this brought tears to my eyes

markwalker

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article6956510.ece

from the times, and a poignant reminder about how good most of us have it.

Happy Christmas

Chip \'oyler

I'm I missing something here? It's a great idea BUT soldiers sign up to the Army. They're not forced into doing it. And by signing up, unless they're a bit thick, should realise they're going to be away from home for long stretches and might actually get shot at.

There now seems to be a mawkishness surrounding the soldiers in Afghanistan - much like the emotional outbursts seen when Diana died.

I don't blame the soldiers - it's the civilians back home

And just to set the record straight - there are people worse off than these families this Christmas

gabriel959

+1 - What he said.

It is sad when someone dies over there, but no one can expect to be in a war with no casualties, surely?

Chunkers1980

gabriel959 wrote:

+1 - What he said.

It is sad when someone dies over there, but no one can expect to be in a war with no casualties, surely?

Name a war without casulties that has lasted over a month.....

It's a conscripted service, no-one forces people into the Army. I just think that some people sign up thinking they'll never have to fight.

I was lucky, as it was my sis in the Army in Iraq twice, they don't put girls on the front line do they so I was never that worried.

Like said remember there are people in worse situations this crimbo who didn't sign up for it.

markwalker

So you think becasue someone signed up to this job (or any job) that requires long periods of time away from children or families that there should be no angst or pain in the seperation?

That becasue they signed up they have in some way only got themselves to blame so divorce themselves from any fealings of pain or regret

Children Im afraid largely wont sign up to that. And a reminder like this or photographs that might provide support in some way has got to be good. And no i dont think the article was particularly mawkish

And yes no one forces them to join but thank god some people arent as unfeeling or uncaring about people other than themselves.

Jesus

Mark

zanes

Hold the bus a mo', weren't you the bloke a while back who was saying that people should be forced to wear a poppy to "show remembrance" (here's a hint- remembrance for those of us that have lost is a lot more than wearing a poppy for a few days/weeks a year, then going back to normal) for people who died for our freedom?

bobtbuilder

Don't feed the troll................... :roll:

zanes

Damn it, after Number9 in commuting, I seem to have become less perceptive as to trolls. :oops:

Buckled_Rims

I went to sign up for the navy in 1980. Everyone said "you might get killed in a war!" Due to having to wait 6 months for enlisting, I soon got bored and carried on with my same old routine job. Yes, the Falkland war happened the next year!

Can anyone please explain why Afghanistan is SO important? I mean, if it's to protect Pakistan's nuclear weapons, then why not stay on that side of the Khyber.

Me thinks it's a base for USA to invade Iran

Chunkers1980

markwalker wrote:

So you think becasue someone signed up to this job (or any job) that requires long periods of time away from children or families that there should be no angst or pain in the seperation?

Of course there will be, but they signed up for it. Same as off shore surveyers, oil riggers ect ect the list goes on.

markwalker wrote:

That becasue they signed up they have in some way only got themselves to blame so divorce themselves from any fealings of pain or regret

It's human nature to do this, I miss my missus for 10 hours a day, this is what I signed up for, I'm to blame.

markwalker wrote:

Children Im afraid largely wont sign up to that. And a reminder like this or photographs that might provide support in some way has got to be good. And no i dont think the article was particularly mawkish

Yes, children wont understand this and it's probably not particually a good situation for them and not at all their fault. It is their parents fault, they knew it was a possibility they'd not be there (list all people who work away) so perhaps don't have kids if that's not the way you want to bring them up.

markwalker wrote:

And yes no one forces them to join but thank god some people arent as unfeeling or uncaring about people other than themselves.

Here here, I'd never do it. But there are people like my sis crazy enough to.

GavH

Chunkers1980 wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

+1 - What he said.

It is sad when someone dies over there, but no one can expect to be in a war with no casualties, surely?

Name a war without casulties that has lasted over a month.....

It's a conscripted service, no-one forces people into the Army. I just think that some people sign up thinking they'll never have to fight.

I was lucky, as it was my sis in the Army in Iraq twice, they don't put girls on the front line do they so I was never that worried.

Like said remember there are people in worse situations this crimbo who didn't sign up for it.

Actually you WERE lucky. Lucky to have no comprehension of the three block war concept or the idea that there is no such thing as a 'front line' these days!

gabriel959

zanes wrote:

Damn it, after Number9 and TerraNova in commuting, I seem to have become less perceptive as to trolls. :oops:

Calling TerraNova a troll is a bit much though.

zanes

gabriel959 wrote:

zanes wrote:

Damn it, after Number9 and TerraNova in commuting, I seem to have become less perceptive as to trolls. :oops:

Calling TerraNova a troll is a bit much though.

Perhaps so, I'll edit. However, I sometimes feel he strays (perhaps understandably given his situation) a little towards this.

simple_salmon

Isn't a troll someone who makes a post just to stir up an argument?

Number9 does cause heated discussions but he seems genuinly (sp) passionate about what he is saying and I have seen him post the same on other forums.

FWIW I often think he has a point and is sometimes attacked unnecessarily.

markwalker

zanes wrote:

Hold the bus a mo', weren't you the bloke a while back who was saying that people should be forced to wear a poppy to "show remembrance" (here's a hint- remembrance for those of us that have lost is a lot more than wearing a poppy for a few days/weeks a year, then going back to normal) for people who died for our freedom?

You dont mean me do you

zanes

markwalker wrote:

zanes wrote:

Hold the bus a mo', weren't you the bloke a while back who was saying that people should be forced to wear a poppy to "show remembrance" (here's a hint- remembrance for those of us that have lost is a lot more than wearing a poppy for a few days/weeks a year, then going back to normal) for people who died for our freedom?

You dont mean me do you

Yes, I did. I've now dug back through the thread and realised I now look a bit of a tw@t as you weren't. Apologies. As you were, nothing to see here.....

*crawls back to commuting general?*

SBezza

As a ex member of the armed forces, it is tough being away from your family, but you do know what you have signed up for. Of course you feel the pain of being away from the family, but it is something you have to bear, and unfortunately that goes for the family as well.

There will be alot of members of the armed forces away from home and their families, but still stationed in the UK, doing guard duty and the like, these may feel the pain, just as much as someone in Afghanistan. They just haven't got the additional risk of being killed in action.

Anonymous

I think there are a few "closet soldiers" on here, who seem to have a lot to say one way or another about aspects of the Armed forces. Nothing wrong with an opinion or a point of view but in all fairness there does seem a brusqe, "well they joined up, let 'em suffer" vein running through the more pessimistic replies.

Just my opinion.

GavH

dmclite wrote:

Nothing wrong with an opinion or a point of view but in all fairness there does seem a brusqe, "well they joined up, let 'em suffer" vein running through the more pessimistic replies.

Agreed. A lot of folks on here portraying a sense of "well that's just how I feel / that's who I am" but wouldn't dare impart said opinion in the physical presence of the very people they are actually insulting. :roll:

SBezza

Well some of us that have been in the armed forces actually know what it is like to be away from your family at Christmas, be it in a warzone, or just guarding an empty camp, because everyone else has gone home to their families. You know this could happen before you even sign on the dotted line, and hence even though you don't like it, you know it is part of your job.

For someone that has never been in the forces, to say we are uncaring and brusqe is just silly, some of actually know what it is like to be forced to spend Christmas away from your family. Like I say it isn't easy, but it is your job. It isn't an insult, it is the facts. If the front line guys don't like, they can leave the forces and get a normal job, but I bet 99% of them wouldn't even consider that as an option.

I feel for the family back home and the kids, but they will have other families around them in the same situation, in fact a whole camp full, they stick together and make the most of it, or they go away to their families.

I actually feel immense sorrow each and every time a soldier is killed in action, and even more so for the ones that get severely disabled that you don't hear about. I wish the guys and girls were not out there, but they are and doing a fantastic job.

GavH

SBezza wrote:

For someone that has never been in the forces, to say we are uncaring and brusqe is just silly, some of actually know what it is like to be forced to spend Christmas away from your family. Like I say it isn't easy, but it is your job. It isn't an insult, it is the facts. If the front line guys don't like, they can leave the forces and get a normal job, but I bet 99% of them wouldn't even consider that as an option.

SBezza I my be being a touch over-sensitive here but are those comments above aimed at me? If not, forget I asked but thats how it reads following on from my last post? :?

SBezza

GavH wrote:

SBezza wrote:

For someone that has never been in the forces, to say we are uncaring and brusqe is just silly, some of actually know what it is like to be forced to spend Christmas away from your family. Like I say it isn't easy, but it is your job. It isn't an insult, it is the facts. If the front line guys don't like, they can leave the forces and get a normal job, but I bet 99% of them wouldn't even consider that as an option.

SBezza I my be being a touch over-sensitive here but are those comments above aimed at me? If not, forget I asked but thats how it reads following on from my last post? :?

Well this is what you previously wrote

GavH wrote:

Agreed. A lot of folks on here portraying a sense of "well that's just how I feel / that's who I am" but wouldn't dare impart said opinion in the physical presence of the very people they are actually insulting.

So yes the part of what I wrote about I am not insulting anyone by how I feel, was aimed at you. Not that I am having a go or anything, it is just wrong to say we are insulting guys that are away from home on the front line. I would say it to a soldiers face, I have been in similar situations in the Forces, I know how they feel.

GavH

SBezza wrote:

GavH wrote:

SBezza wrote:

For someone that has never been in the forces, to say we are uncaring and brusqe is just silly, some of actually know what it is like to be forced to spend Christmas away from your family. Like I say it isn't easy, but it is your job. It isn't an insult, it is the facts. If the front line guys don't like, they can leave the forces and get a normal job, but I bet 99% of them wouldn't even consider that as an option.

SBezza I my be being a touch over-sensitive here but are those comments above aimed at me? If not, forget I asked but thats how it reads following on from my last post? :?

Well this is what you previously wrote

GavH wrote:

Agreed. A lot of folks on here portraying a sense of "well that's just how I feel / that's who I am" but wouldn't dare impart said opinion in the physical presence of the very people they are actually insulting.

So yes the part of what I wrote about I am not insulting anyone by how I feel, was aimed at you. Not that I am having a go or anything, it is just wrong to say we are insulting guys that are away from home on the front line. I would say it to a soldiers face, I have been in similar situations in the Forces, I know how they feel.

Well in that case I'll leave you to your blissful ignorance of what I do for a living and where I've been very recently. :roll:

Frank the tank

I have nothing but the deepest respect for our armed forces both present and past. I've always been a civilian and I've always been able to see my family on a daily basis. My children are now adults and left home one permanently the other comes home at weekends, I love to see them.

Being a member of the armed forces you invariably are away from home for sometimes long periods and sometimes never to return, I can't imagine how that must feel when waving bye-bye as you walk from your front door.

On the they joined up they know the risks score, has it occured that during this recession with jobs very hard to come by some may well be signing up to give themselves the hope of a better life, even after taking into account the risks. It's not quite the same, but, when I left school 1977 a recession was begining to bite and although I'd always promised myself and parents I'd never go down the pit I started to consider the option as job applications kept being ignored.

Anonymous

SBezza wrote:

Well some of us that have been in the armed forces actually know what it is like to be away from your family at Christmas, be it in a warzone, or just guarding an empty camp, because everyone else has gone home to their families. You know this could happen before you even sign on the dotted line, and hence even though you don't like it, you know it is part of your job.

For someone that has never been in the forces, to say we are uncaring and brusqe is just silly, some of actually know what it is like to be forced to spend Christmas away from your family. Like I say it isn't easy, but it is your job. It isn't an insult, it is the facts. If the front line guys don't like, they can leave the forces and get a normal job, but I bet 99% of them wouldn't even consider that as an option.

I feel for the family back home and the kids, but they will have other families around them in the same situation, in fact a whole camp full, they stick together and make the most of it, or they go away to their families.

I actually feel immense sorrow each and every time a soldier is killed in action, and even more so for the ones that get severely disabled that you don't hear about. I wish the guys and girls were not out there, but they are and doing a fantastic job.

Sorry, forgot to metion, did 10 1/2 years in the Army, how long were you in ?

SBezza

dmclite wrote:

Sorry, forgot to metion, did 10 1/2 years in the Army, how long were you in ?

I was in the RAF for 5 1/2 years before getting made redundant, would still be in now if it wasn't for that.

GavH, if you are in the forces, then say so, but I will still have the same attitude, you knew exactly what joining the forces entails, you know as well as I do, the selection process makes you fully aware of what goes on. It is not insulting you by saying this, is it.

Like I say it isn't easy, and I would never like to have to do it again, BUT you know the nature of the employment you accepted would mean potentially long periods away from friends and family, be it Christmas or any other time.

If you are in the Forces, I salute you for the job you do, and I do hope no harm ever comes to you.

shane515

Having completed 22 years in the Army (left in 2007) I served in Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq and many other places but thats not what the original post was about.

It has nothing to do with 'they signed up so let them suffer' it was about a very young daughter missing her Dad at Christmas, her Dad happens to be in the Army.....it was not about an Oil Rig worker, Fireman, Policeman or any other job. It was about a soldier in a war zone, so please dont jump on the 'they signed on the dotted line' band wagon as many people in this country do.

I didnt ask to serve on Operations or to be away on Christmas Days, some in the UK and some on Tour, I was just doing my job.......but my two very young daughters still missed their Dad at Christmas!

I bet all this soldier in this article would ask for is your support not your sympathy, he knows all to well that he joined up to do this job, a job he will give 100% commitement to. But dont make light of the pain he will suffer at missing his children and family at Christmas.

Shane

TornadoTom

shane515 wrote:

Having completed 22 years in the Army (left in 2007) I served in Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq and many other places but thats not what the original post was about.

It has nothing to do with 'they signed up so let them suffer' it was about a very young daughter missing her Dad at Christmas, her Dad happens to be in the Army.....it was not about an Oil Rig worker, Fireman, Policeman or any other job. It was about a soldier in a war zone, so please dont jump on the 'they signed on the dotted line' band wagon as many people in this country do.

I didnt ask to serve on Operations or to miss many many Christmas Days, some in the UK and some on Tour, I was just doing my job.......but my two very young daughters still missed their Dad at Christmas!

I bet all this soldier in this article would ask for is your support not your sympathy, he knows all to well that he joined up to do this job, a job he will give 100% commitement to. But dont make light of the pain he will suffer at missing his children and family at Christmas.

Shane

Most eloquently put.

Chip \'oyler

shane515 wrote:

Having completed 22 years in the Army (left in 2007) I served in Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq and many other places but thats not what the original post was about.

It has nothing to do with 'they signed up so let them suffer' it was about a very young daughter missing her Dad at Christmas, her Dad happens to be in the Army.....it was not about an Oil Rig worker, Fireman, Policeman or any other job. It was about a soldier in a war zone, so please dont jump on the 'they signed on the dotted line' band wagon as many people in this country do.

I didnt ask to serve on Operations or to be away on Christmas Days, some in the UK and some on Tour, I was just doing my job.......but my two very young daughters still missed their Dad at Christmas!

I bet all this soldier in this article would ask for is your support not your sympathy, he knows all to well that he joined up to do this job, a job he will give 100% commitement to. But dont make light of the pain he will suffer at missing his children and family at Christmas.

Shane

As has been said, you're post is very eloquent. Problem is, I didn't write my original post very well and as a result my original thoughts have been misconstrued.

I have the utmost respect for anybody in the armed forces, after reading much War Poetry from WW1, I do feel for the serving person in trying times. My problem is with the media, and the frenzy they whip up surrounding the armed forces in Afghanistan. The story is a sad one, but there are thousands of other people in the same situation, but because they're not serving in Afghanistan, are ignored.

I also have a beef with Xmas too (bah humbug). Surely it's hard to be seperated from family FULL STOP. Not just at christmas. Yet the media get all mawkish at this time of year.

teagar

The problem is that it's not news.

I don't think it being sh!t that people are missing christmas with their families is being disputed. 'Course it's sh!t.

It's not a noteworthy event. It's barely an event.

The war is news - soldiers missing christmas because of it isn't.

The only news in that article is that the army has set up a little thing where some soldiers can record them reading bedtime stories onto CD for their children.

Great.

Reminds me why I stopped reading the times.

Chaz.Harding

Ok, so Chip 'oyler and gabriel959

I am a soldier, and I have been on tour in Iraq over Christmas / new year.

I was incredibly difficult, as I love my GF, and missed her alot. And the rest of my family. I missed them all.

We (all the Armed forces) do a critically important job. Whether or not you agree on the 'War on Terror' or whatever, in Iraq and Afghanistan (and alot of other places too, that you don't hear of), it's ESSENTIAL for our morale that we have support from the public, 100%. I don't care whether or not you agree with the politics, as I dont. I'm not sure why we are there fighting, but we are. So I'll support anyone who go's away, totally.

No offence, but it's people like you, that boil my blood. You might not have meant it to come across like this, but it's simply ungreatful. We make a huge sacrifice, sometimes the greatest sacrifice, for our family, friends, and country.

We do it, so people who can't, or don't want to, don't have to. All we ask is some respect for our job, and support. That's it. Not much to ask is it?

When we sign up, we all realise that we will, at some point, have to do some shitty jobs, in shitty, far-away countries, but how does this comfort us when we do go away? In short, it doesn't.

So please, just support us,the Armed Forces as a whole, regardless whether you agree on our reasons for being away.