Brun_

Wallace1492 wrote:

People are still getting Bonus's?

That'll really upset the forum pedants.

alfablue

Bonus's

:shock:

Wallace1492

I am very happy that people are getting bonus's. Just dont think tax payer owned and bailed out banks should be paying any..... well not discretionary ones anyway.

pastryboy

I got home tonight and did a thorough round of testing, swapped every bit of kit and it was still happening!

I have no idea how but the guilty party seems to have been the speaker cable which ironically was being replaced anyway.

Much relieved that none of the second hand, no warranty gear I've bought isn't duff. :shock:

MonkeyMonster

So its not happening now with that speaker because using a different cable sorts the issue?

Good good. Case Closed.

dilemna

Did you email the chap you bought them from to apologise profusely that all is now ok and you've been a wally :oops: ? He is probably crapping himself at the thought of a dispute over them given that the sale seemed to go smoothly and that you were satisfied with them shaking his hand like a man of integrity . He even delivered them to your door. He sounds like a great guy, not like your average Ebayer.

pastryboy wrote:

These:

http://www.vonschweikert.com/product_sh ... _sheet.pdf

In the region of £1k when originally imported.

The problem is indeed a difference between the two speakers, the high frequencies aren't absent they're just a lot duller from one speaker. It's definitely not down to cabling/positioning as I've ruled that out.

Wow! More techical geek stuff there than has gone into the space shuttle.... I hope you can hear the difference above and beyond any speakers you can get from Curries, Comet, Richer Sounds or Sevenoaks HiFi.