Getting onto a team

incog24

Although I'm not yet at a good enough standard yet, how do people go about getting onto a continental team? Is it a passive process, you do well in races, someone notices and gets in touch? Or do you have to go around and tout yourself, get in touch with people, talk to teams at races etc? Standard wise, I presume most people get to 1st Cat before standing a chance of getting onto a team? I'm looking to be a solid 2nd Cat with a couple of sub 21min 10s under my belt by the end of the season, so not quite there yet, but it'd be nice to know for the future.

blackhands

It depends what you mean by a continental team. To get into the top two tiers you will need to be an Elite cat and near to international standard. Most people will join a regional club team then work their way up from there - no-one is going to come to the uK to look for riders.

You will have a long way to go even if you reach your 2010 goals.

incog24

Hmm I might have got the wrong category with continental. I think I mean more regional team, not a team where you'd get expenses or pay, but might get some gear for the season.

Pross

You'll still need to be elite. Most British based "pro" will only be getting expenses and their kit. Just ride and if the results come you will get noticed. What sort of age are you? Most of those riding in UK teams will have come through the age groups and ridden in their divisional or national teams at some stage which will put them on the map. If you become a 1st cat and start doing well in premier calendar or other big races you will get noticed. I assume you are already in a club and are already doing road races? If not I would say walk before you can run, many riders go their whole lives without so much as a point on their licence. I also wouldn't worry about your time trial times, it's unlikely they'll be of interest to the teams.

Once_In_A_Blue_Moon

incog- if you haven't raced before, aiming for cat 2 might be a step too far, unless you're a very talented rider. Though it does happen, it's not often you hear of riders in their first season reaching cat 2. The speed of racing, even at cat 4, will most probably suprise you. It was certainly a shock to the system for me anyway!

If it's your first season, just enjoy it, get some race experience under your belt, learn more about yourself as a rider, then come back stronger in 2011.

gandhi

Once_In_A_Blue_Moon wrote:

incog- if you haven't raced before, aiming for cat 2 might be a step too far, unless you're a very talented rider. Though it does happen, it's not often you hear of riders in their first season reaching cat 2. The speed of racing, even at cat 4, will most probably suprise you. It was certainly a shock to the system for me anyway!

If it's your first season, just enjoy it, get some race experience under your belt, learn more about yourself as a rider, then come back stronger in 2011.

IMHO...
Depending on your age (how much strength you still have to gain naturally), if you have the kind of talent that you need to get onto one of the better small teams, you should expect to be (or nearly be) a 1st cat in your first season. 2nd cat isn't hard to get in first season if you're young and strong. It does depend on how much racing you do though.

incog24

Cheers for the replies everyone. Sorry if I appeared as if I was expecting to just walk into a team or something, that's not at all what I meant, I'm just curious as to how people do it.

I did few races at the end of last year, but struggled due to spending half the year injured and all but one of them being handicap races that involved lots of the higher cats. This year I'm going a lot lot stronger and I'm already 10% on my way to my season target points wise. I've done some testing and apparently have a VO2max of 68ish so I hope I have some potential (I'm only 20 and have been riding for just over 2years, the first of which involved lots of time injured or ill...).

I don't know whether I will ever make it to a suitable standard, but it would be nice know what the standard was. Is 4th-1st Cat possible in one season? Wouldn't that involve picking up 250 points?? You'd have to do a hell of a lot of racing to even consider getting that, and I'm unsure that would actually be good for my progression over a couple of seasons...

Again, I'm not saying I'm good enough, I'm just interested.

acidstrato

a friend of mine made 2nd cat by the last race of his first season, depending on fitness/talent and the number of races you actually enter is fairly do-able. he has since given up training for the entire winter leaving quite a grin worthy image in my head of him getting his arse handed to him on a silver platter in the first even of the coming crit season

fingers crossed anyway

Infamous

My mate went from 3rd to 1st last year (by June I think!) so he got 240+ points in that time.

And he told me he knew someone who went from 4th to Elite in one season, so 550+ points. If you're good enough you will do it.

softlad

if you can ride twice a week throughout the length of the season and choose your events carefully, the points to get you to elite standard are there for the taking.

Whether you are strong enough to get them all is another question entirely...but any 20 year-old going from 4th to elite in a single season will be hard to ignore...

oldwelshman

It should not be too difficlult to make 2nd in one year if you have the talent and fitness, then to get to 1st it is more to do with picking the right events as some will have more points on offer.
Some riders race all year round and do the winter series sometimes thinking less riders will turn up making getting points easier
If your good enough you will get them, and when you enter regional events, if your good enough you will get more.
Last year a junior mate of mine went to to first cat in one year, should make elite this year.

Once_In_A_Blue_Moon

I'm in the same boat as you incog, being 19 and I have a little bit of racing experience. I too would love to be a solid Cat 2 come the end of 2010, but my first race taught me a lot and as I've mentioned above, it will be hard work. You know what to expect racing wise though, so it's certainly doable (I was going under the assumption you've never raced before).

incog24

I've just had a look through the race calender and there're about 35 odd races I could do. Realistically, to get 240 points I'd have to be getting 15-20 points in several races. There also is the issue of staying fit for that long, I'm bound to be ill or injured for some of it, and also paying for race entries and travel. I'm not helped by being in the NE for the first half of the season, racing isn't thick on the ground there.

So it isn't impossible, but it would be pretty difficult. I might be better off concentrating on doing well in hard races at the expense of lots of little crits. It'd look better on my racing cv, and I'd probably see more progression in my riding into next season too i.e. I won't be a total wreck come next September!

In the mean time, my time is probably better spent on the rollers than on here!

nolf

incog24 wrote:

I've just had a look through the race calender and there're about 35 odd races I could do. Realistically, to get 240 points I'd have to be getting 15-20 points in several races. There also is the issue of staying fit for that long, I'm bound to be ill or injured for some of it, and also paying for race entries and travel. I'm not helped by being in the NE for the first half of the season, racing isn't thick on the ground there.

So it isn't impossible, but it would be pretty difficult. I might be better off concentrating on doing well in hard races at the expense of lots of little crits. It'd look better on my racing cv, and I'd probably see more progression in my riding into next season too i.e. I won't be a total wreck come next September!

In the mean time, my time is probably better spent on the rollers than on here!

Similar situation tbh, 20, cat 3. Want to get to cat 2 but just getting to races and race fees makes it difficult.
If you're a student I've found making friends at early season races can help loads with lifts. Most people seem to like students as by and large they're friendly and talkative (and I have offered to lead him out in the sprint ).

You'll need to train a heck of a lot to get to the top end standard.
Try training and getting integrated into your local cycling community, I like training with some high end racers, local juniors and pro triathletes for both training and advice.
Also if people already know you, when you do well in races, everyone will hear about it and I would imagine a lot easier to get noticed.

Monty Dog

A clubmate went from 4th to Elite in one season - he was an ex-international moto-X cross rider, so had plenty of 'race-craft' experience. In terms of getting onto a pro-continential team you need to be placing / winning in Premiers and getting plenty of exposure to continental racing through the BC regional squads. Go and spend some time racing in e.g. Kermesses in Belgium if you want to understand the level of competition - many are pro-am races. Don't worry about needing to 'tout' your wares - winning races should be enough to bring you to the attention of the right people.

Bhima

+1 for racing in Belgium.

I have mates who race there all the time but they tell me it's ridiculously hard. The upside is that cycling is MASSIVE over there. One mate won a bunch sprint and was swamped with press afterwards... They treat races like parties and everyting is over-the-top. All the races get write-ups in the papers, there's pretty much always good prizes/money for wins and a lot are closed-road events. A mate of mine met Tom Boonen & Eddy Merckx at one of the events so there's probably a lot more well-connected people hanging out at races to look for riders.

dangerousdescent

one against Belgium...certainly given your current level of performance and injuries/illness. If you want to learn to race, you need to be in the race, not off the back, breathing out of your backside and wondering when you will get lapped!.

FWIW I would not rush things as if you try to go through the cats quickly this will mean a lot of training and racing and may lead to your injuries/illness recurring. You could set intermediate goals and reassess the situation as you achieve them. For example, try to get to being a good second cat. By that I mean not one based on racing chippers several times every week. Some of those around you in decent races may have done the odd Premier Cal. or National Circuit Series, so assess whether you could handle it. If so your next step is to improve at that level and you will then be noticed. If you have reasonable success, then send your cv to some team managers. Start with some of the less strong/successful teams.
Although there is a positive correlation between licence cat and ability, this isn't perfect as some 1st cats or even very strong 2nds may beat weaker Elites. particularly if their points were gained in chippers. Team managers tend to know their stuff and will be more interested in whether you can do a job for them and the team. That probably will not be about you winning races. Whether you can do a job is more important than your cat.

John.T

You also need to spend time learning the ropes. It takes time to become race wise but reading a race right can save so much energy. Let the mugs do the hard work while you get in the good breaks.

incog24

dangerousdescent wrote:

one against Belgium...certainly given your current level of performance and injuries/illness. If you want to learn to race, you need to be in the race, not off the back, breathing out of your backside and wondering when you will get lapped!.

FWIW I would not rush things as if you try to go through the cats quickly this will mean a lot of training and racing and may lead to your injuries/illness recurring. You could set intermediate goals and reassess the situation as you achieve them. For example, try to get to being a good second cat. By that I mean not one based on racing chippers several times every week. Some of those around you in decent races may have done the odd Premier Cal. or National Circuit Series, so assess whether you could handle it. If so your next step is to improve at that level and you will then be noticed. If you have reasonable success, then send your cv to some team managers. Start with some of the less strong/successful teams.
Although there is a positive correlation between licence cat and ability, this isn't perfect as some 1st cats or even very strong 2nds may beat weaker Elites. particularly if their points were gained in chippers. Team managers tend to know their stuff and will be more interested in whether you can do a job for them and the team. That probably will not be about you winning races. Whether you can do a job is more important than your cat.

That sounds like good advice. My season aim is to get 2nd Cat, once I've achieved that I can have a think about what I want to do next. At the moment I'm just getting stronger and stronger as I train, and I'm enjoying my racing, so I'll just continue to do that. Seasons off to a flyer anyway, 5points last Saturday and a win today, so only 40 more to go this season!

ozzzyosborn206

having not done many races before i dont think you should say i want to do this or that, race and see how you go, there is a massive gap from 3/4 cat road races to elite 1 2 cat races, and unless you are looking at getting into a team that will get you entry to premier calendar which i think would be hard in one season i a not sur ethere is much point joining a team, just join a club then you won't be expected to ride for other people as much

Anonymous

nolf wrote:

incog24 wrote:

I've just had a look through the race calender and there're about 35 odd races I could do. Realistically, to get 240 points I'd have to be getting 15-20 points in several races. There also is the issue of staying fit for that long, I'm bound to be ill or injured for some of it, and also paying for race entries and travel. I'm not helped by being in the NE for the first half of the season, racing isn't thick on the ground there.

So it isn't impossible, but it would be pretty difficult. I might be better off concentrating on doing well in hard races at the expense of lots of little crits. It'd look better on my racing cv, and I'd probably see more progression in my riding into next season too i.e. I won't be a total wreck come next September!

In the mean time, my time is probably better spent on the rollers than on here!

Similar situation tbh, 20, cat 3. Want to get to cat 2 but just getting to races and race fees makes it difficult.
If you're a student I've found making friends at early season races can help loads with lifts. Most people seem to like students as by and large they're friendly and talkative (and I have offered to lead him out in the sprint ).

You'll need to train a heck of a lot to get to the top end standard.
Try training and getting integrated into your local cycling community, I like training with some high end racers, local juniors and pro triathletes for both training and advice.
Also if people already know you, when you do well in races, everyone will hear about it and I would imagine a lot easier to get noticed.

Nope, pay your way. I found most students bleating whingers who get discounts everywhere. I got my degree through the OU, holding down a full time job and having 3 kids at the same time.
Sorry sounds a bit ranty, but this has been my experience.

jerry3571

I think you should hang around for a few years and get your race craft up together. I had a mate who rode the Premier Calender and he just did the donkey work on the climbs as he was a small guy. As you go up you will be used by Teams and be valued on your performance.
I think your Time Trial times are a good sign of a big engine but it depends on your head too (application and a good race head).
I wouldn't get too excited about being a Continental Pro as the majority of riders just do the water carrying. There are a hell of a lot losers and only one winner.
Maybe try to get in contact with British Cycling and see if there are any coaches in the area?
A lot of riders stay here and hold down a job as the foreign side involves some practices which are frowned upon here. I'm sure there are some riders here that do naughty things but I'd be suprised if you rode in Belgium to find everyone drinking spring water only.
Just remembered that I know a chap who rode in France for two years. One race, he was told that the Sponsors would be at the race and that the Team should perform; no excuses. My mate was off the front in a break which later got caught by the main group. My mate was dropped by the main group and he trailed in exhausted. For his efforts he got the Manager balling at him for trailing in behind the main group. Break or no break; it looked bad to the Manager. The Manager was constantly on thier backs about their eating too. No Picnic.

Good luck!

-Jerry