well done BA staff

northernneil

just voted yourself out of a job and possible pension as well by June next year

average BA staff pay £30K
average Virgin pay £14K

with also the best perks within the industry already, the company is losing £1.5M a day - where do they think are they going to get the money for salary increases from ???

GavH

Never mind salary increases, where do they think the company is getting its revenue from to just operate? For every one BA employee wanting a raise on that £30k, I'll bete there's 10 trained and another 20 wannabe cabin crew out there who'll gladly take a job with BA for even less. What a bunch of stupid, short sighted d1cks.

I reckon I could do Willie Walsh's job - "sorry folks, due to the horrendous losses suffered at Xmas becuase of the strikes, we're having to make some job cuts. I'm not going to ask for volunteers, I already have a short list. Hands up who went on strike at XMas..."

Pross

Couldn't believe all the fuss that was made when they had that voluntary month unpaid. That works out at an 8% voluntary cut. Like pretty much everyone I know in my industry I took a "voluntary" cut of 10% to try to avoid job losses, didn't hear many people making a big deal of that. Would fly Virgin over BA anytime - how do they avoid causing passengers disruption if they are only paying their people half of what BA staff get? Probably as they haven't got Union reps who think they're still a nationalised company who can hold government at ransom.

Anonymous

Don't understand last comments in markwalkers post, clarification please.

Also don't forget about the correct use of pretext when insulting.

Homophobia = a fear of homosexual individuals.

The use of the word queers and retards is unpalatable and juvenile.

:roll:

Pross

:?

fast as fupp

GavH wrote:

Never mind salary increases, where do they think the company is getting its revenue from to just operate? For every one BA employee wanting a raise on that £30k, I'll bete there's 10 trained and another 20 wannabe cabin crew out there who'll gladly take a job with BA for even less. What a bunch of stupid, short sighted d1cks.

I reckon I could do Willie Walsh's job - "sorry folks, due to the horrendous losses suffered at Xmas becuase of the strikes, we're having to make some job cuts. I'm not going to ask for volunteers, I already have a short list. Hands up who went on strike at XMas..."

its against the law to sack workers taking part in legitimate industrial action- ba's losses are already huge thats not down to the cabin crew -its down to wee willie and his predecessors

Ollieda

fast as fupp wrote:

GavH wrote:

Never mind salary increases, where do they think the company is getting its revenue from to just operate? For every one BA employee wanting a raise on that £30k, I'll bete there's 10 trained and another 20 wannabe cabin crew out there who'll gladly take a job with BA for even less. What a bunch of stupid, short sighted d1cks.

I reckon I could do Willie Walsh's job - "sorry folks, due to the horrendous losses suffered at Xmas becuase of the strikes, we're having to make some job cuts. I'm not going to ask for volunteers, I already have a short list. Hands up who went on strike at XMas..."

its against the law to sack workers taking part in legitimate industrial action- ba's losses are already huge thats not down to the cabin crew -its down to wee willie and his predecessors

Against the law to sack them for taking part.....not against the law to sack them, other reasons for sacking can always be found

tailwindhome

northernneil wrote:

just voted yourself out of a job and possible pension as well by June next year

average BA staff pay £30K
average Virgin pay £14K

with also the best perks within the industry already, the company is losing £1.5M a day - where do they think are they going to get the money for salary increases from ???

What's the source for the wages stat?

Couldn't believe all the fuss that was made when they had that voluntary month unpaid.

This is an example of manipulating figures to spin the story.

Compare the baggage handler to Willie Walsh. Whose life will be most effected by the loss of a months salary? I think Mr Walsh could manage OK. But it suits BA to trumpet that the head man has given up a months salary and all employees should volunteer to do the same.

Had they been genuine in their desire to sacrafice salary for the good of the company I would have been more impressed if all staff voluntereed to be paid the same as a baggage handler for the year

rob0070

As a BA employee all I can say to the short sighted twats that work in the air, dont ruin it for those of us who want to do a decent days work. Walk away !!

skinson

I seem to remember the last lot of folk who went on strike for more pay got slated on here too!
As I said then If it were not for people like that willing to risk their livleyhoods the working man would not be in the position we are today. We'd still be working in the feudal system! I get so fed of hearing the same old rhetoric. "should be lucky they have a job" ...." there are thousands waiting to fill their places" ...."someone else pays less" WELL SO WHAT?
If you and the rest who call these, "working class hero's" yet cry to you and yours behind closed doors then shame on you. You deserve all you get. Me, I've been a union member for 37 years and have been on many pay and condition strikes, and won better of both. If you haven't the balls to do it yourself then don't whinge and whine when others show they have what it takes to be called "working class heroes! Because as I see it, you're lower than a dwarfs bike pedal.
Dave

volvicspar

Just because theres a recession doesn't make it right for companies to take the piss (as they are doing). Most employees will never see an above average wage rise when these companies are doing well, and the pay cuts people are taking willingly today will not be given back for a long, long, long time, even if in 2010/11/12 we see enormous growth.

I personally am sick of people shouting that there are millions of people who will gladly take your job, so what ? Lets all work as they do in the third world for a dollar a month...? Most people in Britain already work too long for too little, lets not make that worse.

/Rant over

volvicspar

Uh oh, it looks like I copied skinson's post, well I didn't! But great minds think alike!

northernneil

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

northernneil wrote:

just voted yourself out of a job and possible pension as well by June next year

average BA staff pay £30K
average Virgin pay £14K

with also the best perks within the industry already, the company is losing £1.5M a day - where do they think are they going to get the money for salary increases from ???

What's the source for the wages stat?

well i got it from BBC breakfast news first site on google news is the daily hate but its well reported http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ption.html

markwalker

How is it a good thing to strike to the point of potentially finishing the employer off?

Its not just about rights but responsibilities too.

Like i said earlier in my mysteriously deleted post.

solsurf

From working at Heathrow, it's a classic case of there being a massive divide between management and staff. Both groups don't respect each other, its just sad that it's another British company that has so much promise and throwing it away.
Willie Walsh is hard nut, I think he will just keep pushing it, it's been coming for years, I think he just wanted to finalise the move to T5 first.

The reason for the higher wages is purely a hang up from being around for a long time, when flying was an upper class only thing. Many of the older American carriers suffered and suffer from this.

NWLondoner

Regardless of your feelings about Willie Walsh and the rest of the directors BA is LOOSING money hand over fist. Going on strike will only make more people switch to other airlines and NEVER come back to BA. BA relies on business and 1st class tickets to balance the books. This number of passengers has been declining for years. Virgin and alike make money on their economy and premium economy ticket sales.

Also if I recall correctly it is the Heathrow flights that they are reducing from 15 to 14 cabin crew per flight. Which is the same number that they use out of their Gatwick flights?


Times have now changed and the perks that BA staff are used to are no longer sustainable.

When BA go bust Virgin and alike and alike will snap up the routes straight away.

tebbit

To the earlier "working class heroes" comments how many cabin staff would describe themselves as working class? It is redolent of the old them and us attitude, I worked in places where that attitude existed and it is cr*p, I have also worked in places where it was just us. In the "us" companies people earned more, stayed longer and in most cases lasted longer than the places with the divides.

The worst small builder I ever worked for was a "socialist" former miner, who allegedly believed in the rights of the working man, all complete b*ll*cks, the best a died in the wool Tory who believed in the "us" scenario.

Companies which do not have the support of their staff will go bust, so will companies that do not support and reward their staff properly.

mrushton

This is the same BA who a few years ago only wanted business and first class passengers as economy travellers were seen as beneath the airlines standard. Then along come Ejet/Ryanair etc who went for the common denominator. As usual, lots of money at the top end but the cabin staff (who are the face of BA) get shafted.

shinyhelmut

rob0070 wrote:

As a BA employee all I can say to the short sighted twats that work in the air, dont ruin it for those of us who want to do a decent days work. Walk away !!

There are some of us who work in the air who aren't overly impressed by the actions of UNITE and BASSA.

Every other group within the company has made their required savings targets, either through changed working practises or reduced wages (in my case a bit of both.)

BA has to adapt if it is to remain in business.

Pross

volvicspar wrote:

Just because theres a recession doesn't make it right for companies to take the wee-wee (as they are doing). Most employees will never see an above average wage rise when these companies are doing well, and the pay cuts people are taking willingly today will not be given back for a long, long, long time, even if in 2010/11/12 we see enormous growth.

I personally am sick of people shouting that there are millions of people who will gladly take your job, so what ? Lets all work as they do in the third world for a dollar a month...? Most people in Britain already work too long for too little, lets not make that worse.

/Rant over

So are you saying that they take real term pay cuts year in / year out :? I'm one of those who has taken a 10% paycut voluntarily in order to save the company having to make large cuts or worse(a third of our work was in the housing sector which dried up over night and our main client who gives us about 40% of our work took advantage of the recession to force all their consultants into a 40% pay cut). People have to look around them instead of just thinking for themselves. Apparently the strikes are related to proposed job cuts rather than pay so how can the stated aim of disrupting buisness over 12 days at one of the busiest time of year help? Walsh doesn't help when he says he's not prepared to back down - these things should be handled by dialogue in private rather than both sides manipulating the media to their advantage.

jedster

Most people in Britain already work too long for too little, lets not make that worse.

Yes let's just wish our way to a brighter kinder future when everyone can sit around on their behinds and live like a Russian oligarch.

The fact is that most people in Britain have been living in a fantasy land for the last five years enjoying a standard of living that we can't afford fuelled by a bubble in tax revenues (from a part of the financial sector that was making essentially fake profits that are not coming back) and borrowing, both Government and consumer. None of this is sustainable.

At the moment a lot of people are still in denial because:
1 mortgage rates are unsustainably low
2 tax rises haven't yet bitten
3 public sector spending cuts have been postponed until after the election

It is going to really tough. And there is no way that we will have enough surplus cash to pay people well above market rates.

For BA in particular, if they dont cut their staff costs then they ticket prices will be too high versus their competitors. In this case do you honestly thing people will
a) pay a higher price to fly BA to support those hardworking cabin crew or
b) fly Virgin instead

Personally I reckon b. But hey, I could be wrong :roll:

In which case Virgin will create lots of jobs paying 14k and BA will cut lots of jobs paying 30k. I can see how that is in the interest of BA's cabin crew... :roll:

The attitude that "we deserve more for working less" is hopeless wishful thinking. People need to get real.

J

volvicspar

So are you saying that they take real term pay cuts year in / year out :? I'm one of those who has taken a 10% paycut voluntarily in order to save the company .

Do you expect your company to give that 10% + a normal pay rise back when/if the good times return ? I doubt they will - it will just be an extra 10% profit for the company.

Yes pretty much, against inflation not that many people get an above inflation pay rise if they get one at all. What gets me is companies that are in profit asking their staff to take pay cuts "because of the recession" in order to protect their shareholder / top knobs etc.

A few (don't know how many) of those people on 12 - 14 K will have their income subsided by the government through tax credits and other benefits. Just because virgin are paying their staff 14K doesn't make it right.

In the end though, we are royally fucked whatever happens.

pat1cp

solsurf wrote:

From working at Heathrow, it's a classic case of there being a massive divide between management and staff. Both groups don't respect each other, its just sad that it's another British company that has so much promise and throwing it away.
Willie Walsh is hard nut, I think he will just keep pushing it, it's been coming for years, I think he just wanted to finalise the move to T5 first.

The reason for the higher wages is purely a hang up from being around for a long time, when flying was an upper class only thing. Many of the older American carriers suffered and suffer from this.

Sums up the whole situation.

They'll all end up in the dole queue they way they're going. Striking at a time to cause the most disruption does not win you public support. A rethink is needed I think.

Unite seem to have become quite a gun ho outfit and call people out at the earliest opportunity.

Cressers

So what would you do if you were in the employees situation? Just sit back and let the company tear up your terms and conditions?

pat1cp

Cressers wrote:

So what would you do if you were in the employees situation? Just sit back and let the company tear up your terms and conditions?

I wouldn't go on strike over the Xmas holidays !!!! Just to create as much grief for the paying public as possible !!!! :x

Cressers

If not then, when?

disgruntledgoat

pat1cp wrote:

Cressers wrote:

So what would you do if you were in the employees situation? Just sit back and let the company tear up your terms and conditions?

I wouldn't go on strike over the Xmas holidays !!!! Just to create as much grief for the paying public as possible !!!! :x

Precisely, ina customer facing role the main people you hurt when you strike are your customers. Doing this for nearly 2 weeks, at your busy time is not a smart move for my money.

Unite tried the same thing in our place, we got a 5% pay rise last year and were offered 3% over 2 years this time round... Perfectly fair to my mind, new owners, tough times etc. Not according to some pr!ck in the union office who wanted to make a name fo rhimself "STRIKE!"

pat1cp

the new year ??? I don't know, never's a good time. But over the Xmas holiday ???

The company is not going to survive with the current cost levels, things have to change.

I appreciate both sides have agendas, but at the minute they've locked horns and that's that !!!

Bikerbaboon

Cressers wrote:

So what would you do if you were in the employees situation? Just sit back and let the company tear up your terms and conditions?

Nope but when your company is bleading out money every day and needs to save on costs, planning industrial action that will damage the companys income and maywell lead to the company folding may not be the best plan.

BA are realy upagainst the wall and need to act or go bust infighting is not going to help.

If BA goes bust every one looses that works for BA or for a subcontractor for BA.

the company i was working for went bust last year. Not made redundant just bust. There was no sorry to see you go here 1 months pay it was just blam your gone. I had to wait for the goverment to sort out holiday pay and notice pay thats over 6 months wait for pay the company owed me. also went bust just before payday so i was hammered.
taken a new job with no perks and a 10% paycut why? because its a job and it pays. still looking for another but i would never strike in a way that alot of unions are doing to cause disruption at a time of year that we dont need and in a financal climate that alot of companys are struggleing.

Buss driver strike as they are only getting a 1% pay rise... when do thay do it on the 2 saterdays b4 christmass. leading to less people getting into leeds.. so less highstreet sales... already struggleing shops going under. More people on the dole as shops close.

Its a tough time and we are going to have to knuckle down to get through it.

daviesee

I don't know all the facts but from personal experience I can safely say that a 10% cut is better than a 100% cut and that is the dark future of BA.
The company is making massive loses so how will striking during a busy period, losing even more money help the future of the company, or the employees?

redddraggon

They don't sound like an intelligent lot these BA people.