Check over your shoulder.

Mikefule

I saved a cyclist from injury today.

I was on my 800cc motorcycle on the inner ring road. Not too busy, and I could easily have been doing the 30 mph limit or, to be honest, a bit more.

Ahead of me in the left, a cyclist, head down, spinning along, not a care in the world, and one of those dangerously ineffective little bar end mirrors .(I had one once).

Something tells me, because I'm a cyclist, that he wasn't keeping a proper lookout. I rolled off the throttle little, started to move to my right to give him road space, and, hey presto he drifted to his right into my lane. If I had not already moved a foot or two to my right he would have hit me.

He never looked, and didn't seem to know what he'd done after he'd done it.

Always check over your shoulder. Every time. And don't always blame the other road user.

bigmat

What? You overtook a cyclist at a safe distance? Well done you, motorcyclists could learn a lot from your actions....

Wallace1492

:shock: Jesus, a considerate biker!! :shock:

FixedNewbie

Totally agree on this one, the Shoulder check is miles better than any crappy mirror and also give the drivers an additional clue as to what might be coming up i.e. i always go for an over the shoulder check approaching the tight traffic islands.

johnnyqif

police motorcyclists call looking over their shoulder before a manoeuver the "lifesaver
dont have to wonder why

shoulder_of_orion

did someone say shoulder?

downfader

Thats one of the reasons I tell people to give us space - you never know how competent or experienced the cyclist is and they can sometimes drift (the wind can make you do that too)

PedalPedant

johnnyqif wrote:

police motorcyclists call looking over their shoulder before a manoeuver the "lifesaver
dont have to wonder why

It's referred to as a life saver by most motorcycle intructors and testers as well. The motorcycle test is very hot on them, after carrying out an emergency stop you have to check over *both* shoulders before pulling away or you'll fail that part of the test.

Interestingly learner motorcyclists are also taught to check over their left shoulder before making a left turn specifically to check for cyclists that may be coming up on the inside. Although that's not to say that many of them keep this up after passing the test


PP

pigeon42

the Shoulder check is miles better than any crappy mirror and also give the drivers an additional clue as to what might be coming up

I completely agree - I've found a number of considerate drivers will, when the traffic's heavy, hang back to let me out into the road to make a right turn/roundabout if they see me checking over my shoulder (either that or they think I'm an unpredictable cyclist so keep clear - but either way it has the desired effect!)

simple_salmon

I agree with the OP BUT isn't it possible the cyclist moved after he'd seen your manouver in his mirror? i.e. he saw you move and knew there was space?

Just being DA y'know.

Clever Pun

Wallace1492 wrote:

:shock: Jesus, a considerate biker!! :shock:

that's unfair, people always remember the one cretin not the 10 guys who pass without incident


It's called the life safer for a reason

Clever Pun

PedalPedant wrote:

johnnyqif wrote:

police motorcyclists call looking over their shoulder before a manoeuver the "lifesaver
dont have to wonder why

It's referred to as a life saver by most motorcycle intructors and testers as well. The motorcycle test is very hot on them, after carrying out an emergency stop you have to check over *both* shoulders before pulling away or you'll fail that part of the test.

Interestingly learner motorcyclists are also taught to check over their left shoulder before making a left turn specifically to check for cyclists that may be coming up on the inside. Although that's not to say that many of them keep this up after passing the test


PP

hardly any car driver MSM anymore

DonDaddyD

Mikefule wrote:

I saved a cyclist from injury today.

I was on my 800cc motorcycle on the inner ring road. Not too busy, and I could easily have been doing the 30 mph limit or, to be honest, a bit more.

Ahead of me in the left, a cyclist, head down, spinning along, not a care in the world, and one of those dangerously ineffective little bar end mirrors .(I had one once).

Something tells me, because I'm a cyclist, that he wasn't keeping a proper lookout. I rolled off the throttle little, started to move to my right to give him road space, and, hey presto he drifted to his right into my lane. If I had not already moved a foot or two to my right he would have hit me.

He never looked, and didn't seem to know what he'd done after he'd done it.

Always check over your shoulder. Every time. And don't always blame the other road user.

Chapeau.

And

+1 for raising this here with cyclists.

Some (Cyclists) do need to take more responsibility for making sure they aren't a danger to themselves and others when on the road. I get sick and tired of some cyclists trying to shirk responsiblity onto other motorists.

gtvlusso

Mikefule wrote:

I saved a cyclist from injury today.

I was on my 800cc motorcycle on the inner ring road. Not too busy, and I could easily have been doing the 30 mph limit or, to be honest, a bit more.

Ahead of me in the left, a cyclist, head down, spinning along, not a care in the world, and one of those dangerously ineffective little bar end mirrors .(I had one once).

Something tells me, because I'm a cyclist, that he wasn't keeping a proper lookout. I rolled off the throttle little, started to move to my right to give him road space, and, hey presto he drifted to his right into my lane. If I had not already moved a foot or two to my right he would have hit me.

He never looked, and didn't seem to know what he'd done after he'd done it.

Always check over your shoulder. Every time. And don't always blame the other road user.

+1 - the experience gained by riding hairy motorbikes for the last 20 years has certainly developed me as a cyclist - shoulder check a plenty when manouvering (anywhere!) and the look/plan 100 yards ahead. Hurts more being knocked off a motorbike too!

Also have no fear of filtering down the middle/right of the road and tipping a bike in on a sharp/fast corner!

iain_j

simple_salmon wrote:

I agree with the OP BUT isn't it possible the cyclist moved after he'd seen your manouver in his mirror? i.e. he saw you move and knew there was space?

Just being DA y'know.

Yes but the cyclist should still check over his shoulder before moving. It would be dangerous to assume the "space" is still there.

solsurf

Yep look over your shoulder and use your ears, they can tell you a lot, reving engine, idea of how close.

I also think the more you cycle the more your Jedi forces come into play, god knows we need it.

UndercoverElephant

To be fair to the cyclist, I often can tell using my ears that the nearest car/bike is hanging back a bit, and has been for a while. A quick glimpse to the side is enough to check for the silent types a lot of the time. That said, well done you, for being a considerate motorist.

BentMikey

Well done to the OP!!! And yes I agree, there are so many cyclists who don't bother to look and rely on their hearing. Car drivers hate us doing that - look back and negotiate, and become more human. Drivers will treat you much better as a result.

RedGT

When I did motorcycle lessons not for nothing it was called the 'life saver', and I
still do it when driving a car. I'm still surprised though how many experienced looking cyclist don't seem to bother.

chuckcork

I look over my shoulder all the time, even when walking on the footpath if I change direction.

Guess thats what having had a motorcycle for a few years (before I got into cycling and sold the motorbike as a result!) does to you...of course I have nearly run into the back of vehicles in front that have stopped suddenly while looking behind but thats another story.

iain_j

chuckcork wrote:

I look over my shoulder all the time, even when walking on the footpath if I change direction.

Same here. I don't know if it's a carry-over from cycling or if pedestrians have gotten that bad now :roll:

Whether on foot, bike or car I don't take anything for granted now regarding watching where people are going / have they seen where I'm going. My crash last year was a result of too much watching the traffic alongside/behind and not noticing the fella in front had stopped :shock:

Mikefule

Well, thanks for the mainly positive response.

My background is as a bicyclist who rode regularly with the CTC and Tandem Club for years, and who commuted daily for many years. I still bicycle occasionally for pleasure and local journeys (single speed Pearson Touché with straight carbon bars) and I ride unicycle mainly cross country, but also occasional medium length road journeys.

As a motorcyclist I was taught the "life saver" and I do it when driving a car, riding a bicycle, or unicycle, or even changing direction when walking. After all, when you're walking along the footpath, you never know when a silent but deadly bicycle is creeping up ready to swoop and take your elbow off...

My other big bugbear is idiot pedestrians who believe that the fact that they are texting or talking on their mobiles somehow makes their safety my responsibility. Here's me on a big yellow motorbike, headlight on, and wearing a dayglo jacket, and here's them not noticing me as they step out without even looking. I wear an open face helmet and it doesn't half surprise them when they suddenly hear me talking to them.

I am very pro-cycling and pro-cyclist, but I have to say that riding a bicycle doesn't make someone a cyclist in my book.

Mikefule

To clarify my closing sentence above: a cyclist rides his bike with courtesy and care, whether she is an old lady on a shopper, or he's a young bloke on a mountain bike. Someone riding a bike the wrong way up a one way street, leaping off pavements into the flow of the traffic, jumping red lights, or swooping along a crowded footpath is just a person on a bike. If you wouldn't like someone to do it in a car, don't do it on a bike.

iain_j

Mikefule wrote:

My other big bugbear is idiot pedestrians who believe that the fact that they are texting or talking on their mobiles somehow makes their safety my responsibility. Here's me on a big yellow motorbike, headlight on, and wearing a dayglo jacket, and here's them not noticing me as they step out without even looking. I wear an open face helmet and it doesn't half surprise them when they suddenly hear me talking to them.

I can only agree, the idea being pointed out to me by a pedestrian not long ago. She walked straight off the pavement in front of me causing me to brake and swerve. Her companions who had more sense, still on the pavement, shouted something to her and she mouthed back "well he's got brakes, he can slow down can't he" :roll:

Mikefule wrote:

I am very pro-cycling and pro-cyclist, but I have to say that riding a bicycle doesn't make someone a cyclist in my book.

Exactly. A bike, for me, used to be just a way of getting from A to B a bit faster than walking, and cheaper than the bus. I had some awareness and rode safely, but didn't consider myself a cyclist - I had no interest in bikes or cycling as such.

BentMikey

Mikefule wrote:

To clarify my closing sentence above: a cyclist rides his bike with courtesy and care, whether she is an old lady on a shopper, or he's a young bloke on a mountain bike. Someone riding a bike the wrong way up a one way street, leaping off pavements into the flow of the traffic, jumping red lights, or swooping along a crowded footpath is just a person on a bike. If you wouldn't like someone to do it in a car, don't do it on a bike.

I can't agree with this bit. Ride a bike and you're a cyclist. Anything else is heading in the direction of elitism and snobbery.

Mikefule

If riding with courtesy and consideration for other road users, and due regard for my own safety, and expecting the same of other road users makes me an elitist snob, I accept the title without quibble or demur.

My 70 year old mother is afraid to walk down the pavement outside her house because of people on bicycles riding full pelt where it is illegal to ride at all.

iain_j

BentMikey wrote:

Mikefule wrote:

To clarify my closing sentence above: a cyclist rides his bike with courtesy and care, whether she is an old lady on a shopper, or he's a young bloke on a mountain bike. Someone riding a bike the wrong way up a one way street, leaping off pavements into the flow of the traffic, jumping red lights, or swooping along a crowded footpath is just a person on a bike. If you wouldn't like someone to do it in a car, don't do it on a bike.

I can't agree with this bit. Ride a bike and you're a cyclist. Anything else is heading in the direction of elitism and snobbery.

Technically yes. But I think Mikefule is distinguishing between someone who rides a bike with awareness of a cyclists's rights, rules and responsibilties on the road, and someone who doesn't. Call it elitism on my part but there are a lot of people who ride a bike who don't have a clue as to road safety.

chuckcork

iain_j wrote:

I can only agree, the idea being pointed out to me by a pedestrian not long ago. She walked straight off the pavement in front of me causing me to brake and swerve. Her companions who had more sense, still on the pavement, shouted something to her and she mouthed back "well he's got brakes, he can slow down can't he" :roll: .

She also has eyes and possibly even a brain. She possibly coud use them too. Similarly you have fists and hard pointy bits called elbows that can make a dent in an otherwise pretty face (aka a knocking some sense in this bit seems to be missed with some)...really wish now instead of avoiding the stupid 20 year old who thought it was hilarious to stand in front of me in a cycle lane, and then move to stand in front of me again when I tried to avoid her, that I'd applied a bit of fist/elbow to face. Might make the experience a little less funny and bring her into the real world of being less than completely stupid and understanding there are consequences that mummy and daddy can't American Express your way out of.

Outside Kingston College BTW. Entry requirements must be really, really low if they let people that thick in.

Also why I now avoid those cycle lanes on footpaths if I can possbly avoid them.

chuckcork

iain_j wrote:

Technically yes. But I think Mikefule is distinguishing between someone who rides a bike with awareness of a cyclists's rights, rules and responsibilties on the road, and someone who doesn't. Call it elitism on my part but there are a lot of people who ride a bike who don't have a clue as to road safety.

I agree. Just like you don't call one some 15 year old whose just stolen a car and is driving it while drunk/doped to the eyeballs on some "police camera shoot'em" TV show a "Motorist", and then hold them up to be representative of all drivers...mind you some seem to be like that when sober and licenced and in their mid 30's!

iain_j

chuckcork wrote:

Similarly you have fists and hard pointy bits called elbows that can make a dent in an otherwise pretty face (aka a knocking some sense in this bit seems to be missed with some)...really wish now instead of avoiding the stupid 20 year old who thought it was hilarious to stand in front of me in a cycle lane, and then move to stand in front of me again when I tried to avoid her, that I'd applied a bit of fist/elbow to face. Might make the experience a little less funny and bring her into the real world of being less than completely stupid and understanding there are consequences that mummy and daddy can't American Express your way out of.

But she'd probably have no hesitations against reporting you for assault / cycling recklessly :roll:

shouldbeinbed

+1 for being a considerate motorist but why the antipathy to mirrors, do you have them on your motorbike? why not a bike as well? as a way of adding to the sensory input and giving a quick back view when not making a manouvre.

not to replace 'the lifesaver' (catchy epithet) but to enhance its effectiveness so you're not spending unneccesary time looking backwards but are still fully aware of your surroundings at all times. Surely a good pre-requisite for your subsequent definition of a cyclist.

granted many mirrors are complete pony and people will get a bad one, not like it and write them all off as useless and ineffectual. rather a sweeping and unfair generalisation. I've gone through many before I found the decent ones that give a good clear and solid image.