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Why don't we have 36 tooth cassettes?

NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
edited January 2010 in MTB general
Press are getting excited about XX but it seems like it has 2 big advantages... The wider range cassette, and 1:1.5 ratios at the front. (ie, 24/36, 26/39) for cleaner shifting. And close ratios with the 10 speeds of course. Now, it seems to me that 2 of those could be done right now with 9-speed, and that all that's holding us back is the 34T cassette. Is there some reason I'm too daft to see that nobody's making a 36-11 9-speed block already?
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  • ride_wheneverride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    gaps too big, and your mech would need an enormous capacity!
  • stevet1992stevet1992 Posts: 1,502
    Ive never really needed a 34 cog unless im being lazy ! Just peddle harder :P[/i]
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  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=31059

    shimano do one at deore level which is 12 - 36, altho obviously you could change the 12t for an 11t easily :)
  • stumpyjonstumpyjon Posts: 4,069
    Ive never really needed a 34 cog unless im being lazy !

    I love comments like that, I hope it was tongue in cheek.
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  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    stevet1992 wrote:
    Ive never really needed a 34 cog unless im being lazy ! Just peddle harder :P[/i]

    The point of the lower cassette gearing is that you can run a bigger little ring and have the same or a similiar low gear. And that means you can run a bigger middle ring, which means 2x9 gets to be a much better option. (it's already a very good one).
    gaps too big, and your mech would need an enormous capacity!

    Same capacity as XX, so obviously not impossible. The gaps wouldn't be massive, 11-32 works fine in 8-speed after all.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • stevet1992stevet1992 Posts: 1,502
    stumpyjon wrote:
    Ive never really needed a 34 cog unless im being lazy !

    I love comments like that, I hope it was tongue in cheek.

    Yes it was meant tounge in cheek ! Im probally the first person to hit the granny gears on a climb :oops: ... and the fact that i live on the flatest part of the Kent :D A mole hill is the biggest hill you'll find down here :lol:
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  • bomberesquebomberesque Posts: 1,701
    iirc there is a company in the US that makes bigger inner ring replacements.

    tbh 22/34 is already very low, although I could see the point of running dual ring front a la XX so the lowest was 30/36 or something.

    interesting that shimano do have one (12-36T) available in Deore, perhaps there's a strength problem with mounting a ring >34T on the spider they use for the higher range cassettes?
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  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Most derailers can't physically clear a 36.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    I suppose SRAM won't want to do it, since it'd distract from XX, as well.
    tbh 22/34 is already very low, although I could see the point of running dual ring front a la XX so the lowest was 30/36 or something.

    22/34 is Kirroughtree Winching Gear :lol:
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  • GHillGHill Posts: 2,402
    Some info here on Shimano's 12-36. Seems like it is good for 29ers and the XT shadow long cage has no problem stretching to that 36 teeth cog.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Hmm. Wonder what the other cogs are on it.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • xtreemxtreem Posts: 2,965
    36 teeth = more weight
    And you'll be faster by pushing the bike then pedaling.
    Or the hill will be steep enough that the tires won't grip at all. :)
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Xtreem wrote:
    36 teeth = more weight
    And you'll be faster by pushing the bike then pedaling.
    Or the hill will be steep enough that the tires won't grip at all. :)

    Nah, think you're missing the point, it's not to get lower gears- specifically looking at 2x9 or 1x9 here, so you'd run a higher front cog/cogs.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • xtreemxtreem Posts: 2,965
    Bigger first ring = + more weight.
    But you're loosing the biggest ring as you said, so you actualy gain a
    little or no weight considering most big rings are aluminium.

    Btw, for what kind of bikes are we talikng about.
    1x9 for XC might not be possible. Either you won't be able to pedal on the uphills or on the downhills.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Xtreem wrote:
    Btw, for what kind of bikes are we talikng about.
    1x9 for XC might not be possible. Either you won't be able to pedal on the uphills or on the downhills.

    Lots of people already use 1x9 for XC :? Plenty of people singlespeed, even. I wouldn't do it myself, I'm not fit enough and my favourite routes have some evil climbs but it's possible. 2x9 works very well but could be made better.

    Losing the big ring isn't just about weight, it's also clearance- I run 2x9 currently because I got fed up of smacking the 44T ring. Done right, the fractionally bigger big ring on the back wouldn't add much weight.
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  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    if you go to a 36 design you will be pushing the rear mech design, with there be clearance?
    will the mech have the range to cover the total number of teeth?
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  • x9 for XC might not be possible. Either you won't be able to pedal on the uphills or on the downhills.
    mindboggling comment...
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    Because bikes aren't designed to be ridden up vertical walls. :)
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    x9 for XC might not be possible. Either you won't be able to pedal on the uphills or on the downhills.
    mindboggling comment...

    It depends on the hills doesn't it? Which is why I run a 44/32/22 and 11-32 to give me maximum flexibilty and options.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    nicklouse wrote:
    if you go to a 36 design you will be pushing the rear mech design, with there be clearance?
    will the mech have the range to cover the total number of teeth?

    Well, this is the question- and if not, why not ;) I'm not especially keen to try it myself, not with a deore block at least, but it seems odd to me that it's not already a serious, supported option.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    Well currently the max cog that will work with a Shimano rear mech is 34T

    so a 36T will need a redesign.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
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  • ratty2kratty2k Posts: 3,872
    Pretty sure the 36T cassette is aimed more at 29ers... Dunno if this would work, but with a longer mech hanger you'd get the clearance?
    I know the new GF Rumblefish has the 36T cassette fitted as standard and as far as I know just a standard rear mech..
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  • It depends on the hills doesn't it?

    no, it depends on the rider.
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    i see that it has a 12T small cog so the range is only one different,

    and changing the mech hanger would make sense.
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  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    "no, it depends on the rider."

    In reality it is both, they are not really exclusive of each other. I spin out my 32/11 on some stretches and long hills, and need the winch gear for others. But the original statement made is perfectly true for many average riders with long steep hills. Even pro XC riders, most of who use at least a double chanring.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    nicklouse wrote:
    Well currently the max cog that will work with a Shimano rear mech is 34T

    so a 36T will need a redesign.

    Not according to Shimano, they say XT works with 36. But, if the mechs can't deal with it then there's an obvious answer.

    Point I guess I'm making is that XX is being heralded as the second coming, but none of the advantages I've seen to 2x10 need to be exclusively 2x10. Changing mech hangers or redesigning mechs is less work than a whole new drivetrain standard after all.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    TBH i just looked at XTR.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
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  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    How much does the deore cassette weigh? Over a pound I reckon.

    One of my thoughts is that if you are going to add the weight of a front shifter, mech, and cabling into the equation, then the extra 70g or so of another chainring is only a little more. Though shifting between gears and chainlines may be better on a 2x9 or 2x10.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Yup, but still thinking of ground clearance here.

    Nicklouse, fair play, that was a fair assumption. I'd no clue about XT til this thread.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Did you know shimano have some hubs with a minimum of 9 teeth?!

    32 ring with a 9-40 cassette would be nice lol.
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