Bike Carrier Hell

trickbooter

Okay, so we (me and my partner) own the worlds smallest flat in London. We have no garage so I have three bikes in the apartment. We also own a Nissan Micra, a very manly town car.

By now you get the idea, very bijou living.

So, I need to bike rack to cart my gear around. I did have a Thule 591 Pro Ride which worked well for my Trek Remedy. But then I bought an Iron Horse Sunday, it its jacked up suspension and shock arrangement means the 591 can't even reach the downtube.

So, loads of research, and I opted for a Westfalia Portilo bike towball rack. It folds up into a small enough unit to put in the boot, ideal as I don't really want to lug a 20kg rack up the stairs to my flat, and then find somewhere to keep it (our place is really small). I am meant to be having a towball fitted on Monday (2 days from now). I have just received the Portilo. Man it is fiddly. Getting the arms in the right position to load the bikes, not to mention I think it is far more suited to dutch town bikes than my dh / trail bikes. Also, the tube clamps expect the bike to have round tube, so my mates 2006 faith is never going to fit. It seems like £330 for an imperfect solution, add the cost of the towbar fit and things get really expensive. To add insult to injury, I now find out the nose weight for a Micra is a poxy 50kg. so it'll be impossible to carry two dh bikes + rack weight at < 50kg.

I am at my wits end, how hard can getting a bike rack be!

I have seen the Thule 594 sidearm (American distribution only), and have found someone willing to ship it, but our car is three door, and I am unconvinced at hoisted two dh bikes onto roof bars that are only 40cm apart.

There seems to be such a staggering lack of info on the web. I really want to see examples of racks loaded up with crazy bike frame types, to demonstrate they work.

Any advice, anyone?

alfablue

What about a Thule Ride-On 2 bike towbar mounted rack? I have used one, very easy and straightforward, includes electrics, lights and number plate board, takes bikes up to 15kg each, fits to tow ball in about 2 minutes, will probably fit in the boot, costs only £99.

alfablue

By the way, the Thule Ride-On uses webbing "luggage" straps to secure the bikes so any tubes should fit (one strap secures each wheel, one secures frame to upright).

trickbooter

It is only rated as 30kg load - which wouldn't lug 2 dh bikes.

The best i have found so far is an Atera Strada 2 Sport. The only reason I went for the Portilo was its ability to fold down. Storage is a real problem.

Ideally I want a rack the folds down enough to leave in the hall way, weighs 10kg (to allow 2x 20kg for dh bikes, and that mounts / unmounts quickly.

alfablue

oh, dh bikes are THAT heavy! :?

trickbooter

My Sunday is 19.1 Kg's according to the specs (haven't weighed it though). And my mate has a 2006 faith - that weighs about the same.

trickbooter

http://www.thule.com/en-GB/US/Products/BikeCarriers/Hitch/18320.aspx

This is totally the best bike rack ever - with the exception of the fact that US Thule have nothing to do with Europe Thule and vice-versa, and the US tow hitches are entirely different from UK ones. Curses.

rudedog

trickbooter wrote:

It is only rated as 30kg load - which wouldn't lug 2 dh bikes.

The best i have found so far is an Atera Strada 2 Sport. The only reason I went for the Portilo was its ability to fold down. Storage is a real problem.

Ideally I want a rack the folds down enough to leave in the hall way, weighs 10kg (to allow 2x 20kg for dh bikes, and that mounts / unmounts quickly.

the 3 bike version is rated up to 45kg and is only 20 quid more (£120)

http://www.roofrackshop.co.uk/Car-Produ ... 0698p.aspx

belugabob

I also have the 3 bike towbar mounted Thule carrier and can highly recommend it.
As rudedog said, it's rated at 45kg, so could be a good incentive to get rid of the Nissan Micra (Like you needed an excuse to do that!)
It works well with just about any size/shape bike frame, as it uses straps, rather than clamps, at all fixing points.

P.S. The carrier can be got for £104 from http://www.towequipe.co.uk/itemlist.htm ... 4wodqmqXpQ

trickbooter

Thanks for the advice, but the single bike limit for that rack 2 or 3 bike version is 15kg.

Has anyone got any experience of a twinny load ergo?

belugabob

That's what it says on the roofracksop website, but neither the Thule website or the manual (Which I have in front of me now) mentions anythings about a per-bike limit.
I'd feel safe with a 3 bike carrier and 2 19 kg bikes.

Maybe somebody with an engineering background could comment?

The Rookie

http://www.maxxraxx.co.uk/Help/help_how_many_bikes.html

Rack for 2 bikes 12Kg, so just keep you 'on' the 50kg limit, also as they do mounts that bolt to tow ball base it reduces the cantilever effect on the ball.

Simon

Mrs Toast

I also have the 3 bike towbar mounted Thule carrier and can highly recommend it.
As rudedog said, it's rated at 45kg, so could be a good incentive to get rid of the Nissan Micra (Like you needed an excuse to do that!)

I've got the 3 bike towbar mounted Thule carrier...on my Nissan Micra. It can comfortably carry a Meta, a Prophet and a Stumpjumper FSR.

I say 'comfortably', it's just within the limits, and it hasn't snapped the car in half yet.

duncanw

Don't be too worried about the nose weight limit of 50kg as it's in reference to actually towing a trailer which is completely different to sitting a couple of bikes on the back. Also use your common sense, if you haven't got 3 fully grown adults in the back of your car you shouldn't have any worries. The actual structure of the car which the towbar is bolted to will easily be able to take over 100kg. Another thing, the towing of a trailer, trailer tent or a very small caravan will put a hell of a lot more stress and strain on your car and towbar than a couple of bikes no matter how heavy they are, as long as they're not made out of lead that is.

trickbooter

Thanks for the replies guys / gals. I went for a Thule 908. The way the grabby arms work look good to me.

I asked the tow hitch guy about the nose weight, he didn't seem that bothered either. So i@ll be putting about 55kg on a 50kg nose weight all told - that's not bad.

silveringsurfer

Hmmm - If your not worried then you've clearly never watched the herbie films?
Remember you've a front wheel drive car and you may well have less weight over the front wheels making steering light and prone to oversteer. The guy fitting the towball wouldn't worry - he's not driving the damn thing and it's your responsibility how you load it. As said you need to make sure you have a couple of guys in the front to balance the weight and take it very easily until you get a feel of differences in the way the car handles. It's not fair to compare it to a trailer or caravan which carries the vast bulk of it's own weight and not the towing car. We've all seen the results of getting the balance wrong on a caravan - bits of caravan and bedding all over the motorway! :shock: It PROBABLY will be all right but the best thing to do would be to get a car that's up for the job.

duncanw

silveringsurfer wrote:

It's not fair to compare it to a trailer or caravan which carries the vast bulk of it's own weight and not the towing car. We've all seen the results of getting the balance wrong on a caravan - bits of caravan and bedding all over the motorway! :shock: It PROBABLY will be all right but the best thing to do would be to get a car that's up for the job.

The comparison with the trailer/caravan is completely fair, you've got to remember when going down hill for example the weight or force on the towbar/caravan is a hell of a lot more than the 50kg stipulated. The caravan may have it's own brakes but the car brakes are so much more efficient so the force on the towbar/car is even more extreme. The weight of a couple of bikes on the back of the car is negligible in comparison. Also, the weight of 2 bikes + a carrier is only about 2/3 thirds of the weight of an adult male. The bike carrier is sitting further back behind the rear wheels but there's so little overhang the weight or actual force, more or less equates to having one bloke sitting on the back seat.

trickbooter

All good points. There are two factors that the nose weight tries to control
1) Too little downward force on the front wheels hence comedy / dangerous handling
2) Physical strength of the load bearing structure of the car

Now point number 1 cannot solely be assessed by weight. If theoretically I had a cycle rack that was 100m long. I could probably lift the front wheels of my car up by pressing on the end of the rack with my little finger. What is important here is the bending moment / torque applied. A measure of which is Nm, and cannot solely be represented by nose weight.

Point 2 can mostly be represented by weight, but the distance from the hitch mounting points to the tow ball will play a part in determine load transfer to the car.

However, one very important point that seems to be overlooked is that the tow ball bike carriers are clamped to the ball, therefore apply a torque behind the towball, hence worsening the situation for point 1, whereas caravans and trailers pivot, so there is no torque applied, only longitudinal, lateral and downward forces.

However, you imaging sticking 600kg ( unbraked towing weight of micra i think) on a trailer going downhill, then brake hard, that load will apply its force downward and forward (think front brake on bike), now that's got to put a whopper force on the tow ball, far greater I would suspect, than a fixed bicycle load held close to the car.

Add to that I read that Westfalia rear load carriers (boxes) are tested to 600kg, although only rated to 100kg suggest there is a colossal margin of safety.

My towbar was fitted at indespension, a reputable firm that deals with trailers, towing, commercial hire, marine - basically all things trailer-ey and towing, and he was super relaxed about it. It is 10% over, not like 100% over.

Anyway, it is bought now. I will take it steady and report back if I crash to death.

hopper1

silveringsurfer wrote:

Hmmm - If your not worried then you've clearly never watched the herbie films?
Remember you've a front wheel drive car and you may well have less weight over the front wheels making steering light and prone to oversteer. The guy fitting the towball wouldn't worry - he's not driving the damn thing and it's your responsibility how you load it. As said you need to make sure you have a couple of guys in the front to balance the weight and take it very easily until you get a feel of differences in the way the car handles. It's not fair to compare it to a trailer or caravan which carries the vast bulk of it's own weight and not the towing car. We've all seen the results of getting the balance wrong on a caravan - bits of caravan and bedding all over the motorway! :shock: It PROBABLY will be all right but the best thing to do would be to get a car that's up for the job.

Surely, if the steering is light, the car will understeer!...

trickbooter

No, oversteer is correct, the term is weird in its application.

Oversteer means the ultimate effect on steering, hence oversteer means you drift wide (you overcooked the corner).

This is contrary to the obvious application of the word in which one thinks oversteer means to appear too much steering.

trickbooter

No, I take it all back. Wiki says I am wrong, you are right. Oversteer is when the back wheels try and overtake the front wheels.

Impala

duncanw’s post recognising newton meters (or foot pounds) impact of bike racks on nose (tongue) weight is excellent and sadly lacking on towbar websites. It is especially important with the emergence of ebikes. 4x17kg = 68kg which is beyond the capacity of many 4bike racks and towbars on some smaller cars and some larger hybrids. And that ignores newton metres. We seem to have a design issue here, or maybe next generation ebikes will be lighter. Is there a simple formula for nose/tongue weight maxima that incorporates newton metres?

JBA

Holy thread resurrection!

Craig_Broadbent

Interesting problems. I used to work for Nissan and the previous Micra has very poor towing capability. New one has 75Kg nose weight. I helped design it.
But I left Nissan 18 months ago and started developing some new fixings and a new racks.
The rack is a US style one aka THULE T2 PRO, which holds the front tyres. No frame clamp issues, and really fast loading.
It fits to a Flange towbar. It weighs 13Kg, so you can add 37Kg of bikes and still be legal. Not sure it will fit in a Micra boot. It is 108cm wide. We designed it for a more manly car.
Please visit the website for more details.

https://auxtail.com/