BOOOOOMM!!

_Ferret_

Isn't there some small print in the owners manual about how the bike is meant to be used?
Would be interesting to check.

BTW - collintrav - loving the comments, you still bring a smile to my face everytime I get to read some of your most insightful words...

supersonic

Slamdunkin wrote:

Judging by the colour of the frame it's a 2008 bike, so less than 2 years old, it maybe out of warranty but you are still covered in law by the statute of limitations,

It's marketed as a bike that can handle off road use. the frame didn't bend or buckle...it snapped straight through, right at the edge of the welding, that's not right. Did the tyre blow out?....Did the wheel buckle?...The frame should be stronger than the tyre or wheel, so a small claims court case maybe in order...bet they'd settle out of court once they receive the papers. It's not worth them paying to have a defence drawn up and then be represented over a frame worth a few hundred quid.

Is this true? While it does appear there was a manufacturing fault, the warranty only lasts a finite time - which covers faults like this. Otherwise we'd all be claiming for our 80s wrecks! I thought the statute of limitations is a period where you can bring a claim to court after discovering a fault (upto 6 years in England) which is different from how long goods can be expected to 'reasonably' last (which is usually, but not always the guarantee).

Also the tyre not blowing out and wheel buckling isn't really an indicator of frame weakness - a well built wheel can be very very strong.

Slamdunkin

"the statute of limitations is a period where you can bring a claim to court after discovering a fault (upto 6 years in England)"

You are correct, but it also has a different interpretation when used in conjunction with the sale of goods act.

n.battison

So all in all, if I write them a letter telling them the situation, what are the chances of me getting a new frame?

Bear in mind I did buy the bike second hand off someone on here, would this affect the situation at all? I understand I do not have a warranty etc... but this should not be happening to a bike like this so surely they should do something about it?

bails87

Well that changes everything. you have absolutely no warranty. They MAY be nice and do something, but it's unlikely.

Torres

If you don't ask you don't get, so it might be worth dropping them an e-mail
But i don't think they have any obligation to do anything, you never know though.

supersonic

Slamdunkin wrote:

"the statute of limitations is a period where you can bring a claim to court after discovering a fault (upto 6 years in England)"

You are correct, but it also has a different interpretation when used in conjunction with the sale of goods act.

You'll have to expain how this works lol, I am not quite with you! What time limits are we talking? It seems to imply warranties are pretty useless, or certainly misleading if you can claim outside the period offered.

Slamdunkin

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended makes the SELLER legally responsible for the quality of the goods. NOT the manufacturer.

Goods must be

(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,

(b) appearance and finish,

(c) freedom from minor defects,

(d) safety, and

(e) durability.


Sale of Goods Act re. statute of limitations – i.e. if a fault in a product due to faulty materials or manufacturing shows itself within a 6 year period from purchase (providing it is reasonable for the item to last that long) a claim for a refund against the retailer could be made

Depending on the goods, it can last up to SIX years (Statute of Limitations) although as time goes by, you could reasonably only expect a repair rather than replacement on a TV for example and something like an oil filter would not be covered upto the six year period.

Unfortunately no of this will help OP as he has bought it second hand and hasn't entered into a contract with the retailer himself.

supersonic

That is the thing, they are not always reasonably expected to last that long.

I am pretty sure statute of limitations and reasonable time are two different things.

Slamdunkin

It's up to six years, so it's reasonable to expect a bike of this quality and price to last say 3-4 years and not two.

Slamdunkin

I am pretty sure statute of limitations and reasonable time are two different things.

Not when used in contract law and the SOGA. When you buy something the retailer must sell you goods fit for purpose to uphold his part of the contract. so you have upto six years from purchase to make your complaint/claim....I should add that after six months the onus is on the buyer to prove the defect was due to substandard manufacturing or materials.

supersonic

Slamdunkin wrote:

It's up to six years, so it's reasonable to expect a bike of this quality and price to last say 3-4 years and not two.

This is the grey area. Some race components I would say are only expected to last a year at most, and price isn't always an indicator of lifespan.

alfablue

Bottom line is that you will have a hell of a job pursuing a legalistic approach successfully, especially with the change of ownership, so best to appeal to the good will of the manufacturer. Even if they don't give you a new frame they may have a favourable crash replacement policy.

delcol

if you got it second hand chances are you wont get anything,, if you have the receipt from when the bike was purchased it could help...

it would depend on the importer contact them to see what they say, you might get a halfprice frame deal or something out of them....

a mate of mine paul got a good discount off spesh after his second hand bighit frame broke... all you can do is contact them...

chrisga

Urr same thing happened to me early last year....



I too bought the bike second hand (but from a specialized dealer). It was a fiar bit older than people are assuming the OP's Norco is/was but i contacted Specialized nevertheless. I had a rather rude email in reply telling me where to go basically. Annoying thing is because of that reply I really really wanted to ditch specialized as a brand but the deal I got on the enduro was too good to pass on.....

The breaks are in exactly the same place, and its pretty obvious why they break there. The forces from everytime you touch the rear break are transferred directly to the seat stay through the front of the caliper mount, bending the stay slightly as someone mentioned earlier. I'd say given enough use pretty much every frame with ths style of disc brake mount will brake, not through misuse or due to crappy materials ut just through design. Now some bikes may last 200 years before tha happens, others 2. Some manufacturers may be aware and want to do something if frames start breaking early, perhaps a product recall but if they are lasting 8 years as mine did, and the warranty comprehensively excludes seat stays then hey, they are getting to sell new bikes because of it so they arent really likely to do much about it are they?

Ska!

I must say that I'm always surprised at how quickly people jump on the "SUE-THE-HELL-OUT-OF-THE-BASTARDS!!!" wagon. You can almost hear the collective "YEAH!!!!!!" and see the fists flying into the air from the masses who feel the same way. What gives with that? Sheesh........

Bikes, along with everything else we purchase in the world, fail from time to time. In my opinion, warrantees are warrantees and they last as long as the manufacturer deems appropriate. Initially we purchase the bikes for different reasons but warrantees are rarely a deciding factor - it helps - but unless it is a terrible warrantee it won't usually break a deal. If for some reason a bike fails in less time than the purchaser "expects" it to last (even if it's well after a warrantee has expired) many feel that the manufacturer still owe them something when they absolutely do not. In reality, if the warrantee is up......too bad. Especially (and unfortunately sometimes) if the bike is purchased second hand.

Having said that, many manufacturers will still give you a hand whether it be in the form of a new frame, or rear triangle, or a slamming deal on your next purchase. It is most often the largest of manufacturers that will tell you to pound salt and the smaller companies that will lend the biggest hand. There are exceptions to the rule of course. If it is a defect in the frame that their engineers are aware of, there will be no hesitation (even if you're the tenth owner of that frame) in sending you a new one. If it is a failure and they agree with you (after receiving your frame for inspection) they will most often help you in some way.

Here are just a couple of examples that have happened among some riding friends of mine. The first occurred while riding a somewhat technical trail in our area. A riding buddy heard something strange and yelled ahead for us to hold up as he needed to find out why his bike was now handling oddly. Turns out the frame had snapped where the chainstay meets the pivot body just beyond the weld near the bottom bracket. It was un-ridable. The frame (made by Kona) was about 5 years old and heavily used. He was also the second owner of the frame. He thought they would laugh at him but he contacted them anyway. What the hell? He had nothing to loose. They asked that he send the frame in for inspection. It was a few weeks later that he received his frame back with a new rear triangle and fully refurbished bushings/bearings etc. He's a Kona guy for life now. I've never owned a Kona but they moved up a notch in my book after that.

Another friend crashed a full carbon Trek frame during a race. He slid out and side-swiped a young tree and it destroyed the seatstay (the bike was 2 weeks old). He lied and said it broke on its own - "Trek and the shop should cover it" We all knew that he was being unreasonable as these are the risks we take in this sport. He felt that Trek should just up and send him a new one but, of course, they wanted to inspect it (who can blame them). Once the frame arrived, it didn't take long for them to realize what had really happened. Trek replied that they were not going to supply a new frame but would sell him another one at cost. Personally I thought that was a very good gesture on their part (as they didn't owe him squat) but my friend thought it was ridiculous. He went through the whole "Trek sucks.......the bike shop sucks......the guys working there suck.......and.......bla bla bla". It was annoying as hell. Trek was surprisingly good IMHO.

In a nutshell, be honest with the manufacturer and don't B.S. them. They may or may not cover it in your case (because you're the second owner) but most will do what they can for you - trust me. Don't waste your time even thinking of suing them for Christ's sake. That's rediculous.

I love the stories we get here in Canada of folks suing those in charge of trails. We had one trail completely close because some kid wiped out on a downhill run and the parents went nuts because he got a concussion. Another closure we heard of was because of a guy riding (no helmet) wiped out on a root somewhere along the trail. He felt it should have been marked with a sign. LOL Can you imagine how many signs there would be? Saddest part was that he won his stupid case...........

Unless you've got some really good reason - suing is for freaking morons or those who want something for nothing.

turnerjohn

Ska! wrote:

I must say that I'm always surprised at how quickly people jump on the "SUE-THE-HELL-OUT-OF-THE-BASTARDS!!!" wagon. You can almost hear the collective "YEAH!!!!!!" and see the fists flying into the air from the masses who feel the same way. What gives with that? Sheesh........

Bikes, along with everything else we purchase in the world, fail from time to time. In my opinion, warrantees are warrantees and they last as long as the manufacturer deems appropriate. Initially we purchase the bikes for different reasons but warrantees are rarely a deciding factor - it helps - but unless it is a terrible warrantee it won't usually break a deal. If for some reason a bike fails in less time than the purchaser "expects" it to last (even if it's well after a warrantee has expired) many feel that the manufacturer still owe them something when they absolutely do not. In reality, if the warrantee is up......too bad. Especially (and unfortunately sometimes) if the bike is purchased second hand.

Having said that, many manufacturers will still give you a hand whether it be in the form of a new frame, or rear triangle, or a slamming deal on your next purchase. It is most often the largest of manufacturers that will tell you to pound salt and the smaller companies that will lend the biggest hand. There are exceptions to the rule of course. If it is a defect in the frame that their engineers are aware of, there will be no hesitation (even if you're the tenth owner of that frame) in sending you a new one. If it is a failure and they agree with you (after receiving your frame for inspection) they will most often help you in some way.

Here are just a couple of examples that have happened among some riding friends of mine. The first occurred while riding a somewhat technical trail in our area. A riding buddy heard something strange and yelled ahead for us to hold up as he needed to find out why his bike was now handling oddly. Turns out the frame had snapped where the chainstay meets the pivot body just beyond the weld near the bottom bracket. It was un-ridable. The frame (made by Kona) was about 5 years old and heavily used. He was also the second owner of the frame. He thought they would laugh at him but he contacted them anyway. What the hell? He had nothing to loose. They asked that he send the frame in for inspection. It was a few weeks later that he received his frame back with a new rear triangle and fully refurbished bushings/bearings etc. He's a Kona guy for life now. I've never owned a Kona but they moved up a notch in my book after that.

Another friend crashed a full carbon Trek frame during a race. He slid out and side-swiped a young tree and it destroyed the seatstay (the bike was 2 weeks old). He lied and said it broke on its own - "Trek and the shop should cover it" We all knew that he was being unreasonable as these are the risks we take in this sport. He felt that Trek should just up and send him a new one but, of course, they wanted to inspect it (who can blame them). Once the frame arrived, it didn't take long for them to realize what had really happened. Trek replied that they were not going to supply a new frame but would sell him another one at cost. Personally I thought that was a very good gesture on their part (as they didn't owe him squat) but my friend thought it was ridiculous. He went through the whole "Trek sucks.......the bike shop sucks......the guys working there suck.......and.......bla bla bla". It was annoying as hell. Trek was surprisingly good IMHO.

In a nutshell, be honest with the manufacturer and don't B.S. them. They may or may not cover it in your case but most will do what they can for you - trust me. Don't waste your time even thinking of suing them for Christ's sake. That's rediculous.

I love the stories we get here in Canada of folks suing those in charge of trails. We had one trail completely close because some kid wiped out on a downhill run and the parents went nuts because he got a concussion. Another closure we heard of was because of a guy riding (no helmet) wiped out on a root somewhere along the trail. He felt it should have been marked with a sign. LOL Can you imagine how many signs there would be? Saddest part was that he won his stupid case...........

Unless you've got some really good reason - suing is for freaking morons or those who want something for nothing.

+1 !
TBH its a 2year old second hand frame, thats been used for jumping...recon its done pretty well all things considered !

colintrav

^^

A recognised fault .. due to bad frame design ...further caused by stress put on by the position of rear brake

n.battison

turnerjohn wrote:

Ska! wrote:

I must say that I'm always surprised at how quickly people jump on the "SUE-THE-HELL-OUT-OF-THE-BASTARDS!!!" wagon. You can almost hear the collective "YEAH!!!!!!" and see the fists flying into the air from the masses who feel the same way. What gives with that? Sheesh........

Bikes, along with everything else we purchase in the world, fail from time to time. In my opinion, warrantees are warrantees and they last as long as the manufacturer deems appropriate. Initially we purchase the bikes for different reasons but warrantees are rarely a deciding factor - it helps - but unless it is a terrible warrantee it won't usually break a deal. If for some reason a bike fails in less time than the purchaser "expects" it to last (even if it's well after a warrantee has expired) many feel that the manufacturer still owe them something when they absolutely do not. In reality, if the warrantee is up......too bad. Especially (and unfortunately sometimes) if the bike is purchased second hand.



Having said that, many manufacturers will still give you a hand whether it be in the form of a new frame, or rear triangle, or a slamming deal on your next purchase. It is most often the largest of manufacturers that will tell you to pound salt and the smaller companies that will lend the biggest hand. There are exceptions to the rule of course. If it is a defect in the frame that their engineers are aware of, there will be no hesitation (even if you're the tenth owner of that frame) in sending you a new one. If it is a failure and they agree with you (after receiving your frame for inspection) they will most often help you in some way.

Here are just a couple of examples that have happened among some riding friends of mine. The first occurred while riding a somewhat technical trail in our area. A riding buddy heard something strange and yelled ahead for us to hold up as he needed to find out why his bike was now handling oddly. Turns out the frame had snapped where the chainstay meets the pivot body just beyond the weld near the bottom bracket. It was un-ridable. The frame (made by Kona) was about 5 years old and heavily used. He was also the second owner of the frame. He thought they would laugh at him but he contacted them anyway. What the hell? He had nothing to loose. They asked that he send the frame in for inspection. It was a few weeks later that he received his frame back with a new rear triangle and fully refurbished bushings/bearings etc. He's a Kona guy for life now. I've never owned a Kona but they moved up a notch in my book after that.

Another friend crashed a full carbon Trek frame during a race. He slid out and side-swiped a young tree and it destroyed the seatstay (the bike was 2 weeks old). He lied and said it broke on its own - "Trek and the shop should cover it" We all knew that he was being unreasonable as these are the risks we take in this sport. He felt that Trek should just up and send him a new one but, of course, they wanted to inspect it (who can blame them). Once the frame arrived, it didn't take long for them to realize what had really happened. Trek replied that they were not going to supply a new frame but would sell him another one at cost. Personally I thought that was a very good gesture on their part (as they didn't owe him squat) but my friend thought it was ridiculous. He went through the whole "Trek sucks.......the bike shop sucks......the guys working there suck.......and.......bla bla bla". It was annoying as hell. Trek was surprisingly good IMHO.

In a nutshell, be honest with the manufacturer and don't B.S. them. They may or may not cover it in your case but most will do what they can for you - trust me. Don't waste your time even thinking of suing them for Christ's sake. That's rediculous.

I love the stories we get here in Canada of folks suing those in charge of trails. We had one trail completely close because some kid wiped out on a downhill run and the parents went nuts because he got a concussion. Another closure we heard of was because of a guy riding (no helmet) wiped out on a root somewhere along the trail. He felt it should have been marked with a sign. LOL Can you imagine how many signs there would be? Saddest part was that he won his stupid case...........

Unless you've got some really good reason - suing is for freaking morons or those who want something for nothing.

+1 !
TBH its a 2year old second hand frame, thats been used for jumping...recon its done pretty well all things considered !

I could understand if this was a light weight XC race frame but even on the Norco website it used to state that this bike is suitable for light free-ride. The biggest stuff i do on this bike is 2-3ft drops and i would not consider this light free-ride.

I am going to try and find a way of contacting Norco and telling them about my frame but the only contact details i can find are details of the head offices in Canda, and i cant find any email addresses for the UK.

Torres

I don' think there will be any contact info for the uk, they probably don't have any offices over here as the products willbe imported by a third party.

So it might be worth finding out who the importer is, or just e-mail Canada...

Ska!

n.battison wrote:

turnerjohn wrote:

Ska! wrote:

I must say that I'm always surprised at how quickly people jump on the "SUE-THE-HELL-OUT-OF-THE-BASTARDS!!!" wagon. You can almost hear the collective "YEAH!!!!!!" and see the fists flying into the air from the masses who feel the same way. What gives with that? Sheesh........

Bikes, along with everything else we purchase in the world, fail from time to time. In my opinion, warrantees are warrantees and they last as long as the manufacturer deems appropriate. Initially we purchase the bikes for different reasons but warrantees are rarely a deciding factor - it helps - but unless it is a terrible warrantee it won't usually break a deal. If for some reason a bike fails in less time than the purchaser "expects" it to last (even if it's well after a warrantee has expired) many feel that the manufacturer still owe them something when they absolutely do not. In reality, if the warrantee is up......too bad. Especially (and unfortunately sometimes) if the bike is purchased second hand.



Having said that, many manufacturers will still give you a hand whether it be in the form of a new frame, or rear triangle, or a slamming deal on your next purchase. It is most often the largest of manufacturers that will tell you to pound salt and the smaller companies that will lend the biggest hand. There are exceptions to the rule of course. If it is a defect in the frame that their engineers are aware of, there will be no hesitation (even if you're the tenth owner of that frame) in sending you a new one. If it is a failure and they agree with you (after receiving your frame for inspection) they will most often help you in some way.

Here are just a couple of examples that have happened among some riding friends of mine. The first occurred while riding a somewhat technical trail in our area. A riding buddy heard something strange and yelled ahead for us to hold up as he needed to find out why his bike was now handling oddly. Turns out the frame had snapped where the chainstay meets the pivot body just beyond the weld near the bottom bracket. It was un-ridable. The frame (made by Kona) was about 5 years old and heavily used. He was also the second owner of the frame. He thought they would laugh at him but he contacted them anyway. What the hell? He had nothing to loose. They asked that he send the frame in for inspection. It was a few weeks later that he received his frame back with a new rear triangle and fully refurbished bushings/bearings etc. He's a Kona guy for life now. I've never owned a Kona but they moved up a notch in my book after that.

Another friend crashed a full carbon Trek frame during a race. He slid out and side-swiped a young tree and it destroyed the seatstay (the bike was 2 weeks old). He lied and said it broke on its own - "Trek and the shop should cover it" We all knew that he was being unreasonable as these are the risks we take in this sport. He felt that Trek should just up and send him a new one but, of course, they wanted to inspect it (who can blame them). Once the frame arrived, it didn't take long for them to realize what had really happened. Trek replied that they were not going to supply a new frame but would sell him another one at cost. Personally I thought that was a very good gesture on their part (as they didn't owe him squat) but my friend thought it was ridiculous. He went through the whole "Trek sucks.......the bike shop sucks......the guys working there suck.......and.......bla bla bla". It was annoying as hell. Trek was surprisingly good IMHO.

In a nutshell, be honest with the manufacturer and don't B.S. them. They may or may not cover it in your case but most will do what they can for you - trust me. Don't waste your time even thinking of suing them for Christ's sake. That's rediculous.

I love the stories we get here in Canada of folks suing those in charge of trails. We had one trail completely close because some kid wiped out on a downhill run and the parents went nuts because he got a concussion. Another closure we heard of was because of a guy riding (no helmet) wiped out on a root somewhere along the trail. He felt it should have been marked with a sign. LOL Can you imagine how many signs there would be? Saddest part was that he won his stupid case...........

Unless you've got some really good reason - suing is for freaking morons or those who want something for nothing.

+1 !
TBH its a 2year old second hand frame, thats been used for jumping...recon its done pretty well all things considered !

I could understand if this was a light weight XC race frame but even on the Norco website it used to state that this bike is suitable for light free-ride. The biggest stuff i do on this bike is 2-3ft drops and i would not consider this light free-ride.

I am going to try and find a way of contacting Norco and telling them about my frame but the only contact details i can find are details of the head offices in Canda, and i cant find any email addresses for the UK.

The type of frame doesn't matter at all; please don't take that from my post. XC, AM, FR, DJ etc. frames all have their respective warrantees based on what they are expected to endure. If you back over it with your car than no, they won't cover it. If you ride it as it was intended (or even a little harder) than, most times, they will cover it.

Try not to get defensive right from the get go as I sense from the comment "I could understand if this was a light weight XC race frame but even on the Norco website it used to state that this bike is suitable for light free-ride........." It doesn't matter that it is a beefy frame. ALL FRAMES HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF FAILURE and manufactures know that. Believe me, they've seen it all. The problem is, owners should understand this too. It sucks when it happens but oh well, eh? My buddy's Kona I mentioned was no XC rig. Remember, you are the second owner so technically they don't "owe" you anything - no matter what - read the fine print. It is a shame. But, again, my guess is, Norco will agree with you in some way and help you with something. Whether that something is a new replacement frame or a new frame at cost remains to be seen.

Contact them by e-mail and request a phone number so you can call them to discuss your situation and find out who exactly you need to contact (and if it's worth it at all). Don't be nasty 'cause this can go either way. If you start off with "This is no light weight XC race frame..........!!" you're as good as sunk brother.

It may help to e-mail some pics and the frame serial number along with your initial contact e-mail to get the ball rolling as well. They may find that your frame was part of a bad run and just ask for your address and be done with it - you never know. Just remember to keep your tone in check.

Peace,
Good luck.