XC racing training tips and ideas ?

weeksy59

Right lads,

I'm doing some more XC racing this year and looking to finish a bit higher up the field.

For the first race i've entered 'fun' class to get 1 lap less and try against hopefully a few less superstars.

My training is 5 days a week in the gym and 1 day out riding over the winter. Changing to 3-4 nights/days out in the summer.

Weight is now better, as is my MTB technique i think.

So i need ideas on training specifically for XC and 1 hour racing time.

I was thinking of spinnging and interval training on both running and rowing. What sort of intervals though is the question.
Rowing i usually do 500m sprints (<1mins 50) and then 1 mins rest. Repeat x 10.
Running i've not really done interval stuff so looking for some ideas on it really.
Spinning sadly we don't have any classes in the gym any more so will be sort of doing it based upon what i've done in previous classes etc.

So any other ideas and tips lads ?

robertpb

List down your weak points and train them out first.

weeksy59

Hmmmm pretty tough to say on any given day.

My biggest weak point was skill, which over the last 12 months i've improved lots.

Next is my downhill/speed. Which is weak. Too much braking and too little balls.

whyamihere

You can't improve that in the gym.

Less gym work, more riding your bike. Nothing is a substitute for riding your bike.

ride_whenever

How old are you? When are your events? How seriously do you want to take it.

A bit more info is needed really.

Oh and avoid the rowing machine unless you know what you're doing or you'll open yourself up to a whole world of pain and injury.

weeksy59

ride_whenever wrote:

How old are you? When are your events? How seriously do you want to take it.

A bit more info is needed really.

Oh and avoid the rowing machine unless you know what you're doing or you'll open yourself up to a whole world of pain and injury.

38.

I've been training regularly in gym for last 8 years. Although only now am i getting to normal weights of 14st 0.

My goal is top 50%. I did an Open class last year and finished in the bottom 10%. Lap 3 was a killer, although lap 1 and 2 were not exactly a walk in the park. didn't help that i lost my water about 5 mins into race and didn't know. (now have a camel back). Technique on some of the climbs and descents killed me off that time as i really struggled on terrain that was alien to me. Now i'm an Afan regulalr and Swinley regular the terrain will concern me a lot less.

Me and the rowing machine are friends. I regularly compete in the concept II challenges and am in the top 25% of competitors.

More bike time is easier said than done. I have a job and a small child which means saddle time is tricky to come by. We have a gym in the office which means i can do an hour each day in there without eating into my other duties in life.

robertpb

weeksy59 wrote:

Hmmmm pretty tough to say on any given day.

My biggest weak point was skill, which over the last 12 months i've improved lots.

Next is my downhill/speed. Which is weak. Too much braking and too little balls.

Brake down "too little balls" is it need more skills to get out of trouble, confidence in the bike/tyres to get me out of trouble or I have to go to work tomorrow to keep a roof over the families head.

If it's the last, that's a hard one. But if you can't go downhill faster then you have to go uphill faster, on the bike a lot more time is spent going uphill than downhill.

For going uphill you need legs and lungs, train your lungs more by exercising them when you're sitting around. I do it when walking and sitting in front of the computer, deep breaths to lung capacity then blow out through pursed lips.

Do you train with a hart monitor?

It helps a lot to define your training

weeksy59

A vast percentage of my training is gym based so yeah i'm activly monitoring heart rate. Usually sitting at 150-155bpm for an hour session. Minor peaks and troughs in there though.

I think the lack of balls is simply lack of skill/knowledge. I don't dwell on things like the wife and boy, just what i feel my 'limit' of control is at.

LOL you work in an office on your own ?

turnerjohn

more miles are the answer am affraid !
Gym works good but you can't suppiment the bike.
Have you tried spin classes? (if the gym does them that is !)
At the moment (winter) you need to work on base miles....say at least 2hrs at 150 bpm or a little under constant...every weekend to build up a good base line.
The more the summer (if we ever get one) enters, you need to up intensity of the rides.
Some pyramid training and alike.
If times hard to come by (lets face it we are all busy with work) a turbo-trainer can do wonders for your fitness (tho your sanity will winder off lol)
Doing intervals through the week, with fast stendy rides at the weekends.
Closer to race day, back off the training to let the body recover, no training 2days before works for me.
Oh and increase by small steps or your body will just give up on you !

weeksy59

Weekend stuff is usually 3-4 hours for one of the days.

Turbo trainer, no space i'm afraid for that.

Spin classes not available in gym but spin bikes are.

Don't you lads find it tough to get a consistent bpm on a XC ride though ? with the ups and downs obviously your heart is doing simillar ups and downs.

turnerjohn

ah ha thats were a road bike comes in :-).
Am really a xc'er at heart but love road riding. Its far far better for fitness, and yes much easier to gauge. You may find it easier to fit in a fast hour on the road then mtb ?
When you say 3 to 4 hrs, is that constant actual riding? or including stops etc.?
ie; XC racing you dont stop to admire the view 8) !

Shame no room for a turbo, try to use the spin bikes at the gym (if their proper spin bike?) and do some turbo sessions. That will def improve your speed.
When racing XC you need your heart-rate right up there close to your max aerobic capacity.
XC races are short (compared to road anyways) so max effort over that time is what your looking for.

weeksy59

Agree with all your points.

Well it's constant riding for my mate... riding with stops for me LOL. He's not quite up to my speed at the moment, but then again i'm giving him over 10 years in age.

Turbo sessions ? elaborate. Yup proper spin bikes, we used to have classes but a lack of interest canned them.

Luckily where i live i can fit in a quick hour MTB stuff as the downs and ridgeway are only 200m from my front door, a couple of good little trails up to them simulate a decent XC hill.

Road stuff doesn't do it for me i'm afraid. Even though the roads are exceptionally quiet, it's just dull i find.

Yeah the problem when i did my 1st (and only) XC race at times was getting the heart high and pinned for such a long time. The course was tough beyond words and because you're trying to hold your pace high, you never actually get a rest as such.

clwydian_rider92

I was reading somewhere that short 'sprint' bike rides whenever you can are better than long casual ones. This is the case in winter riding when your'e fighting against the weather and light. I think that mileage on the bike is better than the gym and try doing basic gym work at home e.g. small weights, press ups sit ups etc. Saying that if you can't go riding in winter, gyms better than nothing isn;t it.

weeksy59

Started on the spinning bike today... followed by a bit of interval sprinting/jogging....

Phew.... tough session.

Surf-Matt

Ride more and do some off road running.

Both will work wonders.

turnerjohn

short sprints are all well and good but dont give you the base fitness that you need....more time in the saddle is whats needed.
Dont go crazy on the weights as this will increase body mass ie; weight....more muscle dont make you faster !...only have to look at the pro's to see that.
Good going on the spin bike / running, sounds like your off to a good start.
Maybe worth seeing if anyone at the gym can do a cycling specific plan for you (soem gyms will others wont).
Nice one on having the downs on your doorstep (i have 45mins motorway drive to get to anywhere decent).
I used to find road riding boring, but with greater fitness (and a road bike makes a huge difference) its fantastic for speed and maintaining fitness....and has helped by MTBing no end

weeksy59

Saddle time will be excellent this week. I'm WFH so will get out Weds, Thurs,Fri and Sat for a ride. Although only 1 hour for Wed,Thu,Fri and a long one on Sat.

Gym is at work and whilst fullly equipped is manned by muppets.

cycleactive

Just having a skim round the forums and saw your message. I write the skills Q&A for this site, for mountain bikers, and head up the coaching team at CycleActive. From what you've said you need to think separately about physiological training needs (getting fitter to get faster) and technical training needs (getting more skillful to go faster).

Some riders simply work on both together - basically, getting out and riding. Some spend a lot of time on the road bike to get controlled fitness development, and then their mtb riding sessions are a mixture of enjoyment and targetted skills development.

If it's downhill speed you want then check out some of the features in the fitness section, especially the one from 2 years ago on vision and how to train it to make you faster, and other stuff on footwork and braking. We've worked with a lot of riders, right up to the Olympic Talent Team, and lots of our training tips on this site come from research specifically targetted at making people very fast and very smooth when descending on all types of terrain. If you have a specific question or concern then email me on chris@cycleactive.co.uk and we can use it as part of a future Q&A minifeature.

Hope this helps,
Chris Ford

weeksy59

MAny thanks Chris,

The answer to them questions is, until i do the race on the 7th, i don't really know.

The other Gorrick race i did the DH side of things wasnt' really that important. i would have only lost 30 seconds a lap on the 2-3 sections.

The XC, tight trees, switchbacks etc, the XC and the climbs i felt i lost a greater percentage of the time overall.

So i think as much as my desire to improve on the downhills is all well and good, the potential for improvement in finishing position is a lot lower than the potential if i improve my XC/climbing.

When out on the local tracks i do try and focus my training specificially for climbing and maintaining, but it's sort of a catch 22, unless i time myself on a specific route time and time again how will i know if i'm improving, i mean even if 4 weeks from now i'm going 3 mins quicker on a 20 mins lap, i will still be just as knackered as i am now trying harder.

The worry is... If i start doing that, then MTB goes from being a pleasure, into a defined concentration and then the fun becomes quickly drained out of it.

i've had this before with motorbikes and trackdays then venturing into racing... the effort and drive became all encompasing and i stopped enjoying riding motorbikes. It was more of a chore.

Hmmmmm

VWsurfbum

weeksy59 wrote:

The worry is... If i start doing that, then MTB goes from being a pleasure, into a defined concentration and then the fun becomes quickly drained out of it.

From reading this thread, you and i seem to be very simular, i unfortunatly dont have the luxury of a gym at work though.
i am currently getting myself ready for this years "fun" race series, did my first one last year and enjoyed it but the more i trained the more it took the fun out of it :?
but on another note i would like to be further up the leader board

njee20

Going back to the turbo point... can you not do that in the evening sometimes? In your position I'd say there is no substitute for riding.

Rowing's all well and good, but you're potentially building a lot of muscle which is useless, if not detrimental for cycling. If you really can't get on the bike any more then the spin bikes are good, but try and get some advice on proper sessions rather than just riding for the sake of it, as you're unlikely to make the most of the time you have.

weeksy59

njee20 wrote:

Going back to the turbo point... can you not do that in the evening sometimes? In your position I'd say there is no substitute for riding.

Rowing's all well and good, but you're potentially building a lot of muscle which is useless, if not detrimental for cycling. If you really can't get on the bike any more then the spin bikes are good, but try and get some advice on proper sessions rather than just riding for the sake of it, as you're unlikely to make the most of the time you have.

Small house. If i stick my bike in the kitchen the wife will stab me.

I've done plenty of spinning classes and have Spinning MP3's so should be ok with the format.