Interesting "whereabouts" story

dennisn
dennisn Posts: 10,601
edited January 2010 in Pro race
Since I'm technically inept I can't lead you to this story via the web. So here goes.

"In 2008 in Lochristi, Belgium, road cyclist Kevin van Impe was meeting with a funeral director to make arrangements for his infant son, Jayden, when a dope tester arrived and demanded that van Impe provide a urine sample for an out-of-competition test. When he asked permission to give it later, the official threatened him with a two-year ban."

Not sure how all that turned out. It may be old news to some but I found it interesting.

From - Outside magazine - Jan-Feb 2010 - Good Cop, Bad Cop - by Brian Alexander
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Comments

  • ultimobici
    ultimobici Posts: 44
    Here you go -

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/v ... rium-15187
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    And? What is your beef with testing of athletes exactly?

    Sure, poor timing and all but these kind of things happen.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • rockmount
    rockmount Posts: 761
    iainf72 wrote:
    And? What is your beef with testing of athletes exactly?

    Sure, poor timing and all but these kind of things happen.
    Pretty tasteless ... even for you.
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    iainf72 wrote:
    And? What is your beef with testing of athletes exactly?

    Sure, poor timing and all but these kind of things happen.

    No beef with testing. Just found the story interesting. Personally, I think you would have to be a pretty low life form to threaten a man in that situation. However, who can say how it exactly "went down", so to speak. I'd bet that the tester had something to say like "I'm only doing my job". That seems to be an excuse for most anything.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    rockmount wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    And? What is your beef with testing of athletes exactly?

    Sure, poor timing and all but these kind of things happen.
    Pretty tasteless ... even for you.

    It's terrible for poor Van Impe. However, it was just an unfortunate situation. There are several thousand OOC tests and one example is cited as the whole system being broken?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I seem to recall there was a follow up to the story and it wasn't all "you pee in a cup, I don't care what you're doing"

    Did you hear about the one where the guy said he'd be at home between 7 and 8 in the morning, the tester arrived at 7:20, took a sample and left by 7:40?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Chip \'oyler
    Chip \'oyler Posts: 2,323
    iainf72 wrote:
    rockmount wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    And? What is your beef with testing of athletes exactly?

    Sure, poor timing and all but these kind of things happen.
    Pretty tasteless ... even for you.

    It's terrible for poor Van Impe. However, it was just an unfortunate situation. There are several thousand OOC tests and one example is cited as the whole system being broken?

    He didn't mention that the system has broken down. I'm pretty sure the OP was highlighting the insensitivity of the tester
    Expertly coached by http://www.vitessecyclecoaching.co.uk/

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  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    rockmount wrote:
    Pretty tasteless ... even for you.

    PS - if you find me tasteless, I'd advise moving to a small village and never going into the real world. I'm a fairly pleasant chap compared to some.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    iainf72 wrote:
    rockmount wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    And? What is your beef with testing of athletes exactly?

    Sure, poor timing and all but these kind of things happen.
    Pretty tasteless ... even for you.

    It's terrible for poor Van Impe. However, it was just an unfortunate situation. There are several thousand OOC tests and one example is cited as the whole system being broken?

    Don't overreact to things(like I do). No one said anything about being broken. More an example of the tester who "could have cut the poor guy some slack".
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Chip \'oyler wrote:

    He didn't mention that the system has broken down. I'm pretty sure the OP was highlighting the insensitivity of the tester

    Den has been posting a fair bit lately about the whereabouts system and seems to be having a pop at the system. That's why I took it in that direction.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    iainf72 wrote:
    Chip \'oyler wrote:

    He didn't mention that the system has broken down. I'm pretty sure the OP was highlighting the insensitivity of the tester

    Den has been posting a fair bit lately about the whereabouts system and seems to be having a pop at the system. That's why I took it in that direction.

    Ya, c'mon, you're the only sane one out of all of us. We expect you to be the voice of
    reason around here and let the rest of us mouth off at each other. Then you sort of bring it all back together. :wink::wink:
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Chip \'oyler wrote:
    He didn't mention that the system has broken down. I'm pretty sure the OP was highlighting the insensitivity of the tester

    As usual with Dennis, deciphering his point is always much harder work than it needs to be.

    How many OOC tests are carried out every year? Thousands? We have one rather unfortunate incident, in which the tester may or may not have acted insensitively, so what are we supposed to conclude from that?
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    afx237vi wrote:
    Chip \'oyler wrote:
    He didn't mention that the system has broken down. I'm pretty sure the OP was highlighting the insensitivity of the tester

    As usual with Dennis, deciphering his point is always much harder work than it needs to be.

    How many OOC tests are carried out every year? Thousands? We have one rather unfortunate incident, in which the tester may or may not have acted insensitively, so what are we supposed to conclude from that?

    In the OP he didnt really make a point other than say he found it interesting , so really there was nothing to decipher all you are doing his is trying to pigeon hole Dennis into taking a point of view he hasnt expressed.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    afx237vi wrote:
    Chip \'oyler wrote:

    unfortunate incident, in which the tester may or may not have acted insensitively, so what are we supposed to conclude from that?

    I think turning up to take a sample at a crematorium displays a certain amount of insensitively irrespective of the reasons put forward to support it.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:

    As usual with Dennis, deciphering his point is always much harder work than it needs to be.

    How many OOC tests are carried out every year? Thousands? We have one rather unfortunate incident, in which the tester may or may not have acted insensitively, so what are we supposed to conclude from that?

    In the OP he didnt really make a point other than say he found it interesting , so really there was nothing to decipher all you are doing his is trying to pigeon hole Dennis into taking a point of view he hasnt expressed.

    So he starts a thread about something we can't read and doesn't have an opinion on. Very useful for a discussion forum.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    unfortunate incident, in which the tester may or may not have acted insensitively, so what are we supposed to conclude from that?

    I think turning up to take a sample at a crematorium displays a certain amount of insensitively irrespective of the reasons put forward to support it.

    It would seem so, except we only know one side of the story. I mean, how did the tester even know Van Impe was at the crematorium? Did he put it on his form or what?
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:

    As usual with Dennis, deciphering his point is always much harder work than it needs to be.

    How many OOC tests are carried out every year? Thousands? We have one rather unfortunate incident, in which the tester may or may not have acted insensitively, so what are we supposed to conclude from that?

    In the OP he didnt really make a point other than say he found it interesting , so really there was nothing to decipher all you are doing his is trying to pigeon hole Dennis into taking a point of view he hasnt expressed.

    So he starts a thread about something we can't read and doesn't have an opinion on. Very useful for a discussion forum.

    Why cant you read it ? and where in the OP did he express his opinion on it ?
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • tomb8555
    tomb8555 Posts: 229
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    unfortunate incident, in which the tester may or may not have acted insensitively, so what are we supposed to conclude from that?

    I think turning up to take a sample at a crematorium displays a certain amount of insensitively irrespective of the reasons put forward to support it.

    It would seem so, except we only know one side of the story. I mean, how did the tester even know Van Impe was at the crematorium? Did he put it on his form or what?

    I guess it must have been a home visit by the funeral director? Otherwise yes, he'd have had to have put the crematorium on his form.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    So he starts a thread about something we can't read and doesn't have an opinion on. Very useful for a discussion forum.

    Why cant you read it ? and where in the OP did he express his opinion on it ?

    I can't read it because I don't have a copy of Outside Magazine, and I'm guessing the article he is on about contains more than that one quote about Van Impe, which may or may not be out of context.

    Why start a thread if you don't have anything to add yourself?
  • hockinsk
    hockinsk Posts: 100
    Rider says where he will be for one hour each day and surprise, surprise a chap asks for a sample. As soon as the system starts making certain whereabouts off limits, the system is no longer black and white and less effective?

    End of the day, Impe told them he would be where he was and chap tried to his job. Timing sucks sometimes!
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:

    As usual with Dennis, deciphering his point is always much harder work than it needs to be.

    How many OOC tests are carried out every year? Thousands? We have one rather unfortunate incident, in which the tester may or may not have acted insensitively, so what are we supposed to conclude from that?

    In the OP he didnt really make a point other than say he found it interesting , so really there was nothing to decipher all you are doing his is trying to pigeon hole Dennis into taking a point of view he hasnt expressed.

    So he starts a thread about something we can't read and doesn't have an opinion on. Very useful for a discussion forum.

    If I wasn't so technically inept I would have posted a link to the article. Much like I would LIKE to post a picture or two on occasion but lack the brain to do it. In any case that was all there was in the article about that particular incident. It just struck me as an interesting
    and somewhat strange and sad tale.
  • PBo
    PBo Posts: 2,493
    hockinsk wrote:
    Rider says where he will be for one hour each day and surprise, surprise a chap asks for a sample. As soon as the system starts making certain whereabouts off limits, the system is no longer black and white and less effective?

    End of the day, Impe told them he would be where he was and chap tried to his job. Timing sucks sometimes!

    too many unknowns in this story. seems a bit strange.

    I could be wrong, but can't the rider pick any hour on their notification form? So why would he choose the hour he was at the crem? if his form said he'd be at home (because obviously the whole crem thing would have come up unplanned) , then surely the tester woudn't have followed him to the crem, as technically, van impe had already failed the system?

    irrespective of the details, in general, i just think that cutting some slack in such a situation is hardly a dopers charter!!!!
  • PBo
    PBo Posts: 2,493
    iainf72 wrote:
    And? What is your beef with testing of athletes exactly?

    Sure, poor timing and all but these kind of things happen.

    They don't HAVE to happen though, do they? A bit of common sense and compassion could have prevented this.

    Like I said in previous post, cutting some slack in such extreme circumstances is hardly a dopers charter.

    However important a robust testing system is, for me, 99.99% of the time If testers come at inorpportune moments for the riders, then tough - its a "condtion of entry' if you like.

    But this falls into the .01% - even though I know it leads to "where do we draw the line" arguements.

    Doping steals the soul of the sport - but If the war on drugs has absolutely no compassion, and takes no prisoners whatever the circumstances, then isn't that stealing a little of the soul of the sport too ?

    However, if we suddenly get a massive increase in missed dope tests due to a statistically odd rash in the peleton of stillborn infants, wives in fatal car crashes and cancer riddled grannies - then I reserve the right to change my mind!!
  • hockinsk
    hockinsk Posts: 100
    PBo wrote:
    I could be wrong, but can't the rider pick any hour on their notification form? So why would he choose the hour he was at the crem? if his form said he'd be at home (because obviously the whole crem thing would have come up unplanned) , then surely the tester woudn't have followed him to the crem, as technically, van impe had already failed the system?

    irrespective of the details, in general, i just think that cutting some slack in such a situation is hardly a dopers charter!!!!

    Impe probably did say he would be at home in the hour he specified. However, once he knew he wasn't going to be there, he would have notified AWA that he would be at Cematory to change his whereabouts and keep everything above board. I'm pretty sure you can't change the time, only the location.

    I agree it is insensitive, but if you start making, hospitals, churches & crematoriums exempts, you allow athletes to dodge the system by knowing they can dope on those days because AWA aren't allowed to collect a sample. The system needs this robustness otherwise you might as well not bother with it.
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    hockinsk wrote:

    Impe probably did say he would be at home in the hour he specified. However, once he knew he wasn't going to be there, he would have notified AWA that he would be at Cematory to change his whereabouts and keep everything above board. I'm pretty sure you can't change the time, only the location.

    I agree it is insensitive, but if you start making, hospitals, churches & crematoriums exempts, you allow athletes to dodge the system by knowing they can dope on those days because AWA aren't allowed to collect a sample. The system needs this robustness otherwise you might as well not bother with it.

    Who wouldn't be p!ssed off if you are interrupted at your son's funeral to take a dope test? C'mon, there's being robust and then there's being stupid.
    There's a lot more to life than cycling, even for the cyclists themselves! you have to have some perspective. It's just a sport, and for the cyclists - just a career.

    Some compassion from the dope testers wouldn't have gone amis.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • hockinsk
    hockinsk Posts: 100
    Impe wasn't at his Son's funeral. He was in a meeting with the funeral director which I assume he arranged in the same hour he told AWA where he would be. Obviously a horrible time for Impe, but there are dopers out there who would exploit AWA if there were loopholes in the system.

    We don't even know 100% the full details of what happened. It might be that Impe failed to update AWA and so the agent had no choice but to go and find him if this was the case.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    That's why there's a "three strikes" rule, you can miss a test or two.
  • hockinsk
    hockinsk Posts: 100
    And dopers exploit this rule too all the time.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Kléber wrote:
    That's why there's a "three strikes" rule, you can miss a test or two.

    Only if the rider isn't in the location he put on his form. If the tester met with Van Impe and Van Impe told him to go away, that's a denial and an automatic ban.

    I agree with hockinsk. The whole system only works because it is so inflexible, but something about this case doesnt add up.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    You're right and I think the CAS should probably agree with Van Impe as well.

    But this is very much the exception to the rule, we'd do better to focus on 99.9% of other no-shows, denials, refusals etc, plus all the athletes across many sports who whinge about this.

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