Afan and HT's ? reallycompatible ?

weeksy59

As some may have read i was at Afan again on Sunday and getting the crap battered out of me on Whites and Penhydd. Soon i'm due to get a C2W and a new machine to play on.

I'm stil still still torn as to what to buy... Good spec HT or average spec FS

Question is, is it the fact that my HT (specialized hardrock sport) is completely out of it's depth on Afan or is it that ALL HT's are out of their depth on such rockey terrain.

It's not a question of being unable to make the routes, of course, either bike will get round there perfectly well. However i'm not sure if it's my HT that's making it such a chore at times ?

Would something like the Carrera Titan carbon feel just as bad round there ?

Whilst Afan isn't my regular riding spot, (mostly local trails) it will be 5-10 times next year with several evenings at Swinley forest thrown in too.

I know the Spec i have is a heavy bugger with cruddy forks and rubbishy everything elses... But would i really feel sweet and happy on a top HT ?

I do prefer the HT as i LOVE climbing... but my body is screaming at me to buy an FS for comfort.

TheNorthernTrain

I know a guy that did Afan on a £250 mongoose hardtail and came out the other side. I was gonna do it on my diamondback sorrento but unfortunately was ill. A jump bike was also ragged round Afan on that trip.

Im sure you'll be fine.

P-Jay

Afan on a hardtail? No problem.

I've never had a hardtail - went rigid to FS (after about 7 years), but my mates used to pound around on Hardrocks and Agressors for year, dim problem.

Met a guy coming down the Black on whites on a rigid single-speed GT (the ones they were selling lasy year and the year before), he was going a lot slower than me on my 6" FS, but he was having as much (or more) fun as me.

Not to mention, some of the trails at Afan pre-date, certainly the widespread use of anyway - rear suspension.

Anonymous

you are going to need a fs bike.

stumpyjon

No problems, I came down the descent on White's level on a full suss stumpjumper, passed a women making her way down on a rigid hybrid. She wasn't as fast as me (I got to the bottom first), but then she didn't go over the bars 20 ft from the end and she was showing some considerable skill getting down stuff I was thinking twice about. Defo the rider not the bike that counts the most.

ravey1981

A hardtail can be ridden over any terrain. (within reason, dont go saying world cup downhill or red bull rampage etc etc at me now ) I have and ride both full suspension and hartail and both give me equal enjoyment.

There seems to be a thought these days that you "need" FS for trail centre stuff but its nonsense. A decent hartail will take you anyware. When I say decent I don't mean expensive I just mean fit for the job (no £99 specials)

Riding rocky sections on a hardtail is much easier if you carefully pick a line and try and "ride light"

Its more about the rider than the bike, but it is true that FS can flatter a clumsy rider.

Alex

Afan's brilliant fun on a hardtail!

Anonymous

ravey1981 wrote:

A hardtail can be ridden over any terrain. (within reason, dont go saying world cup downhill or red bull rampage etc etc at me now ) I have and ride both full suspension and hartail and both give me equal enjoyment.

There seems to be a thought these days that you "need" FS for trail centre stuff but its nonsense. A decent hartail will take you anyware. When I say decent I don't mean expensive I just mean fit for the job (no £99 specials)

Riding rocky sections on a hardtail is much easier if you carefully pick a line and try and "ride light"

Its more about the rider than the bike, but it is true that FS can flatter a clumsy rider.

this is about as succinct a post as i have ever read about fs vs ht even if you didnt know you were doing it. i like it.

biff55

sheepsteeth wrote:

you are going to need a fs bike.

are you lookng to start an argument ?
troublemaker.

ravey1981

sheepsteeth wrote:

you are going to need a fs bike.

Really????

I reckon a bike like this could be ridden over pretty much any terrain....

Do you disagree?

Anonymous

ravey1981 wrote:

sheepsteeth wrote:

you are going to need a fs bike.

Really????

I reckon a bike like this could be ridden over pretty much any terrain....

Do you disagree?

no way, all ht bikes are rubbish, i hate them so much that i keep one in my collection just to qualify my opinion of them.

for those less familiar with my particular brand of forum assistance, i am of course joking. i prefer fs but there is no reason why a rider couldnt tackle anything on a ht.

ravey1981

sheepsteeth wrote:

ravey1981 wrote:

A hardtail can be ridden over any terrain. (within reason, dont go saying world cup downhill or red bull rampage etc etc at me now ) I have and ride both full suspension and hartail and both give me equal enjoyment.

There seems to be a thought these days that you "need" FS for trail centre stuff but its nonsense. A decent hartail will take you anyware. When I say decent I don't mean expensive I just mean fit for the job (no £99 specials)

Riding rocky sections on a hardtail is much easier if you carefully pick a line and try and "ride light"

Its more about the rider than the bike, but it is true that FS can flatter a clumsy rider.

this is about as succinct a post as i have ever read about fs vs ht even if you didnt know you were doing it. i like it.

I didnt but thanks. This debate/argument has been going on since FS was invented and its nonsense, the stuff we ride hasn't changed that much over the last 20 years or so that I've been riding. I ride the same routes now on my FS that I used to ride rigid with cantilever brakes...I got down them fine back then and I must of been having fun or I wouldn't still be riding...

stigofthedump

I have been around most of Afan on a Steel Stumpjumper with Pace MXCD forks (65mm travel elastomers). I would say that it is much nicer on a full sus, but don't let all the hype put you off, just get out and ride.

Remember that Afan is a man made trail. Obviously it does have its big jumps e.t.c, but you can usually skirt around these. You are likely to find much more gnarley and rocky routes away from the trail centres where 'back in the day' we all used to ride. You will be surprised just what is possible especially with modern 100 - 150 mm travel forks

biff55

Pah , i remember riding over everest on a pennyfarthing with solid rubber tyres and
wearing hob-nail boots......

ravey1981

You must have seen my tracks then?

paulscutt

i've been on white's level a few times on my Specialized P3 4x bike, would rather use my new Trek R8 now though admittedly!

biff55

looks lighter than my mates yukon fx3

rhodrigwyn

I've gone round most of Afan on a genesis altitude (rs Revelations). I test rode a stumpjumper FSR elite for a day in the summer and found that I was a little faster but it was not as much of a challenge or as much fun as I didn't have to think as much (some would say a good thing!!) So I saved my money and carried on with the HT. Pay your money- take your choice.
For the cycle to work budget get a hardtail (but try a FS first)

NO help I know!!

Doombrain

I've seen loads of HT's on Afan.

In fact the last time i went i forgot to open my rear shock for about an hour.

Northwind

ravey1981 wrote:

A hardtail can be ridden over any terrain. (within reason, dont go saying world cup downhill or red bull rampage etc etc at me now )

I've ridden my hardtail down about half the Fort William WC downhill The easier part, I gather, and very very slowly, but still. And there's been hardtails in the top 200 of the Megavalanche most years, albeit big mental hardtails. Robbie Rickman put his Cotic in at about 160 IIRC, as well as racing the same bike at 4X.

I've never ridden Afan though so can't really comment on that At the end of the day, if you feel you'd be happier on a full suss, give it a crack, riding is all about what feels right.

weeksy59

Thanks for the replies gents but i think my question sort of got lost in post1.

It's more a "would i find the Afan routes a LOT nicer on a GOOD HT compared to my low spec HT ? or would the only way to notice a dramatic difference be to use a FS?"

I've ridden Afan several times now so i know it CAN be done... that's not the issue.

Mccraque

Not exactly a hardtail - but more a short travel Epic on my first trip to Afan. Got round ok, blasted up the hills and had an ok time on the way down.

Second Trip to Afan I'd upgraded to a Zesty. More travel, a lot more fun as I was a lot quicker on the way down.

Of course you can do it on both. Will you have more fun on the bigger travel machine? I reckon, yes.

That said...I still yearn for a hard tail for other riding!

joshtp

as you all know i ride a 140mm GT HT, i ride afan alot, and ues it is awsome fun! you dont need a FS, its great on a HT, its better on a beter HT as well, my dads spech Hardrock makes it feel like a chore, my aggressor makes it fun.

Willrideforcake

I first rode Afan on a very old steel (heavy as lead) HT - thoroughly loved it. Went back on the new Caldera - so much better. Lighter, faster, better forks (especially after I switched them to a set of RS Revs). A better HT may well improve your Afan experience. It certainly did mine.

bomberesque

weeksy59 wrote:

would i find the Afan routes a LOT nicer on a GOOD HT compared to my low spec HT ? .

yes, I think you would

One caveat; I'd avoid a very XC race type frame, unless you're very confident in your handling skills. 456 / inbreds seem to be made for trail centres. I ride a Pike-d Evil Sovereign there usually with the fork set at 120. I would choose that over any 150mm travel bike I've ridden for those trails tbh.

P-Jay

weeksy59 wrote:

Thanks for the replies gents but i think my question sort of got lost in post1.

It's more a "would i find the Afan routes a LOT nicer on a GOOD HT compared to my low spec HT ? or would the only way to notice a dramatic difference be to use a FS?"

I've ridden Afan several times now so i know it CAN be done... that's not the issue.

It's down to what you prefer really. Why not rent a FS from Skyline and see what you think.

All I'll say is - It's just down the road from me (sorta) and my mates an I ride there at least a couple of times a month (when we're not riding CwmC, Brechfa etc) and we all have ether 5" or 6" FS bikes. But that's the type of riders we are, we don't mind pottling up the climbs chatting at a pretty slow pace, then give it death down the fast bits. Not to mention we're all too old and fat to have dreams of being the next Steve Peat or Julien Absalon so the old "you'll pick up more skills on a HT" saying doesn't really appeal to us.

But there's no stopwatch af Afan (unless the mash-up is on)

cee

weeksy59 wrote:

Thanks for the replies gents but i think my question sort of got lost in post1.

It's more a "would i find the Afan routes a LOT nicer on a GOOD HT compared to my low spec HT ? or would the only way to notice a dramatic difference be to use a FS?"

I've ridden Afan several times now so i know it CAN be done... that's not the issue.

i have a spec hardorck and i can tell you that putting on a better fork (tora, with same amount of travel as the original rst gila....), upgrading the brakes from the shimano mechanical discs to hydraulic discs and upgrading the drivetrain for better shifting has made it a far nicer bike to ride round places like the black route at glentress, innerleithen xc and a bit of the inners dh (not the 6foot drops )....

so yes...you can notice dramatic differences between not only two different hardtails, but the same hardtail differently specced.

weeksy59

Thanks lads... some interesting food for thought there.

lawman

all trails can be riiden on ht's no problem, ive even done the fort bill dh track on my maxlight, supposidly an xc bike, just slam the seat and let it rip some nutter from dirt even did the mega avalanche on a ht, not sure im man enough for that but it shows that i can be done

silveringsurfer

You haven't said how old you are? As a 40 year old freshly returned to mtb after a 15 year lay off I love my fs bikes having come from hardtails. Yes you do have to work harder on the ups but it makes the downhills easier and quite a bit faster with my skill levels. I also find that after a few hours in the saddle I'm feeling fresher just from not getting knocked around as much. Be realistic about your skill levels - while many can get downhill courses on rigid bikes and hardtails many others have ended up with broken bones trying to do the same! It's the best time of year to get a bike of any description so have a look in the sales for a bargain. You should still be able to find a decent fs bike - especially if you can afford to top up your ctw voucher a bit. I got my Scott Genius on the the bike to work scheme and have never looked back. (Apart from at my hard tail loving mate as I wait for him to catch me at the bottom of every hill. )

weeksy59

silveringsurfer wrote:

You haven't said how old you are? As a 40 year old freshly returned to mtb after a 15 year lay off I love my fs bikes having come from hardtails. Yes you do have to work harder on the ups but it makes the downhills easier and quite a bit faster with my skill levels. I also find that after a few hours in the saddle I'm feeling fresher just from not getting knocked around as much. Be realistic about your skill levels - while many can get downhill courses on rigid bikes and hardtails many others have ended up with broken bones trying to do the same! It's the best time of year to get a bike of any description so have a look in the sales for a bargain. You should still be able to find a decent fs bike - especially if you can afford to top up your ctw voucher a bit. I got my Scott Genius on the the bike to work scheme and have never looked back. (Apart from at my hard tail loving mate as I wait for him to catch me at the bottom of every hill. )

Fractionally younger than you. I'm fairly new to MTB's only last 15 months really. I enjoy uphills and climbs more than downhills.