Will Bertie ever win a one day race ?

moray_gub

Just having a browse at past Tour greats and if we include him in that category i notice he is unique in that he has never yet won a one day race wheras all the greats did Coppi,Bobet,Merckyx,Hinault,Anquetil,Lemond Indurain,Armstrong . He has time on his side but what do you think can he turn his undoubted ability into wiining at least a classic or a semi classic or is he gonna be remembered as a rider who only ever shone in week long races and GTs. Personally i think maybe he has a Liege in him

iainf72

I've also noticed this. Quite amazing actually.

Agreed about Liege - I reckon he could also talk Fleche or Amstel if he got to the end in the right position (not that easy)

I doubt he'd ever hold the form for long enough but I'd like to see him take a tilt at Lombardy.

calvjones

Could win Liege, or Amstel.

I suspect (sadly) he may not, because he doesn't care enough. Also, we have no way of knowing if he has any one-day tactical nous; the sort that maybe Lance lacked a bit? And indeed LeMond. Always still amazes me that LeMond never won a Classic.

Which did Indurain win? Can't remember...

gilbertsmum

i think if he put the training in for it, he could win any of the hilly one-days...

but it depends on if he would risk burning out before the tour

micron

San Sebastian, surely?

moray_gub

calvjones wrote:

Could win Liege, or Amstel.

I suspect (sadly) he may not, because he doesn't care enough. Also, we have no way of knowing if he has any one-day tactical nous; the sort that maybe Lance lacked a bit? And indeed LeMond. Always still amazes me that LeMond never won a Classic.

Which did Indurain win? Can't remember...

He won San Sebastian in 1990 ok not a monument as such but still a decent win, Lemond and LA won the worlds so i suppose that counts as major one dayer.

calvjones

Apart from tactics I guess it depends on how much stage race success depends on recovery versus Jump. Could Bertie get away (and stay away) from a Gilbert or Bettini on Redoute? I suppose he'd have to win like AS, but then you need a strong classics team...

Would love to see it.

Kléber

As said above, he could win in Liege and possibly the Amstel too. There's San Sebastian and Lombardy as well. I'd add that on the right course, he could win the Worlds too. That said, he's good but lacks a powerful sprint, the likes of Valverde are better. But if Andy Schleck can potter off the front to win in Liege - the way he overtook Gilbert was very impressive - then Contador can win too.

But I fear cycling is becoming dominated by the Tour. Those three weeks in July are magical at times but the season is very long and Contador has a habit of going awol from August onwards. Although you can't blame him from wanting time off after the stress he's been through this year.

calvjones

Moray Gub wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Could win Liege, or Amstel.

I suspect (sadly) he may not, because he doesn't care enough. Also, we have no way of knowing if he has any one-day tactical nous; the sort that maybe Lance lacked a bit? And indeed LeMond. Always still amazes me that LeMond never won a Classic.

Which did Indurain win? Can't remember...

He won San Sebastian in 1990 ok not a monument as such but still a decent win, Lemond and LA won the worlds so i suppose that counts as major one dayer.

this really makes you realise how bloody good Eddy, Hinault and Coppi were.

victorponf

He is going to win WCh in 2013, in Ponferrada, Spain

micron

He has time on his side and may well feel he doesn't have to prove his GT credentials in a very few years - by which point he'll be in his cycling prime.

I suppose it depends on what he wants out of his career - to be defined as a 'great' or just to enjoy what he does and win when he can.

moray_gub

[quote="Kléber"onwards. Although you can't blame him from wanting time off after the stress he's been through this year.[/quote]

What stress was that then ?

The Prodigy

As above, Liege, Amstel, Lombardy are possible. I'm not sure how Contador sees the sport. Does he see it as all about the the Tour? How he raced last year would say its all about the tour. But maybe he fealt he had something to prove after being handed the tour in 2007 and facing up to the old man.

Dunno, interesting though.

Would personally love to see him try his hand at a few more events.

moray_gub

calvjones wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Could win Liege, or Amstel.

I suspect (sadly) he may not, because he doesn't care enough. Also, we have no way of knowing if he has any one-day tactical nous; the sort that maybe Lance lacked a bit? And indeed LeMond. Always still amazes me that LeMond never won a Classic.

Which did Indurain win? Can't remember...

He won San Sebastian in 1990 ok not a monument as such but still a decent win, Lemond and LA won the worlds so i suppose that counts as major one dayer.

this really makes you realise how bloody good Eddy, Hinault and Coppi were.

Yep top three no doubt i suppose a rider like those three is a thing of the past

The Prodigy

Moray Gub wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Could win Liege, or Amstel.

I suspect (sadly) he may not, because he doesn't care enough. Also, we have no way of knowing if he has any one-day tactical nous; the sort that maybe Lance lacked a bit? And indeed LeMond. Always still amazes me that LeMond never won a Classic.

Which did Indurain win? Can't remember...

He won San Sebastian in 1990 ok not a monument as such but still a decent win, Lemond and LA won the worlds so i suppose that counts as major one dayer.

this really makes you realise how bloody good Eddy, Hinault and Coppi were.

Yep top three no doubt i suppose a rider like those three is a thing of the past

Maybe not, Cancellara anyone? Wasn't he being touted as a Tour winner last year by Sean Kelly.

moray_gub

The Prodigy wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Could win Liege, or Amstel.

I suspect (sadly) he may not, because he doesn't care enough. Also, we have no way of knowing if he has any one-day tactical nous; the sort that maybe Lance lacked a bit? And indeed LeMond. Always still amazes me that LeMond never won a Classic.

Which did Indurain win? Can't remember...

He won San Sebastian in 1990 ok not a monument as such but still a decent win, Lemond and LA won the worlds so i suppose that counts as major one dayer.

this really makes you realise how bloody good Eddy, Hinault and Coppi were.

Yep top three no doubt i suppose a rider like those three is a thing of the past

Maybe not, Cancellara anyone? Wasn't he being touted as a Tour winner last year by Sean Kelly.

Do you really think Cancellara can be compared to those three in terms of ability to win on various terrains ?

afx237vi

Never mind winning a one day race, he never does them full stop. Last year he didn't start a single one.

But as Kléber says, if Andy Schleck can win Liege, I see no reason why Contador can't too.

The Prodigy

MG - Like I said, Sean Kelly was tipping him for the Tour win, so why not?

I haven't said I agree or disagree with it, you clearly disagree so what do you know that Mr Kelly doesn't?

calvjones

Fab will never win the Tour. Period. If he had it in him, he would have won a stage race with a proper hill in it at some point by now (and don't give me TdS). Great TT and Classics rider. Wouldn't stay with Coppi or Merckx beyond putting the first foot out of bed on the day of the first mountain stage.

Kelly's just messin wid yo head!

Jez mon

IF Fab was given a tour with plenty of TTing in it with no really difficult mountains... then perhaps he could get in the top ten...

frenchfighter

He has said a few times that he very much wants to win a Classic or two - he mentioned the Ardennes which makes sense.

When he has won enough GTs he can concentrate on the classics and I think he could win a whole bunch. One of his qualities is being the freshest climber when arriving at the last climb - this will prove to be of use in the Classics which are pretty long.

FJS

It's part of Spanish cycling culture - a focus on stage racing. Delgado or Ocana also didn't win a single classic. Indurain won San Sebastian, but that's a pretty meagre one-day record too. And Indurain was from Navarra, and Victor or Gabriel correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a bit more of a one-day scene in the Basque Country/Navarra.

Of course he could win a load if he set his mind to it; LBL or Lombardia of course, but with his TT-ing power why not San Remo or Paris-Tours?

But it's just not on his mind, or those of his supporters or the Spanish media. It's a pity his transfer to Quick Step didn't materialize....

calvjones

I suspect his TTing wouldn't be of much use in M-SR or P-T; he's quick over short distances, or where there are hills, but he's not going to stay away from a bunch like Coppi could over 50K or like Fab/Gilbert have done recently. I think stage racing TTing is very different from TTing when everyone arrives fresh.

PS FF - no offence, but having a big pic as your sig is a bit annoying as it has to be loaded and scrolled past every time a thread is read - very annoying when you're on a 2G iPhone....

pedro118118

He certainly has the ability to win one of the hilly classics. Problem is, he seems to be focussing his peaks of form for the Grand Tours. The obvious choices would be Fleche, Amstel, Liege and Lombardy - all of which he could be competitive in if he chose to be. He's a stage racer though, so is under extreme sponsor/team pressure to perform at the Tour and/or Vuelta. And perhaps the Worlds, although last year's course in Mendrisio would've been ideal for him, but he didn't seem interested.

blazing_saddles

I'm surprised that no one, until Pedro, mentioned "the Arrow", or do we not consider it a major one dayer?
Get him to the foot of the Muy, in the lead bunch and who'd bet against him?

iainf72

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I'm surprised that no one, until Pedro, mentioned "the Arrow", or do we not consider it a major one dayer?
Get him to the foot of the Muy, in the lead bunch and who'd bet against him?

*Cough* First reply *cough*

calvjones

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I'm surprised that no one, until Pedro, mentioned "the Arrow", or do we not consider it a major one dayer?
Get him to the foot of the Muy, in the lead bunch and who'd bet against him?

I would, if Bettini or Rebellin were racing. The current crop? He'd have a lot more of a chance.

pomtarr

Amstel Curacao Gold anyone? He's won that twice... :roll:

FJS

calvjones wrote:

I suspect his TTing wouldn't be of much use in M-SR or P-T; he's quick over short distances, or where there are hills, but he's not going to stay away from a bunch like Coppi could over 50K or like Fab/Gilbert have done recently. I think stage racing TTing is very different from TTing when everyone arrives fresh.

stay away for 50k, no; but a Fabian-like short burst? He wins proloigues. Did you see him jump solo from one echelon to the next in Paris-Nice last year? I don't see why he wouldn't be physically capable. Mentally and tactically is another thing.

teagar

Winning classics is still about taking risks and having a very fast eye for what's happening on the road.

GT wins, especially bruyneel style wins, are coming from riders and teams who have minimised all variables and just let the superior physical talent win it, with a blast up the final mountain or a blast down the TT course. They're too long and too hard to afford wasting an effort on a speculative chance. Surely all that sitting in the Bunch all day every day and then smashing it up a mountain where tactics are pretty limited anyway eventually dulls the riders' reading of the race?

S'why I think Lance didn't win more 1 dayers pre-cancer. He clearly had one of the best one-day motors in the game, but often got rinsed by cannier riders.

Contador's out of practice with one day races, and he'll be focussed on the Tour for too long to get that sharpness.

Isn't there also a factor that training to do 200km day after day is quite different to doing 260km in one sitting? Something Hushovd seems to have struggled with in the past?

calvjones

Not denying he's quick, but I think only Fab and Gilbert (maybe Boonen?) have the ability/nous to jump away from the peloton in this way.

The fact Fab did it (albeit from a small group) at MSR, after telling everyone he would is amazing.

Anyhow, let's see him start a one-dayer (apart from the Worlds of course) first!