OT: I must be mad

Big Wib

but due to a second cancer related death (of friends & family, not me) within the last few months I have now signed up for the Brighton marathon in April. (mummy :shock: )

As this is several miles further than I have run before do any of you fit people out there have any advice, and does anyone know how much cycling can offset lack of running?

Ta

redddraggon

Cycling is of little help.

If you've not done much running, it'll be a shock to the system. Better start cracking on the running :!:

will3

I dunno, if you cycle the whole distance you can avoid any running whatsoever.



Or did I misunderstand somthing?

Big Wib

redddraggon wrote:

Cycling is of little help.

If you've not done much running, it'll be a shock to the system. Better start cracking on the running :!:

like the new picture

i have done some running recently, but probably not enough. like you say, time to get serious.

I'm just slightly worried that I might have to largely forgo the cycling to keep up with a running schedule, but then that will interfere with my sportive training etc

@will3, thank you for the sage advice. it is of course a fair point well made

sebastiandangerfield

Absolutely none!

However, If you're following a decent running schedule there will be cross training days where cycling will be really low impact anti-shin splint goodness!

Good luck and have fun!

bigmat

I'm in the same boat, running London marathon at end of April. Running is very different, but there is some crossover in terms of basic aerobic fitness. Also psychologically I'm probably more up for it having ridden several century plus rides, I'm used to long periods of suffering for no good reason! I did a half marathon a few years ago, from what I recall the first few weeks training are the worst, once you can run a mile, you can run 5 miles, 10 miles etc. etc It all just comes down to fitness and stamina after that. I'm up to 10km so far, reckon I should be up to race distance in time.

thel33ter

The aerobic fitness is a big part, I came 27th in my school inter-house cross country race last year. Between the last event and this year's I spent lots of time cycling and this year I won easily after almost no running training.

grahamg123

the leg strength cycling gives you really helps if you have to run up hill. other than that, the base aerobic fitness means you'll be able to follow a more structured run programme from the off but running is ALWAYS hard.

it really depends if you are running to complete or compete - if you just want to finish it make sure you cover ~race distance, over similar terrain, at least once as a training run. this gives you the "time on your feet" necessary to prep your body and allows you to sort a nutrition strategy (you DO NOT want to bonk on a run - it's like doing it on a bike only worse!). make sure this run is no later in your training plan than a month before the actual race - you should be reducing you weekly mileage (tapering) over the month leading to the race. as long as you've done the longest run, a weekly mileage of ~50 should see you through. cycling comes in as the perfect active recovery tool.
if you're going for a fast(ish) time, say sub 3hrs, then not only do you need the miles but everyone has to count. weekly mileages in excess of 100 are the norm with a high %age of the miles being at tempo/race pace. i'm going for ~2hr40' at London and i'm running twice a day, 6 days a week but only 3 of the runs are "recovery" pace. i'm getting on the bike once or twice a week if i'm lucky it's completely buggered my hopes of riding the summer race season or doing the Fred Whitton.

Wallace1492

Cycling will improve your fitness, of that there is no doubt.
I found that it certainly helped with stamina the few times I ran, but I would recon the running helps even more.

But for doing a full marathon, you will have to pound out the miles, and a lot of them quite regularly. There is a huge step up from half to full marathon, and a very big mental and physical barrier to get over.

All the best!!

essex-commuter

I'd recommend looking at the Runnersworld website and following a programme from there.

I've run the London Marathon for the past 4 years as well as others. Cycling gives you the fitness but there is sitll the need to condition your muscles to running...the worst thing I find is my hamstrings, cycling makes them awfully tight. Stretch stretch stretch.

I run the marathon between 3hrs 15min and 3hrs 30min, for that I was running 50 miles a week from Feb to Apr for the London as well as including sppedwork and fartlek sessions, it's pretty tough when your cycling as well (150 miles a week in my case).

Do it though, you won't regret it...the London Marathon is a brilliant experience and a big tick in the box.

amnezia

essex-commuter wrote:

I'd recommend looking at the Runnersworld website and following a programme from there.

I've run the London Marathon for the past 4 years as well as others. Cycling gives you the fitness but there is sitll the need to condition your muscles to running...the worst thing I find is my hamstrings, cycling makes them awfully tight. Stretch stretch stretch.

+1 cycling shortens and stiffens your hamstrings.

If you're training for a marathon you should be doing a lot more running than cycling

mrc1

grahamg123 wrote:

the leg strength cycling gives you really helps if you have to run up hill. other than that, the base aerobic fitness means you'll be able to follow a more structured run programme from the off but running is ALWAYS hard.

it really depends if you are running to complete or compete - if you just want to finish it make sure you cover ~race distance, over similar terrain, at least once as a training run. this gives you the "time on your feet" necessary to prep your body and allows you to sort a nutrition strategy (you DO NOT want to bonk on a run - it's like doing it on a bike only worse!). make sure this run is no later in your training plan than a month before the actual race - you should be reducing you weekly mileage (tapering) over the month leading to the race. as long as you've done the longest run, a weekly mileage of ~50 should see you through. cycling comes in as the perfect active recovery tool.
if you're going for a fast(ish) time, say sub 3hrs, then not only do you need the miles but everyone has to count. weekly mileages in excess of 100 are the norm with a high %age of the miles being at tempo/race pace. i'm going for ~2hr40' at London and i'm running twice a day, 6 days a week but only 3 of the runs are "recovery" pace. i'm getting on the bike once or twice a week if i'm lucky it's completely buggered my hopes of riding the summer race season or doing the Fred Whitton.

Im aiming for a 3hr marathon this year and would concur with the above advice, except for running marathon distance in training. IMO you should run for the length of time that you intend to finish in, but at a slower pace than race day, aiming for 22 or so miles as your longest run. Running 26 miles in training is going to seriously impact your body and will stop you training properly in the weeks after.

In terms of cycling I find that it is good for base fitness and also helps you deal with the mental side of things (ie if you regularly push yourself on your bike you will be much more familiar with the feeling of working hard and will be better able to deal with it) however the cross over pretty much ends there in my opinion. The major reason being that on a bike if you are knackered you can stop pedalling but keep moving !!!

In terms of cycling in addition to running I have in the past structured my training so that I use my commute to run into work and then cycle home or vice versa. That way you still get the running training in but you retain some cycle miles.

hoolio

I agree with the previous posts, cycling is no substitute for putting in the running miles (although it can be good for loosening the legs up the day after a longer run).
I found that decent trainers are a must - going to a specialised running shop where they evaluate your running style and recommend the best trainers to suit is well worth it. It could save you a whole lot of discomfort and even injury later on in your training, especially when you ramp up the miles.
Best of luck with the marathon.

mrc1

hoolio wrote:

I agree with the previous posts, cycling is no substitute for putting in the running miles (although it can be good for loosening the legs up the day after a longer run).
I found that decent trainers are a must - going to a specialised running shop where they evaluate your running style and recommend the best trainers to suit is well worth it. It could save you a whole lot of discomfort and even injury later on in your training, especially when you ramp up the miles.
Best of luck with the marathon.

Oh and a proper running analysis and trainer purchase at a proper running shop (not a sport shop) is an absolute must or your risk knackering your knees, hips and ankles.

cjcp

Focus on quality miles, not quantity.

My training was half-@rsed. I ran part of the way back from work (got off the train a few stations early) twice, maybe three times, a week, with a long-ish run on the weekend. The runs from the station were 2.9 miles at their shortest, and 5 miles at their longest. The long run on the w/e was built up, but never went higher than 17 miles.

I tried to do the short runs reasonably quickly (for me) and with a backpack. I managed 3:38, which hurt like hell. By comparison, a chap in my office did a lot more miles a week, but at a slower pace, and came in 20 mins behind. Hence, quality, not quantity is the key.

Lose weight too.

Hill reps is a good session to raise the pain threshold.

And get properly fitted for trainers.

Good luck.

essex-commuter

mrc1 wrote:

Oh and a proper running analysis and trainer purchase

And chuck 'em away when they are worn out. Mine can still look new (in the Summer) but after 600 miles they go in the bin (or delegated to 'gardening' which I rarely do!)...it makes a big difference.

il_principe

cjcp wrote:

And get properly fitted for trainers.

Good luck.

Or don't use trainers at all.

Trainers are bad mm'kay

I don't understand running. It's very bad for your body. My sis ran a marathon when she was 21 and her left knee has be f*cked ever since.

Good luck though, nutter!

mrc1

Il Principe wrote:

cjcp wrote:

And get properly fitted for trainers.

Good luck.

Or don't use trainers at all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/6968891/Why-expensive-trainers-could-be-worse-than-useless.html

I don't understand running. It's very bad for your body. My sis ran a marathon when she was 21 and her left knee has be f*cked ever since.

Good luck though, nutter!

I love these blokes though "So many people waste their money buying expensive shoes, instead they should be running free and naturally blah blah blah..... Now instead please buy my book/DVD/personal training sessions".

Cafewanda

redddraggon wrote:

Cycling is of little help.

If you've not done much running, it'll be a shock to the system. Better start cracking on the running :!:

+1

Hopefully you'll enjoy the experience

Paulie W

mrc1 wrote:

Im aiming for a 3hr marathon this year and would concur with the above advice, except for running marathon distance in training. IMO you should run for the length of time that you intend to finish in, but at a slower pace than race day, aiming for 22 or so miles as your longest run. Running 26 miles in training is going to seriously impact your body and will stop you training properly in the weeks after.

+1 on this. Running actual distance at race pace is not a good plan. I might add that you should try running something like two thirds distance at your planned race pace.

Cafewanda

cjcp wrote:

Hill reps is a good session to raise the pain threshold.

........... but helps to strengthen the legs and. Still hate them with a passion though

Big Wib

thanks all, much appreciated

I have the properly fitted shoes which are OK at the moment miles wise but I'm planning on getting them checked again towards the end of Feb so I'm not running with either new or too old shoes.

I'm following Liz Helling's training schedule, so I'm on active recovery (!) tonight. My first hill session is next week - assuming of course I can find an ice free hill.

target time is 4 - 4.5 hours so not planning on setting the world alight

beverick

I used to do a lot of running (up to 25k) and I'd say that although cycling doesn't assist in specific training for running (ie building the correct muscles) it does help for aerobic fitness and stamina. It also does help you to build and 'tune' muscles non-impact (which is important as, as others have mentioned, distance running is a very good way of bu&&ering you up!)

I used to intersperse running (40-50% by time) with swimming (10%), cycling (25-30%) general gym (10%) and circuit training (5%).

I used to run a slow paced race distance a couple of weeks before the race but the general training was a mixture of around 10 - 15k runs either doing 'intervals' or at at race pace or faster.

I was training for a marathon in 2006 when my left knee decided to pack in. I was on for a 3h 15 - 3h 30 finish.

See http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/rp.php

Regards

Bob

cjcp

beverick wrote:

I used to do a lot of running (up to 25k) and I'd say that although cycling doesn't assist in specific training for running (ie building the correct muscles) it does help for aerobic fitness and stamina. It also does help you to build and 'tune' muscles non-impact (which is important as, as others have mentioned, distance running is a very good way of bu&&ering you up!)

I used to intersperse running (40-50% by time) with swimming (10%), cycling (25-30%) general gym (10%) and circuit training (5%).

I used to run a slow paced race distance a couple of weeks before the race but the general training was a mixture of around 10 - 15k runs either doing 'intervals' or at at race pace or faster.

I was training for a marathon in 2006 when my left knee decided to pack in. I was on for a 3h 15 - 3h 30 finish.

See http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/rp.php

Regards

Bob

If I was going to do it again, and that's unlikely, I'd do a bit more running, but more cycling in between running days to keep the fitness up and weight off. I'm lighter now by a fair bit than when I ran the London M.

grahamg123

sorry, i didn't mean to suggest that any near race distance training should be done at race pace...and by near race distance i meant in excess of 20miles. i would normally suggest this approach to someone who hasn't "gone the distance" before but is an experienced runner, to overcome the psychological barrier of covering 26miles and, as i said before, to work out a nutrition stategy.

Big Wib

cjcp wrote:

If I was going to do it again, and that's unlikely, I'd do a bit more running, but more cycling in between running days to keep the fitness up and weight off. I'm lighter now by a fair bit than when I ran the London M.

Days off! Only get 2 rest days and an active recovery day - which does include cycling - a week on the programme I'm following.

cjcp

Big Wib wrote:

cjcp wrote:

If I was going to do it again, and that's unlikely, I'd do a bit more running, but more cycling in between running days to keep the fitness up and weight off. I'm lighter now by a fair bit than when I ran the London M.

Days off! Only get 2 rest days and an active recovery day - which does include cycling - a week on the programme I'm following.

As I said in my first post, my training was half-@rsed!

biondino

grahamg123 wrote:

i'm going for ~2hr40' at London and i'm running twice a day, 6 days a week but only 3 of the runs are "recovery" pace. i'm getting on the bike once or twice a week if i'm lucky it's completely buggered my hopes of riding the summer race season or doing the Fred Whitton.

Blimey - that would have you 192nd in last year's race! Are you a pro? Chapeau!

Big Wib

biondino wrote:

grahamg123 wrote:

i'm going for ~2hr40' at London and i'm running twice a day, 6 days a week but only 3 of the runs are "recovery" pace. i'm getting on the bike once or twice a week if i'm lucky it's completely buggered my hopes of riding the summer race season or doing the Fred Whitton.

Blimey - that would have you 192nd in last year's race! Are you a pro? Chapeau!

indeed :shock: . I'll be delighted with under 5 hours & happy just to get round

my slimline form coughs is not ideally suited to long distance running. Or indeed any sporting activity other than going down hill.

Still, I'm still following my training programme & felt I could have run for longer when I finished yesterday which is good - although the speed wasn't so impressive.