was ben swift at the katusha training camp today?

stefrees

ive had a look at some pictures but cant see if he is, surely if hes not there hes going to sky and vice versa?

Rodrego Hernandez

If he can't get out of his contract with Katusha he won't be getting much racing next year so won't really need to go on a training camp!

irishpeloton

I think it's ridiculous that riders have started the whole kicking and screaming tactic employed by footballers to get themselves out of a contract. Ben Swift signed for Katusha for 2 years and he should be prepared to see out those 2 years instead of acting in an immature, and what seems to me to be an illegal manner.

Same goes for Wiggins, he should have had the decency to see out the last year of his contract with the team that afforded him the opportunity to make a name for himself as a Tour contender.

Rodrego Hernandez

irishpeloton wrote:

Same goes for Wiggins, he should have had the decency to see out the last year of his contract with the team that afforded him the opportunity to make a name for himself as a Tour contender.

Wiggins has gone to the 'team' that helped get him in to the shape to be a tour contender.

irishpeloton

He's gone to team up with Shane Sutton and Dave Brailsford, but there's no way that the team mates he'll have at the Tour with Sky will be as effective as the team mates he had working for him in the mountains at Garmin.

Pokerface

irishpeloton wrote:

He's gone to team up with Shane Sutton and Dave Brailsford, but there's no way that the team mates he'll have at the Tour with Sky will be as effective as the team mates he had working for him in the mountains at Garmin.

A year ago everyone said "there's no way Wiggins will finish in the top 10 at the Tour".

It might be a little early to start making statements that include "....there's no way..."

Why don't we wait until a little closer to the Tour to see how everyone is riding to make those judgements?

TommyEss

You're missing the bigger picture - the team is so much more than the 8 other guys in lycra riding with him - it's all the background staff, mechanics, physios, nutritionists, psychologist - they've always been there to support Wiggins right from when he was taken over to Cuba for the Junior Worlds.

bobtbuilder

Wiggins has gone to the 'team' that helped get him in to the shape to be a tour contender.

He's also f*cked over a team that he signed to ride for for 2 years who took him when no other team wanted him.

If they had ditched him after one year everyone would be going "poor old Bradley, he's been treated so badly". But for some reason it's OK for him to refuse to see out his contractual obligation?

He's a w*nker. :evil:

TommyEss

Bob, Bob, Bob...

We've been through Wiggins' move already - this is a thread about Ben Swift... (and FWIW - would you leave a job you liked at a company you got on pretty well with, for an almost identical job with better pay at a company full of your old mates you've worked with for ages in the past...?)

bobtbuilder

TommyEss wrote:

Bob, Bob, Bob...

We've been through Wiggins' move already - this is a thread about Ben Swift... (and FWIW - would you leave a job you liked at a company you got on pretty well with, for an almost identical job with better pay at a company full of your old mates you've worked with for ages in the past...?)

If I had agreed to work for them for a set period of time, then I would honour that before considering any move. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned. :roll:

wicked

Bob maybe you are being a bit unreasonable to expect everyone else to share your values? Good luck to Brad.
Anyway does anyone know the answer to the OP's qustion before this to turns into yet another wiggo/sky/garmin debate?

Rodrego Hernandez

bobtbuilder wrote:

Wiggins has gone to the 'team' that helped get him in to the shape to be a tour contender.

He's also f*cked over a team that he signed to ride for for 2 years who took him when no other team wanted him.

If they had ditched him after one year everyone would be going "poor old Bradley, he's been treated so badly". But for some reason it's OK for him to refuse to see out his contractual obligation?

He's a w*nker. :evil:

You don't actually know what happened around his transfer so it's a bit rich to make personal attacks like that. He's worked with BC and Shane especially since he was a junior so would obviously want to go to ride for their team and I doubt Vaughters would have stood in his way. From what I understand it was all very amicable but slowed down by the lawyers.

pontarlier_pete

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

bobtbuilder wrote:

Wiggins has gone to the 'team' that helped get him in to the shape to be a tour contender.

He's also f*cked over a team that he signed to ride for for 2 years who took him when no other team wanted him.

If they had ditched him after one year everyone would be going "poor old Bradley, he's been treated so badly". But for some reason it's OK for him to refuse to see out his contractual obligation?

He's a w*nker. :evil:

You don't actually know what happened around his transfer so it's a bit rich to make personal attacks like that. He's worked with BC and Shane especially since he was a junior so would obviously want to go to ride for their team and I doubt Vaughters would have stood in his way. From what I understand it was all very amicable but slowed down by the lawyers.

In a way it's best for Garmin too. They get to concentrate on VDV, and a successful VDV will be much better for their American sponsors than VDV being beaten by Wiggins in a straight fight (i.e. no injuries in teh build up).

Anyway, back to Where's Swifty...

lucybears

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

You don't actually know what happened around his transfer so it's a bit rich to make personal attacks like that. From what I understand it was all very amicable

Maybe bobtbuilder understands things better

Vaughters confirms possibility of legal action led to Wiggins settlement
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughte ... _headlines

Vaughters “It was not the outcome I wanted at all,” he said. “We did everything we could to keep him happy and with us, and we stretched the organization as far as we could. But we are not one of the larger-budgeted ProTour teams.”
The decision to settle, he added, was “based on the fact that I did not feel that going into a protracted legal battle was good for the team and the athletes I should be concentrating on and supporting,”
“My energy is better spent on something else than a legal battle with James Murdoch.”
“The legal resources Sky has at its disposal are quite large.”
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderrepor ... departure/

Dave Brailsford
25 September 2009
"There are two or three more spots to fill on our roster and we have our eyes on a few riders," he told BBC Sport.
"But key British riders are maybe under contract and we've got to respect that."

Rodrego Hernandez

Of course, the media knows the whole process intimately having been involved all along and not had to make things up just to make a story.

I must apologise, I didn't realise that the people I have spoken to about it who were involved were so wrong.

lucybears

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Of course, the media knows the whole process intimately having been involved all along and not had to make things up just to make a story.

I must apologise, I didn't realise that the people I have spoken to about it who were involved were so wrong.

Which begs the question who were the people you spoke to and what did they say ?

Rodrego Hernandez

Can't say. They were closer to the action than the media though.

lucybears

Of course, Rodrego Hernandez knows the whole process intimately having been involved all along etc

bobtbuilder

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Can't say. They were closer to the action than the media though.

I stand corrected. Another person "in the know" but who can't divulge their source. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You need to put up or shut up. Anyone could say they have inside info.

Woolfie

Wiggo again :roll:

The man has moved to a better job (in his opinion) for more money with people he gets on with and can get the best out of him.

It might be mercenary in some peoples opinion but this is professional sport not amateur.

If he is going to fall on his a**e like most of you seem to think then he has got a good deal in getting probably his peak salary now - he hasn't got much of his short career left. He has a family to think about and providing for them in the future.

So Garmin didn't get anything from Wiggins? - they didn't seem to be complaining at his 4th place and all the publicity that got for them. Garmin are just as much a 'professional' outfit as Sky with targets and results to acheive despite the 'spin' they are trying to put about.

Not particularly a 'Garmin hater' or 'Sky lover' just my take on it

Rodrego Hernandez

bobtbuilder wrote:

You need to put up or shut up. Anyone could say they have inside info.

Make me!

If you rely solely on the media for your news then good luck to you. I'm just telling you what happened. There's not many sources named in the cycling news / cycling weekly coverage of the Sky team yet I guess you are happy to believe those who need attention grabbing headlines to make a living. No one is forcing you to read this, it may not be the same drama filled affair you think it was but don't let that ruin your life.

iainf72

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

No one is forcing you to read this, it may not be the same drama filled affair you think it was but don't let that ruin your life.

Did you speak to parties on both sides?

lucybears

iainf72 wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

No one is forcing you to read this, it may not be the same drama filled affair you think it was but don't let that ruin your life.

Did you speak to parties on both sides?

David Millar, part owner of Team Garmin-Transitions, about Wiggins

"Sky tapped him up at the Tour. I was surprised at how JV fought very hard to keep him. JV had a lot of personal interest vested in him. He really liked him. And he believed in him when no one else knew about him. Six months ago, maybe even a year ago, Jonathan believed in Brad, maybe not as a GC rider, but believed in him as potentially a much better rider than he already was. For us, it's been – not traumatic – but it's a bit sad. We like Brad, and we had good fun, but they just threw shitloads of money at him."

William H

bobtbuilder wrote:

He's also f*cked over a team that he signed to ride for for 2 years who took him when no other team wanted him. :

The last part isn't true. At the least, Columbia wanted him to stay with them. Garmin offered him a big salary and more freedom to ride for himself rather than get stuck in the Cav train, but Wiggins wasn't in any danger of being without a ride.

bobbymeister

Yet again, some people on here need to get their bike out and go for a ride to release some of that pent up angst they seem to have.
The amount of moral outrage provoked by Wiggins/Swift/Sky seems way out of proportion.
It's happened - or in Swift's case probably will happen - so can we all just move on.
Surely there are more important issues to get stressed about?

DaveyL

Nice to see CFA coming out of retirement to take a potshot at Wiggins/Sky. I guess it must be a nice indicator of the cleanliness of the sport these days that a clean rider switching from one avowedly clean team to another can provoke such ire whilst other issues go unrecognised...

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

Nice to see CFA coming out of retirement to take a potshot at Wiggins/Sky. I guess it must be a nice indicator of the cleanliness of the sport these days that a clean rider switching from one avowedly clean team to another can provoke such ire whilst other issues go unrecognised...

Well, it's to be expected as JV took some time to talk to CFA about some of her concerns about Garmin.

I think the Cyclocosm blog yesterday about the switch is a good appraisal of the situation.

DaveyL

To be expected?

Has cycling cleaned itself up now to the extent that most pressing issue facing the sport is a rider being poached from a team while still under contract?

I guess we can all rejoice in that case

pedro118118

I thought this was about Ben Swift?!

Bottom line is both riders have had their head turned by: -

a) the chance to be part of something special;
b) familarity and comfort; and
c) money.

No harm in that.
Problem is, both were/are under contract.

With Swiftly, he's young and has been badly advised. He was only too happy to have the security of a two year contract with a top ProTour team and jumped at it. He's put himself in an impossible position now unless Katusha take a view. Unlikely that though, as Tchmill has already expressed his dislike for Sky and the way they 'do business' (tapping up riders and staff on the quiet).

With Wiggo, there weren't exactly a host of top teams queuing up to sign him when he left Columbia. Even less prepared to give him the money he wanted and the freedom he wanted to focus on his objectives. It is a kick in the teeth for Garmin, but I suppose you can't blame Brad and sometimes you have to be selfish.

afx237vi

pedro118118 wrote:

I thought this was about Ben Swift?!

Bottom line is both riders have had their head turned by: -

a) the chance to be part of something special;
b) familarity and comfort; and
c) money.

No harm in that.
Problem is, both were/are under contract.

With Swiftly, he's young and has been badly advised. He was only too happy to have the security of a two year contract with a top ProTour team and jumped at it. He's put himself in an impossible position now unless Katusha take a view. Unlikely that though, as Tchmill has already expressed his dislike for Sky and the way they 'do business' (tapping up riders and staff on the quiet).

With Wiggo, there weren't exactly a host of top teams queuing up to sign him when he left Columbia. Even less prepared to give him the money he wanted and the freedom he wanted to focus on his objectives. It is a kick in the teeth for Garmin, but I suppose you can't blame Brad and sometimes you have to be selfish.

The two year contract wasn't his fault. UCI rules say neo-pros can't be offered a contract for a duration less than two years. Kinda backfired though.

timoid.

What's wrong with Swift seeing out his contract and transferring next year. Do both Sky and Swift need to make it happen now? Why not let him develop for one more year at someone else's expense?