Izoard v R3 v CX1 v EPS v Prince v FP7 v Noah

pontarlier_pete

Afternoon everybody,

I was looking for some advice/recommendations for a new racing bike I'm looking to build. It will be used for both road racing and the occasional sportive/holidays in the Swiss mountains visiting family. Therefore, although it needs to be stiff enough for road racing, it also needs to be a decent climber for the Alps and comfortable enough for long days in the saddle. I'm therefore a bit confused as to what to get. I've looked at almost every frame on the market (right from Scott to Storck, including Look, Viner, Parlee, etc etc) and have narrowed it down to the above (to be mated with 2010 Campag Chorus).

I'm also unsure how much to spend. Ideally I would like it to be less than £2k, so I can put more on wheels, but I will be competing in 1st cat/elite races so don't want to be disadvantaged at all (I need advantages, not disadvantages!). I would therefore be willing to go to £2,500 (or a touch higher) but only if the additional expense would make a noticeable difference. I'm 6'2, 75kgs, attacking rider more than a sprinter)

I'm leaning towards either the Colnago CX1 or Ridley Noah, as they seem to be the best "all rounders" (and I love the look of both frames, and the Ridley's aero and length), and fear the Prince may be too racy overall, but would be grateful for any advice or recommendations.

pontarlier_pete

P.s. It will also have to last for around 3 seasons, so it needs to be durable. My concern with the Cervelo is durability, and also the stories I've heard about the finishing.

Many thanks to all.

Pete

giant_man

The EPS sounds ideal for what you need, but with that kind of budget, possibly out of your reach. Still gets my vote though.

I have ridden the R3, which is quite 'get up and go' so race wise would be ideal, but also consider the Wilier Cento Uno. Simply sublime ride imo.

APIII

If you're taking it abroad, is there a suitable bag/box to accommodate the Noah's integrated post?
I own a Prince and have found it comfortable enough on long rides. I had a short test ride on the EPS and thought that felt a touch smoother, but at that level I think you'll find the differences will be small. It'll be down to personal taste as much as anything.

pontarlier_pete

Thanks Giant Mancp. Is the EPS that much better than the CX1 then? I thought the EPS was more of a sprinters' frame? If it really is the perfect bike for my needs, I might have a rummage in the "holiday" drawer and see what I can come up with. It probably makes more sense to pay a bit more for the right thing, than spend 3 years on a compromise.

pontarlier_pete

Good point re the Noah, APIII, I'll have to check that out. I'd need a size L, so the seatpost will be quite tall. It seems the intial concensus is for the EPS then...

giant_man

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

Thanks Giant Mancp. Is the EPS that much better than the CX1 then? I thought the EPS was more of a sprinters' frame? If it really is the perfect bike for my needs, I might have a rummage in the "holiday" drawer and see what I can come up with. It probably makes more sense to pay a bit more for the right thing, than spend 3 years on a compromise.

The EPS is a good all round frame, racing included. Comfortably compliant with any discipline you wish to throw at it. If you are going to go for it, then for gawds sake get a test ride. Windwave the UK distributors are very good at arranging this at your nearest Colnago dealer.

If you are like me, ie it's all in the ride rather than what's on the top tube then you need to think about doing this.

Anonymous

The Noah has an ISP which will mean a pain in th'a55 for transporting. Plus, they is UGLY.

I'm in the EPS crowd...

pontarlier_pete

giant mancp wrote:

The EPS is a good all round frame, racing included. Comfortably compliant with any discipline you wish to throw at it. If you are going to go for it, then for gawds sake get a test ride. Windwave the UK distributors are very good at arranging this at your nearest Colnago dealer.

If you are like me, ie it's all in the ride rather than what's on the top tube then you need to think about doing this.

Yep, it's all in the ride.

I'm a bit surprised by how popular the EPS is. As it's old skool lugs I was expecting it to be dismissed as a relic, and people to rave on about the Prince. From what you say though, It does sound perfect. Right then, time to get onto Windwave for a test ride and see what I can do about my budget...

Chip \'oyler

I think you'll find an EPS is out of your budget

The frame alone is nearly £3k

Anonymous

EPS is £2680 from Maestro...

http://www.maestro-uk.com/

pontarlier_pete

Chip \'oyler wrote:

I think you'll find an EPS is out of your budget

The frame alone is nearly £3k

Yep, that's the problem. There's no way I can afford/justify £3k for a frame. However, if on test ride it's as amazing as it seems to be, I might wait a couple of months to see if there are any good deals bringing it to nearer to the £2.5-2.75k mark. I'd rather wait for the right thing, and I guess my 2002 aluminium Claud Butler Roubaix winter bike (A shed. such a harsh ride) can be touched up for an early season race or two. It'll be good training! (Sold my Giant at end of last season).

Anonymous

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

I think you'll find an EPS is out of your budget

The frame alone is nearly £3k

Yep, that's the problem. There's no way I can afford/justify £3k for a frame. However, if on test ride it's as amazing as it seems to be, I might wait a couple of months to see if there are any good deals bringing it to nearer to the £2.5-2.75k mark. I'd rather wait for the right thing, and I guess my 2002 aluminium Claud Butler Roubaix winter bike (A shed. such a harsh ride) can be touched up for an early season race or two. It'll be good training! (Sold my Giant at end of last season).

Err... Hello?

EPS is £2680 from Maestro...

http://www.maestro-uk.com/

pontarlier_pete

NapoleonD wrote:

EPS is £2680 from Maestro...

http://www.maestro-uk.com/

Wow. That's do-able. Just. Cheers for the heads up. Now to get that test ride before they see sense.

Anonymous

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

EPS is £2680 from Maestro...

http://www.maestro-uk.com/

Wow. That's do-able. Just. Cheers for the heads up. Now to get that test ride before they see sense.

They are always the cheapest in the UK. Furthermore they have a very good rapport with Colnago and can get any back catalogue paint scheme at a reasonable cost...

pontarlier_pete

NapoleonD wrote:

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

I think you'll find an EPS is out of your budget

The frame alone is nearly £3k

Yep, that's the problem. There's no way I can afford/justify £3k for a frame. However, if on test ride it's as amazing as it seems to be, I might wait a couple of months to see if there are any good deals bringing it to nearer to the £2.5-2.75k mark. I'd rather wait for the right thing, and I guess my 2002 aluminium Claud Butler Roubaix winter bike (A shed. such a harsh ride) can be touched up for an early season race or two. It'll be good training! (Sold my Giant at end of last season).

Err... Hello?

EPS is £2680 from Maestro...

http://www.maestro-uk.com/

Sorry, was writing reply to the previous post when you posted! Thanks, that looks perfect.

Cheers for the reponses guys.

Anonymous

Heh heh, no worries!

pontarlier_pete

giant mancp wrote:

The EPS is a good all round frame, racing included. Comfortably compliant with any discipline you wish to throw at it. If you are going to go for it, then for gawds sake get a test ride. Windwave the UK distributors are very good at arranging this at your nearest Colnago dealer.

If you are like me, ie it's all in the ride rather than what's on the top tube then you need to think about doing this.

I've been told by Windwave that they can't arrange test-rides and to contact a LBS, but not to expect anything as they are not likely to have an EPS in stock set aside for test rides. Has anyone any suggestions on which to approach? Windwave have suggested Sigma Sport in Lahndahn.

Have to say, I'm a bit disappointed now... I won't hand over that much money to anyone, blind.

Anonymous

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

giant mancp wrote:

The EPS is a good all round frame, racing included. Comfortably compliant with any discipline you wish to throw at it. If you are going to go for it, then for gawds sake get a test ride. Windwave the UK distributors are very good at arranging this at your nearest Colnago dealer.

If you are like me, ie it's all in the ride rather than what's on the top tube then you need to think about doing this.

I've been told by Windwave that they can't arrange test-rides and to contact a LBS, but not to expect anything as they are not likely to have an EPS in stock set aside for test rides. Has anyone any suggestions on which to approach? Windwave have suggested Sigma Sport in Lahndahn.

Have to say, I'm a bit disappointed now... I won't hand over that much money to anyone, blind.

Give Mike at Maestro a bell and see what he says...

APIII

I've bought a bike from Sigma in the past, and at the time they weren't offering test rides on any of their bikes, not even a spin round the block. Tbh, I think you'll have a job on your hands finding an EPS to test ride, if Windwave aren't doing them anymore, as I think most frames are to order. You'll have a better chance of test riding some of the other bikes on your list. My lbs, for example, has some Cervelos built up along with an FP7 (Phil Corley, Milton Keynes)

Chip \'oyler

NapoleonD wrote:

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

I think you'll find an EPS is out of your budget

The frame alone is nearly £3k

Yep, that's the problem. There's no way I can afford/justify £3k for a frame. However, if on test ride it's as amazing as it seems to be, I might wait a couple of months to see if there are any good deals bringing it to nearer to the £2.5-2.75k mark. I'd rather wait for the right thing, and I guess my 2002 aluminium Claud Butler Roubaix winter bike (A shed. such a harsh ride) can be touched up for an early season race or two. It'll be good training! (Sold my Giant at end of last season).

Err... Hello?

EPS is £2680 from Maestro...

http://www.maestro-uk.com/

That's just for the frame. How is the OP going to put Chorus on there plus wheels and finishing kit for his budget?

pontarlier_pete

No, the budget is just for the frame, sorry if I wasn't clear. The Chorus, wheels and finishing kit are on top of that. Although at this rate if I get the EPS I might be racing on my training wheels this season...

huuregeil

Pete,

Some thoughts:

1. What do you actually like in frame? It doesn't really sound like you've got this nailed (given the range of bikes in your shortlist: from the Noah, an out and out sprinters frame, to the Izoard, which is much more all-day comfort oriented). Lightness, stiffness in the bb or front, handling, wheelbase, etc.. What about fit and your position, arguably the most important part? No point identifying your dream bike only to find the sizes it comes in means your positioning is compromised. What was your old bike and what did/didn't you like about it?

2. Why the shortlist? Some of the bikes you've "eliminated" are similarly excellent, what's the reason for exclusion, other than to simplify the choice process? E.g. Look, Time, Cannondale, Merckx, Orbea, Viner (a custom Mitus has surely got to be a serious contender at that kind of money, if only because it's custom and could be tuned to be exactly what you want and it would fit perfectly).

3. Outlay. I think you can get some seriously good frames, and seriously good value under £2000 if you look. I'd personally need a very good reason to spend more, if budget is a consideration. Far better to spend the difference on wheels or a decent training bike that you can pack quality training miles on in poor weather.

Have a think about all this and then probably your best strategy is to go and visit a few decent bike shops - e.g. ones that have a good range of high end bikes and are staffed by people who race or who are gear fanatics! - and have a good chat to them about it. You'll likely get better advice there than here!

Nice problem to have :-)

EDIT I'd just add about spending cash on frame vs cash on wheels. If you're not a sprinter, rather an aggressive rider, (and, in fact, even if you're a sprinter!) a nice set of light and aero wheels might just make the difference between an attack sticking and it failing; that extra money spent on the frame won't necessarily do much for your race performance. I know where I'd spend the cash!

pontarlier_pete

Thanks huuregeil, certainly food for thought. Using your numbering:

1. I like a longer frame (I have slightly longer torso proportionally), that rides nicely, with a bit of vertical compliance, but is also very stiff around the bb and headset. I have quite a low bar position, so that when I'm on my drops my back angle is around 15degrees from horizontal. The shortlist includes only frames I know I can fit my geometry. I had a Giant TCR. It was ok, very competent, I liked the stiffness, but there was no emotion with it. It was a tool, no more no less. This time I'm looking for a love affair, something to pull at the heart, hence the list comprising mostly Italians. As far as racing goes, it needs to be an all-rounder. I'm not a 50kg climber, but I'm not an out and out sprinter either.

2. The shortlist is based on frames I can afford, frames I think are near what type I want for my purposes, and which stir an emotional response. Ok, except for the Cervelo, but that's probably the closest frame to suit my purposes. But it doesn't stir the emotions. And it's a bit of a brick aerodynamically. And they seem to be finished cheaply. The other bikes you've mentioned were discounted mainly because they just don't do it for me.

3. The race/training bike thing doesn't work for me. We spend a lot of time during the year in France and so I can only take one bike at a time. As I often do a bit of racing over there I need it to do both. And let's face it, going up and down mountains is always more fun on your race bike. But this is where the comfort becomes an issue for me. As for wheels, next season is a bit of an interim season for me - we'll be spending more time in France than usual and so I won't be racing as much. I'm expecting to only do maybe 5-10 races all s season, depending on how many I do in France. In a way, therefore, I'm happy to spend more on getting the right frame and leaving getting racing wheels until next winter, particularly asI'm fairly pleased so far with my new training wheels (Mavic open pro's on powertaps). But you're spot on about the type of riding , which is why I was looking fairly hard at the Ridley, as reviews have said it's also good at climbing. My only concern with that is how harsh it may be, also at that price it's not too far to an EPS, and also the seatpin issue for travelling as some else pointed out.

It basically therfore comes down to me wanting the best "all round" racing bike possible, but which is still happy doing long mountain rides. It's asking a hell of a lot, which I guess is why the seemingly ideal frame costs £3k.

It's going to be difficult to decide if I can't get test-rides, in which case I'll have to rely on other people's advice, which has come down firmly in teh EPS camp. And judging by comments, it sounds like my perfect bike. And with teh Colnago, it fulfills the heart criteria, so much so that I'm convincing myself it could last for a good 10 years or so, although the last few of those in semi-retirement (as I will also be from racing by that time!).

I see the Noah has a couple of votes, wheras teh other cheaper frames habve nonoe. I therefore think the order is 1 EPS, 2 Noah, 3 CX1, depending on whether I can get tests adn whether I think the extra cost is worth it after teh rides. The comments so far seem to be pretty conclusive on that, however. And extremely helpful. Thank you to all.

Anonymous

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

No, the budget is just for the frame, sorry if I wasn't clear. The Chorus, wheels and finishing kit are on top of that. Although at this rate if I get the EPS I might be racing on my training wheels this season...

You were...

redddraggon

Extreme Power - You can pick these up for around £2000

Squillinossett

For me, If I had a choice between those frames, would be the EPS then the Wilier

APIII

Just to throw a spanner in the works....Seeing as you seem set on a Colnago, you could consider the C50, especially as comfort seems to be a priority. I rode one back to back with the EPS, and although the EPS is certainly stiffer in the b/b area, the C50 was a lovely ride, it certainly wasn't a noodle. I *think* they've relaxed the geometry of the C50 in recent years to make it more of a sportive/racer rather than an out and out race bike, but that's not necessarily a bad thing if you want a do it all bike. I guess that because it's been around a while, it gets overlooked by the EPS, but I definitely think it's worth considering.

huuregeil

OK, that all makes things clearer! FWIW, I like more solid bikes too (particularly in the mountains), and both the Colnago and Ridley fall into this mould - I would love to own an EPS, I think it's my dream bike if I had the cash, so I totally understand your temptation to splash out! However, what about one of the other ridley models, e.g. Damocles? Also, I know it's not on your shortlist, but a Look 585 is very good value and by all accounts a superb all rounder - as an ex-Look owner, I can attest to their excellent ride and handling, and I'd be an owner of a 585 were their sizing not quite right for me (I need a longer head-tube, shorter top tube).

Chip \'oyler

For £2.5k you can get a Viner Mitus Plus custom built to fit and ride you exactly. (You can even get it custom sprayed)

http://www.worldwidecycles.com/p-881-vi ... -plus.aspx

I own a custom Viner - they are superb.

Lagavulin

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

P.s. It will also have to last for around 3 seasons, so it needs to be durable.

Only a miserly two year warranty on the Izoard. That said, if your paint fails within that period you'll likely get a replacement which could bring it up to 3 years.

Fancy the EPS or Prince from your list but no Orbea Orca?