Second Cycle to Work Bike

antlaff

Hi

my company is running its own scheme and cant find legislation that says you can have a second scheme after the first one is finished!! my argument is for them to show me were it says you cant. can anybody give me a link to prove i'm correct?

many thks

Mountainboy2465

Will be following this, I absolutely intend starting the scheme again as soon as mine expires.

Have you argued wear & tear? By the time my bike is 12 month old I would imagine it will have well over 5000 miles on it. I think a new bike would be totally justified.

antlaff

Best i've got so far is from Halfords scheme

'Can I take part in more than one scheme?
You can technically apply again, each time your employer runs a scheme however, your employer may decide to prevent you from joining another scheme until your first Hire Term has lapsed.'

alan_sherman

My employer, who self run the scheme with their own consmer credit licence, say you must wait six months from the last one lapsing before starting again.

Mountainboy2465

That seems a little arbitrary...

Not that I would mind that much, the scheme I am on ends in September so waiting to March/April would mean whatever I chose would have a few months of decent weather to enjoy before being plunged into the grime again!

markshaw77

Don't think there is any strict "rules" per se - it appears to be up to your company/scheme

My company use Cyclescheme and I got a 2nd bike on the scheme within a month of completing the transfer of ownership for the 1st one.

There were 2 arguments I used (both true on different days!):

Firstly that I used the original bike to start part commuting by bike (i.e. to the station) before continuing by train/tube and now I wanted to get rid of my tube ticket and cycle both ends of my train journey - hence I needed a 2nd bike

Secondly that, on occasion, I wanted to cycle the whole way in to the office (24m) and therefore needed something more suitable for that length of journey.

My company took a while to decide, but came back with no issues, so I went ahead with a second bike.

Hope that helps.

fossyant

They can't stop you.....

Our biggest problem was the FD didn't think a bike could cost £1k.......which is the limit.....ho hum..........

PS I'm tempted to get another bike on the scheme. but I'm likely not to be there for the next year.......... :?

markp2

I am on my second R2W bike. The first one was paid off in July 2009 and I got another voucher for my Genesis in October 2009

antlaff

Hi Mark Shaw

That won't work for me unfortunatly - I'm 7 miles from work. I bought a Focus Maleta last year, lost 13lbs and have now got the cycling bug. Have reserved a Kona Haole 2009 with wiggle but the FD is fussing as scheme doesn't show that I'm allowed a second purchase.

smegurmum

you also may need to consider with running two schemes at the same time is that they wont be paying you in theory below minimum wage

Eau Rouge

You can only be on 1 scheme at any time, but as these schemes are usually 12 months that's rarely a problem.
Point out to them that you being on the scheme is cutting their National Insurance bill, a not-insignificant saving for them. If they don't let you back on the scheme, they have to pay more NI to employ you.

prawny

Yep that's fine you can't have two at the same time but there's nothing to stop you having another as soon as the last one is finished. Well there's something stopping me but she probably wouldn't notice anyway, I don't think she's ever been in our garage.

antlaff

Prawny/Eau Rouge - my current scheme finishes in March but was looking for the company ( who have plenty of cash) to buy the bike now, as getting good deal i believe from wiggle and i will start payments then in April.

simple_salmon

You can have two bikes at the same time but you would need to argue a clear need for commuting e.g. either side of a rail journey as mentioned.

After you have paid off the first bike (assuming it is offered to you) there is nothing to stop you joining again but if I was administering your scheme I would be asking you questions regarding the use of the bike for commuting purposes.

It sounds like I'm being beaurocratic but as I mentioned in the Campaigns section HMRC are clamping down hard on salary sacrifice schemes and I suspect that one reason for this is the number of members who they suspect are not commuting on the bikes.

It's at the point now where I have to attend a meeting this morning to see if our local tax office will allow our scheme to continue; although this is for other reasons that suspected abuse (I should point out) I have been asked to put controls on place in our salary sacrifice policy and I have had to turn down requests to join in the past that I knew would not be used for commuting.

prawny

Hmm, doublt you'd be able to do that, unless your company is small and freindly and are willing to give you a 'loan'. I'd have no chance, my stupid company wont let me have another bike for 2 years, they've changed it to one year now but because I signed up under the old scheme I'm stuck.

antlaff

i believe my request is genuine - i got the Focus last Feb and cycled 95% of the days i was at work right upto the 21st of December. I now want a lighter/faster bike( i hope!!) for the same commute on good days and summertime were i can lengthen my journey home.

simple_salmon

antlaff wrote:

i believe my request is genuine - i got the Focus last Feb and cycled 95% of the days i was at work right upto the 21st of December. I now want a lighter/faster bike( i hope!!) for the same commute on good days and summertime were i can lengthen my journey home.

That would be perfectly acceptable.

biondino

antlaff wrote:

Hi Mark Shaw

That won't work for me unfortunatly - I'm 7 miles from work. I bought a Focus Maleta last year, lost 13lbs and have now got the cycling bug. Have reserved a Kona Haole 2009 with wiggle but the FD is fussing as scheme doesn't show that I'm allowed a second purchase.

But it doesn't show you're NOT allowed a second purchase! I suspect the FD feels it's a hassle and doesn't want to administer it, so you'll probably need some formal confirmation to prove it's fine. But waiting till March does seem appropriate.

Cafewanda

prawny wrote:

Yep that's fine you can't have two at the same time but there's nothing to stop you having another as soon as the last one is finished. Well there's something stopping me but she probably wouldn't notice anyway, I don't think she's ever been in our garage.

shouldbeinbed

Maybe its the up front expense to the company that drip feeds back that he's bothered about in these straightened times. every penny counts and all that

Technically you're not buying the bike, your employer is, you're only leasing it from them for a fixed period, with the option to either give it back or negotiate a Fair Market Value to actually purchase it for yourself only at the end of the lease.

I guess they could argue that the don't give out 2 lease/company cars to 1 person so why would they do that for bikes?

spen666

fossyant wrote:

They can't stop you.....

Our biggest problem was the FD didn't think a bike could cost £1k.......which is the limit.....ho hum..........

PS I'm tempted to get another bike on the scheme. but I'm likely not to be there for the next year.......... :?

There is no absolute £1k limit on the C2W scheme in law

The reason this figure is often used is that ifas an employer you enter a consumer credit agreement of over £1k you need a consumer credit licence. These are verey expensive and most companies choose to stay away from them

A company with a consumer credit licence could allow you to buy a bike for far more than that, subject to your ability to repay the HP

antlaff

All happy ending - company have agreed to second purchase and will write off the first bike at the end of its term, thus I will not have to pay a final fee of 5% plus vat!!!

can't wait now to get my Kona Haole 2009 from Wiggle (one of todays 'BikeRadar Deals of the Week – Road Bikes')
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Sale/26/Kona_ ... 360039330/

Wallace1492

antlaff wrote:

All happy ending - company have agreed to second purchase and will write off the first bike at the end of its term, thus I will not have to pay a final fee of 5% plus vat!!!

can't wait now to get my Kona Haole 2009 from Wiggle (one of todays 'BikeRadar Deals of the Week – Road Bikes')
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Sale/26/Kona_ ... 360039330/

Says none available :shock:

antlaff

Wallace1492 wrote:

antlaff wrote:

All happy ending - company have agreed to second purchase and will write off the first bike at the end of its term, thus I will not have to pay a final fee of 5% plus vat!!!

can't wait now to get my Kona Haole 2009 from Wiggle (one of todays 'BikeRadar Deals of the Week – Road Bikes')
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Sale/26/Kona_ ... 360039330/

Says none available :shock:

I got one reserved last week, but they would only hold for 2 weeks

Agent57

I know a guy who has had 4 bikes on the C2W scheme. Doesn't seem to be a limit in his case.

the_hundredth_idiot

spen666 wrote:

fossyant wrote:

They can't stop you.....

Our biggest problem was the FD didn't think a bike could cost £1k.......which is the limit.....ho hum..........

PS I'm tempted to get another bike on the scheme. but I'm likely not to be there for the next year.......... :?

There is no absolute £1k limit on the C2W scheme in law

The reason this figure is often used is that ifas an employer you enter a consumer credit agreement of over £1k you need a consumer credit licence. These are verey expensive and most companies choose to stay away from them

A company with a consumer credit licence could allow you to buy a bike for far more than that, subject to your ability to repay the HP

I've heard that one before about the need for a CCLs stopping purchase of bikes costing over £1k. In fact, I suspect I've stated that myself at some point. But I've been thinking about it and there's something I don't get: your company isn't providing you with a loan. The company owns the bike and just allows you to use it for a couple of years, subject to deductions from your salary. If it was a loan, then wouldn't you own the bike and so not have to pay the final amount to transfer ownsership (which presumably takes it over £1k in many cases, though I guess there is no obligation to make the final payment so perhaps that's why it isn't counted as part of the "loan").

the_hundredth_idiot

Oh, and I meant to say that my firm is fine with starting a new C2W "purchase" as soon as payments for the first one have ceased (24 months in my case rather than the usual 12 months). I can't see why that wouldn't be allowed - if you had a company car, you wouldn't have to keep your first one for ever but would get a new one after typically 3 or 4 years.

Bikes don't last for ever - definitely not at the cheaper end of the scale and even at higher levels, it can be cheaper to get a new bike rather than replace the components on an old one. Didn't this month's C+ comment that the Planet X at £1k had an Ultegra groupset which is £800 by itself.

Once my current C2W is finished, I think I'm going to the dark side ... D)

NGale

My companies C2W scheme stipulates that I cannot apply for 18 months after being accepted onto the scheme. i.e I can't apply for a new bike when this one is finished and have to wait until 2011 for the next chance (which to be honest I am really hoping I won't be working there this time next year)

It is a bit daft really because my payments finish in March, yet SWAST only run the scheme for one month in feburary, so in effect I can only apply once every 24 months anyway!!

Chicane-UK

My employer was fine with me commencing another C2W scheme purchase after completition of my first... I'll probably do another after this one finishes too!!

VespaTrek

Anyone know if you can get two bikes under the Scheme? Ie a winter bike and a summer bike for commuting? We've got a limit of £4,000 and I was thinking of a MTB and a Road bike.

oscarbudgie

Agent57 wrote:

I know a guy who has had 4 bikes on the C2W scheme. Doesn't seem to be a limit in his case.

Me too - a copper with City of London - their scheme seems limited to Evans but can go over £1000