Gripper: We're winning the war on doping - (are we f*ck!)
Unfortunately for Gripper, she seems to be under the misunderstanding that a reduction in the number of positive tests, or the ratification of WADA’s athlete biological passport guidelines (which are guidelines and not laws) amounts to winning the war on doping. Absolute horsesh*t.
Until the top sports men like Armstrong, Valverde, Contador et al show some genuine outrage at what can only be described as the circus that was the Landis, Hamilton, court cases etc.. and come out and say categorically that we condemn the use of all doping and that we acknowledge that doping has has been rampant in the sport, and we turn our back on those who have been caught and we embrace those who have genuinely repented then a few minor successes in the ratification of some guidelines amount to little more than lip service. We all know this will not happen.
We also need the leaders like McQuaid, ASO to show an absolutely zealous and uncompromising approach to routing out those who flaunt the laws and those who supply and support the doped riders, including managers who say I cant watch the riders 24hrs a day....and let’s be honest, there are a few managers around that would have been strong participants in the bad old days of the 90’s.
For as much as I may not like the pseudo-scientology type approach of the new Sky Team, you have to applaud Brailsfords efforts, even if I think the selection of some of the managers who have a less than wholesome past may tarnish the overall image of the team.
Independent organisations, like www.bikepure.org set up by real fans of the sport and who I’m glad to see are supported by young riders and some professionals is more of a victory for the sport than Gripper coming out and saying she is winning the war.
If she wants to win the war, she needs to change the general public’s mindset that pro-riders are little more than drug addicts, once that happens, then I will believe her.
Until the top sports men like Armstrong, Valverde, Contador et al show some genuine outrage at what can only be described as the circus that was the Landis, Hamilton, court cases etc.. and come out and say categorically that we condemn the use of all doping and that we acknowledge that doping has has been rampant in the sport, and we turn our back on those who have been caught and we embrace those who have genuinely repented then a few minor successes in the ratification of some guidelines amount to little more than lip service. We all know this will not happen.
We also need the leaders like McQuaid, ASO to show an absolutely zealous and uncompromising approach to routing out those who flaunt the laws and those who supply and support the doped riders, including managers who say I cant watch the riders 24hrs a day....and let’s be honest, there are a few managers around that would have been strong participants in the bad old days of the 90’s.
For as much as I may not like the pseudo-scientology type approach of the new Sky Team, you have to applaud Brailsfords efforts, even if I think the selection of some of the managers who have a less than wholesome past may tarnish the overall image of the team.
Independent organisations, like www.bikepure.org set up by real fans of the sport and who I’m glad to see are supported by young riders and some professionals is more of a victory for the sport than Gripper coming out and saying she is winning the war.
If she wants to win the war, she needs to change the general public’s mindset that pro-riders are little more than drug addicts, once that happens, then I will believe her.
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Comments
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intothe12 wrote:Until the top sports men like Armstrong, Valverde, Contador et al show some genuine outrage at what can only be described as the circus that was the Landis, Hamilton, court cases etc.. and come out and say categorically that we condemn the use of all doping..
Priceless!
That's like expecting Mafia bosses to condemn the use of extortion!0 -
BikingBernie wrote:intothe12 wrote:Until the top sports men like Armstrong, Valverde, Contador et al show some genuine outrage at what can only be described as the circus that was the Landis, Hamilton, court cases etc.. and come out and say categorically that we condemn the use of all doping..
Priceless!
That's like expecting Mafia bosses to condemn the use of extortion!
Kurt Vonnegut, 'A Man Without A Country':
There is no reason
Good
Can't triumph
Over Evil, If only Angels
Will
Get organized
Along the
Lines
Of the Mafia0 -
Why is it that there are all these wars(war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terrorism,
war on cancer, etc. etc.) and NONE of them ever have been and probably never will be won. I'm beginning to think that the people who run these "wars" don't want to win them because then they'd be out of a job. I realize that it's a sad way to look at it but.........0 -
The term 'war' is rhetoric for shock value. There is no war on drugs in cycling because it is riddled with it and has been, well since it started.
The way I see it is twofold:
1. The cyclists use and abuse substances, transfuse etc and use methods to avoid detection. Failing that they take other PED's that are not banned as yet or un-identifiable. They then assert they are 'clean'. Using their clear conscience that the gear they are taking is not even on the banned list!
2. The UCI et al. don't want a 'war' on drugs in cycling because there would be hardly any top class cyclists left to race and no sponsorship for the teams. Look at this year's TdF they went out of their way not to bust the key teams and riders, it was a PR show and one that they had to win.
So the war on drugs IMO is a facade a debacle, lipservice and bunk nothing more nothing less,
If you get caught using PEDs that are actually on the banned list these days you must be some kind of chump and your chemist/Doctor/Dealer needs a long period of self-reflection or is not up to date with modern doping practice.
I cannot stand people who seek the truth being branded as loonies and nutters, by those who uphold this 'omerta' within the professional ranks. The whole thing is rotten to the core.....getting Valverde, Armstrong, Contador to speak out would be odd as they are all implicated as having doped.
Chapeau to investigative journalists like Mr Walsh et al. and riders such as Bassons, Le Mond etc.
Those riders, Teams, organisers and sponsors who stay quiet and allow the status quo to continue are as tainted as the doping cheats, they are complicit in this total farce.....but then it is all about financial greed ultimately, isn't it?Colnago C60 SRAM eTap, Colnago C40, Milani 107E, BMC Pro Machine, Trek Madone, Viner Gladius,
Bizango 29er0 -
dennisn wrote:Why is it that there are all these wars(war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terrorism,
war on cancer, etc. etc.) and NONE of them ever have been and probably never will be won. I'm beginning to think that the people who run these "wars" don't want to win them because then they'd be out of a job. I realize that it's a sad way to look at it but.........
To Quote Wilco:
It's a War on War0 -
SpaceJunk wrote:dennisn wrote:Why is it that there are all these wars(war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terrorism,
war on cancer, etc. etc.) and NONE of them ever have been and probably never will be won. I'm beginning to think that the people who run these "wars" don't want to win them because then they'd be out of a job. I realize that it's a sad way to look at it but.........
To Quote Wilco:
It's a War on War
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I don't think anyone who follows pro cycling with anything more than a passing interest would claim that the biological passport will bring and end to doping full stop, but surely it has at least reduced some of the worst excesses and most dangerous (to riders health) practices of a few years ago.intothe12 wrote:Unfortunately for Gripper, she seems to be under the misunderstanding that a reduction in the number of positive tests, or the ratification of WADA’s athlete biological passport guidelines (which are guidelines and not laws) amounts to winning the war on doping. Absolute horsesh*t.
There must be a more level playing field now between the guys who are clean and the cheats. Or am I deluded in thinking this?0 -
We keep thinking things are getting better.
I think Gripper is doing a decent job but just how independent is she from the Verbruggen/McQuaid tandem? As long as these two are running the UCI we risk cover-up and favouritism.
I still think we're seeing a two-speed cycling. Although the slower bunch isn't just limited to plucky Frenchmen, it's got the likes of Garmin and hopefully Sky. The more the big teams can make a virtue of riding clean then the better things will get. It's commercial pressure that's pushed some riders into doping and its commercial pressure that will also back the healthy teams.
Gripper and her methods will help catch some people from time to time, as will police raids and other similar manoeuvres but it takes a whole new approach to riding clean as the anti-doping measures will usually be a step behind.0 -
Kléber wrote:We keep thinking things are getting better.
I think Gripper is doing a decent job but just how independent is she from the Verbruggen/McQuaid tandem? As long as these two are running the UCI we risk cover-up and favouritism.
Does anybody know how much autonomy Gripper has over her role, or does she only work within the constraints and the guidelines of the UCI board or UCI Commission on doping?
Clearly this position needs what could only be described as an Anti-Doping Tsar, a crusader of sorts who calls the shots, shoots first and asks questions later.
IMO I liked the way Dick Pound of WADA operated. He was not afraid to drop a few hand grenades into the mix by calling it as he saw it with the UCI, ASO etc... I know a lot of people felt he picked on cycling, and that he had it in for the sport, and that he should also have been crusading against sports cheats in other disciplines i.e. athletics, soccer players on EPO, tennis players etc.. I love the sport, and I love cycling, and I never thought that he had it in for the sport, only the cheats and those in power who have the ability to change things but don’t. So in my view they should bring Pound back. People never liked him because he made people feel uncomfortable with the truth.
More hand grenade throwing is what we need, not only from fans, but from Journalists in the know and from people in charge and hopefully Gripper might get to throw a few herself.0 -
Maybe its time some other sports felt the heat:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/de ... tion-drugs0 -
The second option methinks...Bronzie wrote:I don't think anyone who follows pro cycling with anything more than a passing interest would claim that the biological passport will bring and end to doping full stop, but surely it has at least reduced some of the worst excesses and most dangerous (to riders health) practices of a few years ago.
There must be a more level playing field now between the guys who are clean and the cheats. Or am I deluded in thinking this?
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Spot on...Flanners1 wrote:The UCI et al. don't want a 'war' on drugs in cycling because there would be hardly any top class cyclists left to race and no sponsorship for the teams. Look at this year's TdF they went out of their way not to bust the key teams and riders, it was a PR show and one that they had to win.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:The second option methinks...
Can someone explain that? I've seen this and similar elsewhere and don't fully understand what they conveyThe most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg0 -
paulcuthbert wrote:Can someone explain that? I've seen this and similar elsewhere and don't fully understand what they convey
The data there is what is used to indicate blood doping.
This explains it better than I ever could
http://www.localcyclist.com/2009/09/a-t ... -cyclists/Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
The values in the July readings seem to indicate that for some reason Armstrong production of new red blood cells is depressed, while he seems to have more red blood cells (proportionally) than before.
If a rider infuses blood, it will suppress the body's natural biosynthesis of the hormone responsible for red blood cell production and will result in less reticulocytes or young blood cells. The graph also shows simultaneous increase in the % of blood cells of the total blood cell population, known as hematocrit. This is highly unusual. The inference here is he's been ordering liquid refreshments.
I think the official excuse was that he had diahorrea, which left him dehydrated and gave him funny values. I don't know how diahorrea is supposed to affect reticulocyte population.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
I can't believe an 18 year old Italian has been caught. 18! That's ridiculous.0
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That was a good one, as if it was even remotely likely that Armstrong was seriously dehydrated due to persistent diarrhoea right through the time he was riding the Tour!Timoid. wrote:I think the official excuse was that he had diahorrea, which left him dehydrated and gave him funny values. I don't know how diahorrea is supposed to affect reticulocyte population.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
That was a good one, as if it was even remotely likely that Armstrong was seriously dehydrated due to persistent diarrhoea right through the time he was riding the Tour!Timoid. wrote:I think the official excuse was that he had diahorrea, which left him dehydrated and gave him funny values. I don't know how diahorrea is supposed to affect reticulocyte population.
Ahhh, but you see BB, LA had the runs (some would say the sh!ts) for the whole of the 3 weeks.
Therefore come 2010, he will be diarrhoea free, and hence it will be no surprise then that he wins the TdF, blowing his younger competition to pieces.
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SpaceJunk wrote:BikingBernie wrote:
That was a good one, as if it was even remotely likely that Armstrong was seriously dehydrated due to persistent diarrhoea right through the time he was riding the Tour!Timoid. wrote:I think the official excuse was that he had diahorrea, which left him dehydrated and gave him funny values. I don't know how diahorrea is supposed to affect reticulocyte population.
Ahhh, but you see BB, LA had the runs (some would say the sh!ts) for the whole of the 3 weeks.
Therefore come 2010, he will be diarrhoea free, and hence it will be no surprise then that he wins the TdF, blowing his younger competition to pieces.
...and we won't have access to his blood results Scottish and British...and a bit French0
