Brake pad at an angle

birdy247
birdy247 Posts: 454
edited January 2010 in Workshop
Hi

I have just fitted a pair of swisstop greens to my shimano front brake. The left pad is perfectly parallel to the wheel rim, whereas the right brake pad is not. The front part of it is much closer to the wheel rim than the rear. I cannot work out how to adjust this. Any thoughts?

Thanks
www.turbotraining.co.uk

Comments

  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,710
    Far and away the best gadget for setting this up is one of these:

    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=17674&category=216

    That's a US website, but you can probably find one somewhere closer to home.

    Turns a fiddly job into a piece of cake.

    As an alternative, I know a few mechanics who set the toe in by slipping a cable tie round the rim at the rear of the pad when installing it, with the leading edge on the rim itself - that gives a pretty good setting for toe in, just I find it still a bit fiddly to get right. For the sake of a few bucks, or quid, the Tacx tool is a steal.
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    As brake pads wear, they will naturally become "toed-in": wheel rotation twists the calliper enough to wear the leading edge (back) of the pad more heavily. Consequently, there is no benefit in "toeing-in" pads from new, though many mechanics consider it a necessary procedure, mistakenly believing it affects brake squeal.

    Once, people were so determined to set their pads in this pre-worn position, that they bent the actual callipers themselves (Splendidly, Park used to sell a tool designed to do just this!). Most pads these days –I'm sure the Swisstop ones– have an eccentric ball and washer fixing which allows you to set the pad angle. If you loosen the bolt, you should find that the pad has a limited range of movement in all directions.

    I think the best way to set pads is perfectly parallel to the rim: loosen the pad so it's just moveable, hold the brake on moderately tightly, and align the pad so it lies flat to the rim, then tighten it all up. Make sure that the pad cannot foul the tyre at any point, or drop below the rim into the spokes.
  • torrens
    torrens Posts: 32
    100% in agreement with balthazar; he elegantly refutes the old toe-in canard!
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    +2. Right with Balthazar. I have always thought this 'toe in' thing was rubbish. I have always set them as he says.
    My Fleet.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    John.T wrote:
    +2. Right with Balthazar. I have always thought this 'toe in' thing was rubbish. I have always set them as he says.

    +3
  • birdy247
    birdy247 Posts: 454
    I am trying to get them both parallel, but the right one doesn't want to go. The swiss stops's has 2 washers. A big one and a small one. At the moment, I have them both on the outside of the calliper, is this right?
    www.turbotraining.co.uk
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    I've never fitted these pads, but if they're like this:

    FullFlashProGHP.jpg

    then I'd say the bigger washer goes inside (on the same side as the pad holder). It looks like it is concave to match the holder itself, allowing some adjustment.
  • birdy247
    birdy247 Posts: 454
    Thats what im doing wrong then! Thanks very much
    www.turbotraining.co.uk
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,710
    If you can get the brakes to work ok without toe-in, then fine I guess.

    My experience however is that without setting up a little toe-in, the brakes squeal to varying degrees, and also lose the smooth progressive feel, especially at light pressure to just slow down a bit. Dead parallel means they are either full on or full off... and they get a bit grabby..
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Wheelspinner wrote:
    If you can get the brakes to work ok without toe-in, then fine I guess.
    My experience however is that without setting up a little toe-in, the brakes squeal to varying degrees, and also lose the smooth progressive feel, especially at light pressure to just slow down a bit. Dead parallel means they are either full on or full off... and they get a bit grabby..
    Toe-in only lasts a couple of hundred miles at best. It just wears the blocks down faster. If the modulation is poor or the brakes grab you are using the wrong blocks.
    My Fleet.
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,710
    John.T wrote:
    Wheelspinner wrote:
    If you can get the brakes to work ok without toe-in, then fine I guess.
    My experience however is that without setting up a little toe-in, the brakes squeal to varying degrees, and also lose the smooth progressive feel, especially at light pressure to just slow down a bit. Dead parallel means they are either full on or full off... and they get a bit grabby..
    Toe-in only lasts a couple of hundred miles at best. It just wears the blocks down faster. If the modulation is poor or the brakes grab you are using the wrong blocks.


    Yes, thank you for your opinion John T, uninformed as it is.

    I use the correct brake blocks on all the calipers I use, for the rim types they are set for.

    I have set up brake blocks many times over thirty five years of riding, on all kinds of bikes, and in MY EXPERIENCE, toe in works better.

    See, I was simply offering my viewpoint on what works best. If your opinion or experience is different that's fine, which I also said. You might do well to read properly before writing a reply implying I am a complete f**kwit and have no idea what I'm saying.

    Tw*t.
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    :lol::lol::) they reckon spokes last forever .
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Wheelspinner wrote:
    John.T wrote:
    Wheelspinner wrote:
    If you can get the brakes to work ok without toe-in, then fine I guess.
    My experience however is that without setting up a little toe-in, the brakes squeal to varying degrees, and also lose the smooth progressive feel, especially at light pressure to just slow down a bit. Dead parallel means they are either full on or full off... and they get a bit grabby..
    Toe-in only lasts a couple of hundred miles at best. It just wears the blocks down faster. If the modulation is poor or the brakes grab you are using the wrong blocks.
    Yes, thank you for your opinion John T, uninformed as it is.
    I use the correct brake blocks on all the calipers I use, for the rim types they are set for.
    I have set up brake blocks many times over thirty five years of riding, on all kinds of bikes, and in MY EXPERIENCE, toe in works better.
    See, I was simply offering my viewpoint on what works best. If your opinion or experience is different that's fine, which I also said. You might do well to read properly before writing a reply implying I am a complete f**kwit and have no idea what I'm saying.
    Tw*t.
    There is no need to be abusive. I did not imply anything of the sort. I was only giving my views after a mere 50+ years of cycling during which time I have never had to get anyone to do anything for me on the maintainance side. I said that toe-in will not last long. This is true as the blocks soon wear to the rims. As for blocks I have tried BBB ones some years ago and they performed exactly as you said. On or off and grabbed badly when hot. I now use Koolstop Salmon which were superb when getting off the Tourmalet as fast as possible in a storm a few years back.
    I do not seem to be the only one who finds toe-in to be ineffective long term. Check some of the earlier posts.
    My Fleet.

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