Deep rim clinchers wheelsets..

rokkala

Hello! Just found out i'm going to have a bit of extra cash at start of next year, so i'm set on getting myself some nice deep rim carbon wheels and wanted some advice.

Just want to stick to clinchers as i'm only planning on using the wheels for sportives, time trials and generally just riding for fun. So the brief is wheels that are: Clincher, deep rim, pretty bombproof/durable,campag compatible and not ridiculously heavy. Also, wouldn't want wheels that have no manufactuer warranty option. Oh, and they have to look good Very Happy

Been having a good look about, and so far i'm veering towards the Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLRs, 52mm rim, apparently pretty bombproof and durable, seem quite light in comparison to a lot of other similar wheels with a claimed weight of 1595g. Have found this with the mp3 protection for £1067.

So, opening it up to the floor, does this sound like a good option, what else is really worth considering?

Other wheels i have on the shortlist are:

Zipp 404 wheelset, or 404/808 combo(is this worth the £200+ extra?)
CITEC 6000 CX Carbon Wheelset (No idea on quality of these?)
HED Jet 5/6/9s
Bontrager Aeolus 5 ACCs/5/6.5s
Corima Aero Plus
FFWD F4 OR F6 - quite like the look of these but not seen reviews for how good/bad they are. Confusing me further, on their website the F4 and F6 have four or five different variations for their clinchers ( http://www.ffwdwheels.com/product.asp?i ... =93&page=6 ).
Anybody able to explain what the real differences are?

Reynolds and EDGE?

I weigh about 11 and a half stone, these wheels will be replacing the Sciroccos i have on good bike, which will be going onto new full mudguard bike.

For my stated purposes, should i forgot about wheels without an alu braking surface too?

Lot of questions i know Very Happy but thanks for any input/suggestions.

Pokerface

Rokkala wrote:

Zipp 404 wheelset, or 404/808 combo(is this worth the £200+ extra?)

Shop around and you might find that 606's (404 front and 808 rear) for a discount. Me - I paid less for my set than what most people pay for a set of 404's - and they had upgraded hubs.

I use mine for road racing and timetrialling - the 808 in the rear makes it worth having for TT's. You could still use a set of 404's for a TT, but an 808 is better. Mine are clinchers.

Rokkala wrote:

FFWD F4 OR F6 - quite like the look of these but not seen reviews for how good/bad they are. Confusing me further, on their website the F4 and F6 have four or five different variations for their clinchers ( http://www.ffwdwheels.com/product.asp?i ... =93&page=6 ).
Anybody able to explain what the real differences are?

If you read the codes closely, you'll see that the prices are for a front wheel, a rear wheel with Shimano freehub, one with a Campag freehub and a set (front and rear - with either a Shimano or Campag freehub).

rokkala

If you read the codes closely, you'll see that the prices are for a front wheel, a rear wheel with Shimano freehub, one with a Campag freehub and a set (front and rear - with either a Shimano or Campag freehub).

Sorry, should have been clearer in what i was meaning. On the left hand side of the page you will see 4 different versions of the F4, and 5 different versions of the F6. Some variations are just DT Swiss hubs instead of FFWD hubs, but some are 'Control' versions. Only real difference i can see is that the 'Control' wheels have 24/28H pattern and the others have 20/24H.

Is 'control' just a euphemism for' heavy rider wheels'?

Anonymous

Eh? Thought you'd already started a thread on this?

DA Carbon Clinchers, bargains! Much Cheapness!

http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/?fn=produ ... goryId=167

rokkala

NapoleonD wrote:

Eh? Thought you'd already started a thread on this?

DA Carbon Clinchers, bargains! Much Cheapness!

http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/?fn=produ ... goryId=167

I did NapD, but i had started it in the wrong forum! The perils of having lots of tabs open Re-started it in here for sake of tidiness.

Also, forgive my ignorance, those DA clinchers are a very good deal, but i take it they can't be made compatible with campag gear?

Pokerface

Rokkala wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

Eh? Thought you'd already started a thread on this?

DA Carbon Clinchers, bargains! Much Cheapness!

http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/?fn=produ ... goryId=167

I did NapD, but i had started it in the wrong forum! The perils of having lots of tabs open Re-started it in here for sake of tidiness.

Also, forgive my ignorance, those DA clinchers are a very good deal, but i take it they can't be made compatible with campag gear?

You just need a Campag freehub.

Pokerface

Rokkala wrote:

If you read the codes closely, you'll see that the prices are for a front wheel, a rear wheel with Shimano freehub, one with a Campag freehub and a set (front and rear - with either a Shimano or Campag freehub).

Sorry, should have been clearer in what i was meaning. On the left hand side of the page you will see 4 different versions of the F4, and 5 different versions of the F6. Some variations are just DT Swiss hubs instead of FFWD hubs, but some are 'Control' versions. Only real difference i can see is that the 'Control' wheels have 24/28H pattern and the others have 20/24H.

Is 'control' just a euphemism for' heavy rider wheels'?

Yes - different hubs (190 vs 240) and Control is indeed for the plumper rider.

I've spoken with the president of FFWD before and used to own a disc wheel from them. Good quality kit, but not the lightest and for similar money I'd look at other wheels.

Pedal Romper

Spinergy are good but the only have 50mm rims

Bhima

Velocity's "Deep V" wheels are cheap and available in a ridiculous ammount of silly colours.

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes. They're absolutely unbreakable too - my mate is 120kg and has them on his fixie with no problems. Heavy though. You can also get them in any colour you want including custom paint jobs if you're really looking for a blingy bike.

Anonymous

Bhima wrote:

Velocity's "Deep V" wheels are cheap, weigh a freaking ton and are available in ridiculous silly colours.

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes. They're absolutely unbreakable too - my mate is 120kg and has them on his fixie with no problems. Heavy though. You can also get them in any colour you want including custom paint jobs if you're really looking for a kid's bike.

Fixed.

Bhima

Cheers, thanks for "fixing" that NapD. 8)

Yeah, well i'm hardly an expert on "bike bling" (you've seen my bike right? ) but those wheels are completely bombproof and cheap. I don't know how fussy the OP is about aerodynamics and "performance" all that, but if you just want deep rims for the sake of having deep rims/bling (like a few people on here have asked about recently), those are the options without having to pay loadsa cash.

if money is no object, then i'd recommend Campagnolo Bora Ultras. The only wheel i've tested where you can actually feel a dramatic improvement. It's hard to explain what it is, they just make you feel like a cycling God when going above 300W-ish (312W for NapD, of course).

magliaceleste

Bhima wrote:

Cheers, thanks for "fixing" that NapD. 8)
if money is no object, then i'd recommend Campagnolo Bora Ultras. The only wheel i've tested where you can actually feel a dramatic improvement. It's hard to explain what it is, they just make you feel like a cycling God when going above 300W-ish (312W for NapD, of course).

They aren't clinchers though. The OP wanted clinchers.

rabk

Rokkala wrote:

Been having a good look about, and so far i'm veering towards the Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLRs, 52mm rim, apparently pretty bombproof and durable, seem quite light in comparison to a lot of other similar wheels with a claimed weight of 1595g. Have found this with the mp3 protection for £1067.

.

hi

I have the Cosmic Carbone SLRs, fantastic wheels in my opinion (although must admit I have not had much experience of deep section wheels other than a set of Corimas)

They are stiff - noticeably so and not too heavy either, I am pretty impressed by them.

One or two reviews question the aerodynamics - and this is difficult to comment on, but if your ar looking for a deep section clincher, with aluminium rim for braking - you won't go far wrong with these.

Incidentally that is a good deal you have been quoted if it includes the MP3 cover (cover is over £100 for these wheels )

Chip \'oyler

NapoleonD wrote:

Bhima wrote:

Velocity's "Deep V" wheels are cheap, weigh a freaking ton and are available in ridiculous silly colours.

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes. They're absolutely unbreakable too - my mate is 120kg and has them on his fixie with no problems. Heavy though. You can also get them in any colour you want including custom paint jobs if you're really looking for a kid's bike.

Fixed.

Well said

rokkala

Bhima wrote:

Velocity's "Deep V" wheels are cheap and available in a ridiculous ammount of silly colours.

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes. They're absolutely unbreakable too - my mate is 120kg and has them on his fixie with no problems. Heavy though. You can also get them in any colour you want including custom paint jobs if you're really looking for a blingy bike.

Not wanting something aero if its heavy as fook. It's not just going to be for TT's, also for my general riding and sportives.

Rabcp wrote:

hi

I have the Cosmic Carbone SLRs, fantastic wheels in my opinion (although must admit I have not had much experience of deep section wheels other than a set of Corimas)

They are stiff - noticeably so and not too heavy either, I am pretty impressed by them.

One or two reviews question the aerodynamics - and this is difficult to comment on, but if your ar looking for a deep section clincher, with aluminium rim for braking - you won't go far wrong with these.

Incidentally that is a good deal you have been quoted if it includes the MP3 cover (cover is over £100 for these wheels )

I've not seen an actual proper review that questions the aero, just unsubstantiated posts on a few forums saying they are less aero than the SLs.

Have you rode those wheels when wet? Heard water getting into the fairing on the SLs was a problem?

And the £1067 was price including mp3 cover, the wheels themselves i found for just under £1k, the mp3 cover is then 8% of the cost of the wheels!

Anyhoo, shortened the list down to:

Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR
Zipp 404 or 606 wheelset
HED Jet 5 or 6's
Dura Ace 7850 Carbon wheels

Rest either discounted for being bit too heavy or for having a carbon braking rim.

Took a look at the spinergys but saw quite a few mixed reviews on them.

Anybody know if these are any good? http://www.fuertebici.com/shop/info_WCL50.html Hubs are from 'Bitex'. Are they good hubs or just tat?

rabk

Rokkala wrote:

I've not seen an actual proper review that questions the aero, just unsubstantiated posts on a few forums saying they are less aero than the SLs.

Have you rode those wheels when wet? Heard water getting into the fairing on the SLs was a problem?

quote]

Agreed, only unsabstantiated reports I have read too.

Have ridden them in the wet, and didn't have any issues at all (It wasn't monsoon conditions though). I believe the spoke hole are bigger than the SL's so don't think it should be too much of an issue.

Pokerface

Rokkala wrote:

Bhima wrote:

Velocity's "Deep V" wheels are cheap and available in a ridiculous ammount of silly colours.

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes. They're absolutely unbreakable too - my mate is 120kg and has them on his fixie with no problems. Heavy though. You can also get them in any colour you want including custom paint jobs if you're really looking for a blingy bike.

Not wanting something aero if its heavy as fook. It's not just going to be for TT's, also for my general riding and sportives.

Rabcp wrote:

hi

I have the Cosmic Carbone SLRs, fantastic wheels in my opinion (although must admit I have not had much experience of deep section wheels other than a set of Corimas)

They are stiff - noticeably so and not too heavy either, I am pretty impressed by them.

One or two reviews question the aerodynamics - and this is difficult to comment on, but if your ar looking for a deep section clincher, with aluminium rim for braking - you won't go far wrong with these.

Incidentally that is a good deal you have been quoted if it includes the MP3 cover (cover is over £100 for these wheels )

I've not seen an actual proper review that questions the aero, just unsubstantiated posts on a few forums saying they are less aero than the SLs.

Have you rode those wheels when wet? Heard water getting into the fairing on the SLs was a problem?

And the £1067 was price including mp3 cover, the wheels themselves i found for just under £1k, the mp3 cover is then 8% of the cost of the wheels!

Anyhoo, shortened the list down to:

Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR
Zipp 404 or 606 wheelset
HED Jet 5 or 6's
Dura Ace 7850 Carbon wheels

Rest either discounted for being bit too heavy or for having a carbon braking rim.

Took a look at the spinergys but saw quite a few mixed reviews on them.

Anybody know if these are any good? http://www.fuertebici.com/shop/info_WCL50.html Hubs are from 'Bitex'. Are they good hubs or just tat?

I have a set of the Mavic SL's from last year. Rode them almost every day as my 'training' wheel. No problems with them. Possibly not as 'aero' as other wheels due to the way the spokes enter the fairing and I've heard about the water getting in issue but didn't ride them in the wet often so can't comment. Only paid about £600 for mine so was a good purchase.

However, my TT times improved when I got the Zipp 808/404 combo and there was no weight penalty. Just a price penalty.

The Dura Ace wheels are your best bet on that list as long as you source the correct freehub. Not sure what the extra cost will be for that - but you should get in touch with the retailer and find out before their price goes up.

rokkala

Pokerface wrote:

I have a set of the Mavic SL's from last year. Rode them almost every day as my 'training' wheel. No problems with them. Possibly not as 'aero' as other wheels due to the way the spokes enter the fairing and I've heard about the water getting in issue but didn't ride them in the wet often so can't comment. Only paid about £600 for mine so was a good purchase.

However, my TT times improved when I got the Zipp 808/404 combo and there was no weight penalty. Just a price penalty.

The Dura Ace wheels are your best bet on that list as long as you source the correct freehub. Not sure what the extra cost will be for that - but you should get in touch with the retailer and find out before their price goes up.

Cheers for info on the SLs, and Rab on the SLRs.

The 404/808 combo i'm sure would be a bit more aero,little bit heavier than claimed SLR weight, but i think i'd just constantly be bricking it about hitting some unseen pothole etc.

Only problem with the Dura Ace is that i'm not going to be buying the wheels until February!

http://www.etailsport.com/cgi-bin/etail ... ts-new1.pl <--is that what i would need to make the Dura Aces work with my campag gears then, or does it require something else?

Infamous

Bhima wrote:

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes.

Aerospokes have been tested in a tunnel to be less aero than a standard 36 spoke wheel. They also weigh about double any other wheel.

Other than that, great advice yet again.

redddraggon

Infamous wrote:

Bhima wrote:

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes.

Aerospokes have been tested in a tunnel to be less aero than a standard 36 spoke wheel. They also weigh about double any other wheel.

Other than that, great advice yet again.

Have you not heard about the miniature wind tunnel Bhima used to test the wheel?

or the candles and fan?

Infamous

redddraggon wrote:

Have you not heard about the miniature wind tunnel Bhima used to test the wheel?

or the candles and fan?

Pokerface

Infamous wrote:

Bhima wrote:

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes.

Aerospokes have been tested in a tunnel to be less aero than a standard 36 spoke wheel. They also weigh about double any other wheel.

Other than that, great advice yet again.

Not being one to want to dispell another Bhima myth - but if tri-spokes are so UN-aero - how do you explain this:

redddraggon

Pokerface wrote:

Infamous wrote:

Bhima wrote:

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes.

Aerospokes have been tested in a tunnel to be less aero than a standard 36 spoke wheel. They also weigh about double any other wheel.

Other than that, great advice yet again.

Not being one to want to dispell another Bhima myth - but if tri-spokes are so UN-aero - how do you explain this:

Aerospoke, not trispoke.



So unaero.

Infamous

I think they're made of alu too.

Pokerface

They look like mag wheels. :shock:

Chip \'oyler

Pokerface wrote:

Infamous wrote:

Bhima wrote:

But if it's TTs you're doing where aerodynamics is all you're interested in, by far the cheapest aero wheels have to be aerospokes.

Aerospokes have been tested in a tunnel to be less aero than a standard 36 spoke wheel. They also weigh about double any other wheel.

Other than that, great advice yet again.

Not being one to want to dispell another Bhima myth - but if tri-spokes are so UN-aero - how do you explain this:

Anything's aero a foot behind a motorbike/camera

rokkala

Oh be fair!!

rokkala

Quick question for those who use there LBS.

One of the guys in my club owns a very small lbs and I would like to give him my business if possible, but not if its going to be to my financial detriment!

So, bearing in mind it is not a big store whatsoever, can any LBS order in say, a set of zipp or mavic wheels, and if so, would they be able to then sell them to me at same price i can find on the net? 2009 Zipp 404s - about £1200, Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR - about £1k.

I know some of you will probably just say, go ask..But, i dont know him all that well, and dont really want the awkwardness of him not actually being able to do it at the same prices and feeling bitter cos i end up going elsewhere to buy!?

Any idea what the trade prices for those wheels are?

Pokerface

Rokkala wrote:

Quick question for those who use there LBS.

One of the guys in my club owns a very small lbs and I would like to give him my business if possible, but not if its going to be to my financial detriment!

So, bearing in mind it is not a big store whatsoever, can any LBS order in say, a set of zipp or mavic wheels, and if so, would they be able to then sell them to me at same price i can find on the net? 2009 Zipp 404s - about £1200, Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR - about £1k.

I know some of you will probably just say, go ask..But, i dont know him all that well, and dont really want the awkwardness of him not actually being able to do it at the same prices and feeling bitter cos i end up going elsewhere to buy!?

Any idea what the trade prices for those wheels are?

First of all - it will depend if your LBS deals with the wholesaler for Mavic or Zipp. My LBS can't get Zipp, but does Mavic.

Can't say what their (your LBS) cost for these wheels are, but it's probably slightly lower than the cheapest web price you can find. Currently, the cheapest 404's are around £1000. Mavic a little less.

Just shop around, find the lowest price you can, then ask your guy if he can match it. If he says yes, then everybody wins. If no, at least he knows you were thinking of him first and you still get the wheels at the price you want to pay.

darren H

Ive ridden Cosmic Carbon rims for 2 years and you have to ask yoursef really if your going to ride with them on your bike all the time then think twice
Lots of my riding is in the Peak and he wind gets up. If your adamant you are goin to have deep rims then yo will have to put up with a fair amount of twitching of the front wheel as the wind catches it.

The mavics are a lovely rim on a nice summrs night when everything is going well but in a crosswind not so good.
I prefer my Zondas for an all round rim

rokkala

Cheers Pokerface, sounds like a plan.

darren H wrote:

Ive ridden Cosmic Carbon rims for 2 years and you have to ask yoursef really if your going to ride with them on your bike all the time then think twice
Lots of my riding is in the Peak and he wind gets up. If your adamant you are goin to have deep rims then yo will have to put up with a fair amount of twitching of the front wheel as the wind catches it.

The mavics are a lovely rim on a nice summrs night when everything is going well but in a crosswind not so good.
I prefer my Zondas for an all round rim

Already have the Sciroccos for use as an all-round rim if i find i struggle with the deep rims ever. But i want something different rather than more of the same. And if im disappointed with them then i have enough cash floating about to get some very good all-rounder wheels too.

Rather spend that money on something else though