Lance's TdU fee causing political rumbings in Oz

iainf72
iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited January 2010 in Pro race
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na ... 5820170928?

Before people accuse me of having a go at Lance, I will state I don't mind what he gets paid. Last year when he was pretending it was for charity I had a beef with it.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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Comments

  • thomasmc
    thomasmc Posts: 814
    He has promised a nice donation to earthquake victims in Haiti so its not all going into his foundation / charity / back pocket

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/01/ ... iti_102373
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Well, the government is involved and that should tell you something. Under the table dealings, questionable practices, a scandal or two. Sounds like a government's involved
    to me. Nothing new there. :wink::wink:
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    An odd reason given in the article to cover up the fee, you'd think it would be helpful to be transparent.

    If Armstrong collects a million Aussie dollars, that's about one million US so his donation to the Haiti relief fund amounts to about a day's riding. But I don't know if Armstrong collects the fee or whether it goes to his foundation, perhaps someone else knows?
  • thomasmc
    thomasmc Posts: 814
    Kléber wrote:
    An odd reason given in the article to cover up the fee, you'd think it would be helpful to be transparent.

    If Armstrong collects a million Aussie dollars, that's about one million US so his donation to the Haiti relief fund amounts to about a day's riding. But I don't know if Armstrong collects the fee or whether it goes to his foundation, perhaps someone else knows?

    Biking Bernie, please come to counter 7! :D
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    thomasmc wrote:
    He has promised a nice donation to earthquake victims in Haiti so its not all going into his foundation / charity / back pocket

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/01/ ... iti_102373

    But the $250k donation to Haiti is not coming out of his back pocket, either. The donation is being made on behalf of Livestrong...

    http://livestrongblog.org/2010/01/13/li ... f-efforts/

    Note the comments. Some people aren't pleased that money donated to a cancer charity is being used for earthquake relief.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Kléber wrote:
    If Armstrong collects a million Aussie dollars, that's about one million US so his donation to the Haiti relief fund amounts to about a day's riding. But I don't know if Armstrong collects the fee or whether it goes to his foundation, perhaps someone else knows?

    I think I read somewhere it's split between the 2 this year. But I'm not certain.

    As far as I know, the Foundation is making the donation for Haiti.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    Are people honestly complaining about money going to Haiti?

    Words fail me.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/201 ... ke-updates
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    teagar wrote:
    Are people honestly complaining about money going to Haiti?

    The same people also seem to think Livestrong has something do with cancer research. Shrug.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Slow1972
    Slow1972 Posts: 362
    I can't imagine people are objecting on the basis of it going to haiti, but on a practical level it does raise questions.

    There has been cases about this previously (in the UK) based on the fact that if a charity has clearly set out its charitable aims (in this case related to fighting cancer) and recieves donations from individuals and organisations on that basis, are they then entitled to spend that money on an altogether different objective or have they received payment from the donors "on trust" that the money is used in the manner that they said it would be (fighting cancer, not helping earthquake victims)?

    If the aims had been stated differently (and wider) it may be that donors would not have given the money to Lance's foundation but some other more cancer specific charity, that is the issue as I see it. I suppose a bit like choosing between donating to Oxfam (wide remit on all sorts of relief) and Cancer Research eh.

    btw, I don't have any problems with it, I think the problems in Haiti require immediate action, funding from a foundation which has a load of money it hasn't spent on its main objective doesnt seem to harm anyone in the short term.
  • lucybears
    lucybears Posts: 366
    teagar wrote:
    Are people honestly complaining about money going to Haiti?

    Words fail me.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/201 ... ke-updates

    No, they are complaining about money that they donated to a cancer charity is going to Haiti. . If those people had wanted their money to go to Haiti they would have donated to one of the many Haiti relief funds.
    interview.cyclingfever.com
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    lucybears wrote:
    teagar wrote:
    Are people honestly complaining about money going to Haiti?

    Words fail me.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/201 ... ke-updates

    No, they are complaining about money that they donated to a cancer charity is going to Haiti. . If those people had wanted their money to go to Haiti they would have donated to one of the many Haiti relief funds.

    I'm not entering this debate. Cuts far too close to the bone.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • lucybears
    lucybears Posts: 366
    iainf72 wrote:
    The same people also seem to think Livestrong has something do with cancer research..

    are you a mind reader ? or do you just assume that people seem to think Livestrong has something do with cancer research.
    interview.cyclingfever.com
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    lucybears wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    The same people also seem to think Livestrong has something do with cancer research..

    are you a mind reader ? or do you just assume that people seem to think Livestrong has something do with cancer research.

    No, I'm basing my comments on what I read on that Livestrong link Afx posted.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • TommyEss
    TommyEss Posts: 1,855
    Wow - lots of issues.

    Lance, love him or loathe him, is a very marketable cyclist, and on that basis alone it's not surprising he'd attract quite a handsome fee to appear at a race.

    I've no idea why that money needs to be in the public domain - is it public money being spent?!

    Haiti - a truly horrific humanitarian disaster the scale of which we've probably not seen since the Boxing Day Tsunami. Clearly warrants money to help - but I would agree with the sentiments on the basis that it is reasonable for a person who donates to Charity X to expect that money to be spent on the cause with which that charity has been set up. That said, you as a donor do entrust them to spend it "as they see fit" - which here you could argue they (LiveStrong) are doing by choosing to send money to help Haiti.

    Certainly not a black and white issue.

    As for the Cancer Research issue - I was not aware that LiveStrong had any active role in research cancer as a medical issue - I thought they were there more to support those affected by it.

    A charity such as Cancer Research UK for example, is a world leader in researching cancer as a disease, and new cancer treatments.

    Quite a different remit.

    Am I back on topic yet?!

    Who's looking forward to the TdU then?!
    Cannondale Synapse 105, Giant Defy 3, Giant Omnium, Giant Trance X2, EMC R1.0, Ridgeback Platinum, On One Il Pompino...
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    TommyEss wrote:

    I've no idea why that money needs to be in the public domain - is it public money being spent?!

    Yes
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • TommyEss
    TommyEss Posts: 1,855
    iainf72 wrote:
    TommyEss wrote:

    I've no idea why that money needs to be in the public domain - is it public money being spent?!

    Yes

    Ah - well then that's very different! (Sorry - the article wouldn't open for me, so I'm going to try and find it when I get home from work)

    Yes, clearly public spending should be transparent, whether it's going to a charity or an athlete.
    Cannondale Synapse 105, Giant Defy 3, Giant Omnium, Giant Trance X2, EMC R1.0, Ridgeback Platinum, On One Il Pompino...
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Funny how a Lance (well LAF) "pledge"......sorry "donation", hits the media headlines, but his "payoffs" are a closely guarded secret.

    Especially, as the second one is related to cycling, but the first isn't.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • pontarlier_pete
    pontarlier_pete Posts: 195
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Funny how a Lance (well LAF) "pledge"......sorry "donation", hits the media headlines, but his "payoffs" are a closely guarded secret.

    Especially, as the second one is related to cycling, but the first isn't.

    I'm guessing it'll be a lot more than his donation.

    Besides, doesn't taking public money from foreign governments conflict with his "global cancer awareness campaign"? Shouldn't he be saying "Oh no, I don't need an appearance fee, I'm rich enough already, ha ha. Put it towards fighting cancer in your country, that [$2m] will buy many new early-detection machines for your people. You know [Ron], every day people die of cancer and I'm here to raise awareness of cancer. People with cancer don't even know they have cancer, so I need to make them aware of it. Before me, nobody knew about cancer..." etc etc and so on.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    So the donation is being made by Livestrong.org the charity whilst the appearance fee is paid to Livestrong.com, a separate commercial enterprise from the charity.

    I think the Aussies have a reason to be concerned re the appearance fee as it is the regional government who organisies the TDU.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • PinkBianchi
    PinkBianchi Posts: 63
    I found it horrible that Lance got £20 000 for starting the crit in Oslo back in August, which was paid out by a Norwegian Cancer charity. I'm guessing he's getting loads more for TdU.

    And on the Haiti/Livestrong issue, I think HE should have paid out of his own pocket (it's not like he can't afford it), not use Livestrong's money, cos they are needed elsewhere. Although Haiti needs urgent help now, we can't forget all the other people in this world who needs our help. They don't dissapear cos of an earthquake..
  • pontarlier_pete
    pontarlier_pete Posts: 195
    PinkBianchi wrote:
    I found it horrible that Lance got £20 000 for starting the crit in Oslo back in August, which was paid out by a Norwegian Cancer charity. I'm guessing he's getting loads more for TdU.

    And on the Haiti/Livestrong issue, I think HE should have paid out of his own pocket (it's not like he can't afford it), not use Livestrong's money, cos they are needed elsewhere. Although Haiti needs urgent help now, we can't forget all the other people in this world who needs our help. They don't dissapear cos of an earthquake..

    Is Haiti getting any of the Livestrong cash though? It's being paid to "organisations with dealings in Haiti". I have dealings with a youth charity, doesn't mean my employer is making charitable donations to it when I get my salary.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Some of the Livestrong cash is going to the Clinton Foundation - that'll help grease the wheels come election time :wink:
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    God I love conspiracy theories. The ARE everywhere.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Actually the real point Dennis is that there are clearly politicians out in S.Australia who felt they got stung last time with the 'donation to Livestrong' that whoops, went into Armstrong's back pocket instead. Now there's a PM with a track record of paying out large appearance fees from tax payers money for his own PR purposes - I wouldn't say that was a conspiracy theory but more a cause for concern about the use of public funds.

    Bet they wish they'd just made a straight donation to cancer research/Haiti instead.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    micron wrote:
    Actually the real point Dennis is that there are clearly politicians out in S.Australia who felt they got stung last time with the 'donation to Livestrong' that whoops, went into Armstrong's back pocket instead. Now there's a PM with a track record of paying out large appearance fees from tax payers money for his own PR purposes - I wouldn't say that was a conspiracy theory but more a cause for concern about the use of public funds.

    Bet they wish they'd just made a straight donation to cancer research/Haiti instead.

    Stay calm. It was only a tongue in cheek remark. I will stand by my belief, though, that
    politicians are "a distasteful bunch". :wink::wink:
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    micron wrote:
    Actually the real point Dennis is that there are clearly politicians out in S.Australia who felt they got stung last time with the 'donation to Livestrong' that whoops, went into Armstrong's back pocket instead.

    In the interests of balance, I don't believe anyone was under any illusion that the money wasn't going to Lance - It's not like he said it was for Livestrong. He had a fee, they paid it. I think the publics perception was he'd put the money into the charity but he said he considered it a standard "speaking engagement" fee. I call it paying for a famous cyclist to turn up for a race :wink:
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    iainf72 wrote:
    micron wrote:
    Actually the real point Dennis is that there are clearly politicians out in S.Australia who felt they got stung last time with the 'donation to Livestrong' that whoops, went into Armstrong's back pocket instead.

    In the interests of balance, I don't believe anyone was under any illusion that the money wasn't going to Lance - It's not like he said it was for Livestrong. He had a fee, they paid it. I think the publics perception was he'd put the money into the charity but he said he considered it a standard "speaking engagement" fee. I call it paying for a famous cyclist to turn up for a race :wink:

    +1 ..... One of the perks of being famous. One of these days I'll be asked to "turn up" but
    it will probably be from the police.
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Presumably they will be able to find of couple of Haitian earthquake victims who have cancer.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    iainf72 wrote:
    In the interests of balance, I don't believe anyone was under any illusion that the money wasn't going to Lance - It's not like he said it was for Livestrong. He had a fee, they paid it. I think the publics perception was he'd put the money into the charity but he said he considered it a standard "speaking engagement" fee. I call it paying for a famous cyclist to turn up for a race :wink:

    Not quite - the S. Australian Govt were under the complete illusion that the fee was to go to Livestrong until Armstrong announced at a press conference that "I'm not donating the fee to my foundation but treating it as income." Armstrong's fee for 2010 is just another in a string of fat appearance fees paid to athletes to make PR appearances with the PM. You can't blame the opposition for seizing on it, especially after last year.
  • le_patron
    le_patron Posts: 494
    Governments, local and national still have to win votes, so the public ultimately decides.

    Doesn't change the fact I think the whole thing reeks...

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