Pre Budget report

Anonymous

I think its a con, what do you all think ?

STEFANOS4784

Obviously! Always is, from the scraps i've heard from various places i gather that benefits are going up :x , NI is going up :x, but any tax increases wont affect people on a 'modest income' (less than 20k), that's not a modest income, it's a sh1te income IMO.

Don't know why i even bother listeneing, greedy feckers, think they're so clever, how abou a restuctured pay scheme for MP's? Pay rise more like, they can all rot in hell as far as i'm concerned(i'm not bitter honest ) :evil:

TheStone

Don't underestimate how much trouble the UK is in.
Bad times ahead. 5% more tax and 15% less public spending for many years to come.

STEFANOS4784

5% More tax? Only heard bits and bobs here and there, which tax is going up 5% or is that spread across all so the total amount of tax paid over all will be 5% more :?
If my income tax goes up 5% i'd may as well go on the dole

gabriel959

All I can see is that a lot of public sector employees are going to be disappointed in the comming years. It wouldn't even suprise me if they made loads of people redundant in the public sector and also raised taxes to something like 30%.

The level of deficit this country is carrying is stagering.

deebizzle

The level of deficit this country is carrying is stagering.

True... but not as bad as these places...

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo ... P&grp=0&a=

I think people get overpanicked about the debt - it isn't ideal and of course it could be better but Japan has debt over 200% of it's GDP... and the world hasn't caved in there.



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STEFANOS4784

Are there any countrys that aren't in debt? :?

disgruntledgoat

deebizzle wrote:

The level of deficit this country is carrying is stagering.

True... but not as bad as these places...

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo ... P&grp=0&a=

I think people get overpanicked about the debt - it isn't ideal and of course it could be better but Japan has debt over 200% of it's GDP... and the world hasn't caved in there.



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No... But it has been in and out of recession since the early 1990s. And what was their policy to get them out of it the first time? Oh yeah! Borrow loads and "invest" it!

TheStone

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

5% More tax? Only heard bits and bobs here and there, which tax is going up 5% or is that spread across all so the total amount of tax paid over all will be 5% more :?
If my income tax goes up 5% i'd may as well go on the dole

They've not mentioned any of this yet. Have left it for tories to do.

The numbers are quite simple.
Tax: 500bn
Interest 30bn
Public Spending 670bn

Tax and spending both up slightly next year and with and end of QE the interest will
increase (lets say 50bn)

So just to balance the books, 15% more tax (across everything) and 20% less spending
(agian NHS, benefits etc)

Tax: 575bn
Interest 50bn
Spending 535bn

Now, 15% more tax isn't possible. There is a level, close to where we are, where higher
tax leads to less money received - people leave, work less or not at all.

So, if we can get away with 5% more tax, we need to cut spending by about 30%!!!!

Tax: 525bn
Interest: 50bn
Spending 469bn

And that's just to balance!!!! What about paying off the debt? What about the 1tr in
unfunded public sector pensions? What about PFI?

Total and utter mess.

STEFANOS4784

Makes my 500 pound debt on my credit card a little less dawnting


So, again, are any countries not in debt :?

eh

So, again, are any countries not in debt

Yes mainly ones with lots of oil, without looking it up I'd suspect Norway and Saudi for starters.

STEFANOS4784

So the goal is clear, invade these countries! Where's Thatcher when you need her


I'm not that bothered really but TheStone certainly paints a grim picture.

bompington

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

So the goal is clear, invade these countries! Where's Thatcher when you need her

Remind me, which oil-rich countries was it Thatcher invaded?

zanes

bompington wrote:

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

So the goal is clear, invade these countries! Where's Thatcher when you need her

Remind me, which oil-rich countries was it Thatcher invaded?

Argentina?

STEFANOS4784

Think of all the corned beef we could have lost
My point was that she'd be more likely to do something other than just kissing ass and following like a sheep

PS don't take things i say to literally, my sense of humor is gigantic and rediculously stupid, don't reply if you don't like it


My theory is if you can't laugh then may as well chuck youself offa bridge cos everything else is pretty sh1te

TheStone

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

So, again, are any countries not in debt :?

Most countries have debt, but I'm not sure anyone is a bad as us. (maybe Japan).

Our deficit is the biggest. Out total debt is smaller than most of Europe, but we have a lot
less public companies (i.e. transport, housing, utilities and pfi are all off the govt balance
sheet - a bit like Enron)

The total public and private debt in the uk is massive.

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

TheStone certainly paints a grim picture

We could get some growth. In which case the tax will increase and the spending decrease.
But we're not gonna get that much growth and it will take a long time.

disgruntledgoat

I think the worst thing for me is the fact that the Govt. still won't be honest about the scale of the deficit, how much they plan to spend next year and on what or even about the scale of the recession, the 4.75% mentioned yesterday was measured as the "global" rate of decline where as Britian itself is somewhere north of 5%.

The idea that we can grow from -5% to +3.1% in two years in a dangerous lie.

Yesterdays PBR was just scorched earth for the next govt. As somebody entioned up the thread once said "The problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money"

daviesee

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

Think of all the corned beef we could have lost
My point was that she'd be more likely to do something other than just kissing ass and following like a sheep

PS don't take things i say to literally, my sense of humor is gigantic and rediculously stupid, don't reply if you don't like it


My theory is if you can't laugh then may as well chuck youself offa bridge cos everything else is pretty sh1te

There may be a lot of oil under the Falklands. Want to reconsider the point now?

It wasn't a pre budget report, it was a pre election report.
These guys are only interested in maintaining their own jobs, not the long term future :evil:

disgruntledgoat

Worryingly Davie, they see the two as th same thing, all my experience with Labour poltiicos (i can't speak for any others) is that to their minds they are so self-evidently "nice" and "right" about everything, that not to vote for them is to vote agaist ones own interests. Thus, if you are considering doing so you need to be given a push to do the "right" and "progressive" thing, for your own sake.

As such nothing is too low, dirty or bizarre to protect their position. They're like the Blues Brothers "they can't stop us, we're on a mission from god"

I used to work with them, I apologise profusely. They are scary, scary people.

bagpusscp

There was a good disscussion on this forum before the credit crunch about the level of personal debt in this country and else were.Strange that the man in the street could see it coming{or in this case the net} and the goverment could not ,or it did not want to.It has long been a Labour party dream to nationalize the banks! Sadly it has cost the nation dear. :evil: The rush by building societies to become banks during the Thatcher term lit the fuse,of poor lending to business and ventures into the unknown.
G Browns comment a few years ago that he had broken the cycle of boom and bust must huant him every night .He had over seen the sellling of the nations gold reserve when its value was at its lowest.

Bust

disgruntledgoat

Ah but bagpuss he explained earlier this year that he'd ended "Tory boom and bust", it's different y'see?

northernneil

do you know what gets my goat about all of this - once again the middle men, the honest citizens of this country get screwed.

Those living on benefits quite comfortably and happily going to the pub every day with no intention of doing anything about it have woken up today with absolutely no effect on their daily lives at all.

Income support tax now does not even cover the amount paid out in benefits .... scandalous

Cressers

That reply says more about you that it does about people on benefit.

bagpusscp

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Ah but bagpuss he explained earlier this year that he'd ended "Tory boom and bust", it's different y'see?

Of course it is ..Labour never do anything by hallf ......best way to make us all equal ...is saddle us all with debt....Tony saw it coming and pi$$ed off quick.You have got to hand it to him :x

daviesee

bagpusscp wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Ah but bagpuss he explained earlier this year that he'd ended "Tory boom and bust", it's different y'see?

Of course it is ..Labour never do anything by hallf ......best way to make us all equal ...is saddle us all with debt....Tony saw it coming and pi$$ed off quick.You have got to hand it to him :x

Credit to Tony!

He does know when to leave a party before having to do the dishes :evil:

bagpusscp

[Credit to Tony!

---

He does know when to leave a party before having to do the dishes :evil:[/quote]

There be rony in those words

Between him and mate Bush what a screw up

northernneil

Cressers wrote:

That reply says more about you that it does about people on benefit.

tosh,

if you think the benfits system in this country is fit for purpose then you are an idiot with head in the sand, just this year I was on holiday in cyprus with a guy who cant work and hasnt done because of his back for years.

He enjoyed throwing the kids around and riding the quad bike he hired, he had a great holiday .....

this kind of thing clouds your views

STEFANOS4784

+1 Northern Neil, to many leaches, plenty of work people could do if they chose, i know a few peopled (my own brother included, unfortunately) who are quite capable of working in supermarket or whatever but they think themselves above such things so just sit in their free flats(granted they're sh1tty and in horrible areas) drinking the cheapest beer they can find and mopaning that it aint fair. I've worked in a meat factory on minimum wage and believe me there is no worse job so i have a right to tell them to get off their lazy @sses :evil:

teagar

Finally, a newspaper columnist who says what I've been saying on the issue of having a large deficit:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -recession

Economies need spending to get out of a recession. Not saving. Saving is entirely the problem (on a macro scale). Deficits are not a pressing short or medium term problem with macro economies, as far as I am aware. Maco economics doesn't behave like personal private economics, so you shouldn't treat it as such.


As for people complaining about people claiming benefit. I've said it elsewhere on here - loopholes in top-earner taxes are vastly bigger than the amount spent on unemployment benefit. By a ridiculous proportion.

tebbit

Teagear, you used the word "earner" that is the difference, some people who earn a very high wage may not be worth their salt, but the operative word is "earn", the big complaint about benefits isn't the poor sod who is being bailed out by the state, but the professional unemployed. The old couple who supported the BNP because their twenty five year old grandson had never had a job since leaving school, blamed imigrants not the fact that their grandson was a scrote, who didn't do a days work because he didn't have to.

As said before we are about to live in interesting times, however more people make money in a down turn than do in the boom times.

GavH

Well I'm giving this country precisely 7 years and 9 months, at which point my employer gives me a nice pension. Then I'm sorely considering plying the same trade in Australia where the cost of living is less, weather better and precisely the same job available with better pay.