3 generations

dave_1

Would Pantani have handled Contadors attacks in the 2009 TDF? Would Indurain have out TTed Cancellera or AC? Would Abdu or Cipo have troubled Cav? I know it's a little silly..but we can dream...

calvjones

Dave_1 wrote:

Would Pantani have handled Contadors attacks in the 2009 TDF? Would Indurain have out TTed Cancellera or AC? Would Abdu or Cipo have troubled Cav? I know it's a little silly..but we can dream...

1. Yes, but been spanked in the TTs
2. I think on a flat course Cancellara would be the man
3. Abdu, no. Cipo, hard to say as it would have been down to the quality of the respective trains. Cipo would have been waaaaay better dressed tho.

Kléber

I think Pantani would have left Contador behind. Contador can attack fast but he rarely opens up a big gap, Pantani could take minutes on a summit finish.

Indurain would be a good contest for Cancellara, especially since he was minutes ahead of the others. Given both he and Rominger took The Hour, it could be another good contest. As for Cav, his style is very different from Cipo but yes, I think he'd beat both Abdu and Cipo but he might have his work cut out against Abdu's irregular style.

But all this is just my view and of course, several of the riders above were turbo-boosted by Dr Ferrari and Dr Conconi, the 1990s were a black spot for the sport.

Perhaps fairer comparisons exist between today's riders and those from the 1970s or 80s?

dave_1

Kléber wrote:

I think Pantani would have left Contador behind. Contador can attack fast but he rarely opens up a big gap, Pantani could take minutes on a summit finish.

Indurain would be a good contest for Cancellara, especially since he was minutes ahead of the others. Given both he and Rominger took The Hour, it could be another good contest. As for Cav, his style is very different from Cipo but yes, I think he'd beat both Abdu and Cipo but he might have his work cut out against Abdu's irregular style.

But all this is just my view and of course, several of the riders above were turbo-boosted by Dr Ferrari and Dr Conconi, the 1990s were a black spot for the sport.

Perhaps fairer comparisons exist between today's riders and those from the 1970s or 80s?

just thinking how AC would have had to cover this, would have loved to have seen it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euu3-WKg ... re=related

Cancellera v Indurain in the luxembourg TT 1992...??? hmmm another dream battle I'd love to have known the result of


re your point about the 70s-80s riders...seems like riders were not out the seat in the 1980s on the cols, they were grovelling in the seat.. Pantani's best attacks, LAs, they involve stamping the pedals out the seat for 1 to 2km to get well clear...

RichN95.

I reckon Pantani beats Contador (but not on GC), Mig beats Fabian and Cav beats Mario (and Abdu).

dave_1

RichN95 wrote:

I reckon Pantani beats Contador (but not on GC), Mig beats Fabian and Cav beats Mario (and Abdu).

but nobody sprints dirty but within the rules like Abdu did...am sure if there was an Abdu type around Cav would struggle.

The Prodigy

RichN95 wrote:

I reckon Pantani beats Contador (but not on GC), Mig beats Fabian and Cav beats Mario (and Abdu).

It would be interesting to see Contador up against some serious attacks on the cols. Its what we should have seen from the Sclecks. Maybe next year.

RichN95.

Dave_1 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I reckon Pantani beats Contador (but not on GC), Mig beats Fabian and Cav beats Mario (and Abdu).

but nobody sprints dirty but within the rules like Abdu did...am sure if there was an Abdu type around Cav would struggle.

As long as he remembers to attack Abdu on his left hand side and not the right, I think he'll be fine.

blazing_saddles

"Hairy" Pantani beats Contador one day, loses the next.
"Baldy" Pantani would show Berto his mini muscular rear end, giving Frenchie another photo op.

Cancellara and Indurain would share the spoils, but Mig would come out on top, come Tour.

Cav would have plenty to say, if Abdu was around to derail his train, from time to time.
On that subjext, I would love to see the Red and Yellow machines going at it, side to side and Cipo pedalling with both legs.

MG would take the tactical typing battle, but Frenchie would nail him in the photo shopping and grab the MTF, on the moral high ground. :P

disgruntledgoat

Dave_1 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I reckon Pantani beats Contador (but not on GC), Mig beats Fabian and Cav beats Mario (and Abdu).

but nobody sprints dirty but within the rules like Abdu did...am sure if there was an Abdu type around Cav would struggle.

You mean a peak-of-his-powers Robbie McEwen?

timoid.

Assuming they could train as they trained when they were at the peak of their powers and suspending disbelief

Pantani sh1ts on anything in the current peloton on any given lumpy stage, limits time gaps in the TTs and brings home the bacon. However Charly Gaul shows the pirate who truly is the greatest grimpeur of all time.

Big Mig becomes the first man to catch and pass Spartacus

Cipolini's well drilled machine beats up Cav's train a couple of times, but in general is bested by the Manxman. Abdu gets in a fight (literally) with McEwen for fourth.

moray_gub

Dave_1 wrote:

Would Pantani have handled Contadors attacks in the 2009 TDF? Would Indurain have out TTed Cancellera or AC? Would Abdu or Cipo have troubled Cav? I know it's a little silly..but we can dream...

As has been said Contatdor attacks fast but at times he can be contained he is only opening up gaps of a minute or so wheras Pantanai could easily take 2 or 3 minutes on a MTF. Bertie best climber of the modern day but no match for Pantani imo.

Indurain versus Fab mid tour maybe Indurain like Contador this year but outwith that id have to say Fab.

Cipo definately have troubled Cav especilly when his train was working to perfection Abdu probably as well, that said i feel Cav is faster than both.

oscarbudgie

Is Pantani allowed to race dirty then? I don't believe he ever achieved anything racing without EPO - happy to be corrected on this. Seems like a lot of people like to buy into the 'tragic hero' Pantani legend and conveniently skate over the fact that without EPO he would've been nothing. Its highly likely he was already cheating as an amateur FFS

teagar

I'd imagine Pantani would just be setting such a pounding pace that contador would be unlikely to be able respond to anything. Then Pantani would attack once, and rinse him.

You know what would be more fun?

Merckx vs Armstrong!

Wheel to wheel in every race of the season.

We're all secetly thinking it. 8)

moray_gub

oscarbudgie wrote:

Is Pantani allowed to race dirty then? I don't believe he ever achieved anything racing without EPO - happy to be corrected on this. Seems like a lot of people like to buy into the 'tragic hero' Pantani legend and conveniently skate over the fact that without EPO he would've been nothing. Its highly likely he was already cheating as an amateur FFS

Its an interseting point but what do you do though do you go back to the 40s and 50s and exclude a self confessed doper like Fausto Coppi from these kind of things ? or Eddy Merckyx who also tested positive a couple of times ? They were what they were at the time, its a matter of speculation whether he would have been a nothing without EPO, what is a fact is he could climb almost better than anyone else and won a Giro and Tour doing so. Ok so if you want to look back at that and say it was all due to EPO use who do think would have won the 98 Giro and Tour if he had not done so, and what if those that you choose were guilty of EPO use as well ? just a thought like........

teagar

oscarbudgie wrote:

Is Pantani allowed to race dirty then? I don't believe he ever achieved anything racing without EPO - happy to be corrected on this. Seems like a lot of people like to buy into the 'tragic hero' Pantani legend and conveniently skate over the fact that without EPO he would've been nothing. Its highly likely he was already cheating as an amateur FFS

it's easier and more fun to just look at what happened on the road and comparing, rather than having to adjust for blood values.

flattythehurdler

Moray Gub wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Would Pantani have handled Contadors attacks in the 2009 TDF? Would Indurain have out TTed Cancellera or AC? Would Abdu or Cipo have troubled Cav? I know it's a little silly..but we can dream...

As has been said Contatdor attacks fast but at times he can be contained he is only opening up gaps of a minute or so wheras Pantanai could easily take 2 or 3 minutes on a MTF. Bertie best climber of the modern day but no match for Pantani imo.

Indurain versus Fab mid tour maybe Indurain like Contador this year but outwith that id have to say Fab.

Cipo definately have troubled Cav especilly when his train was working to perfection Abdu probably as well, that said i feel Cav is faster than both.

The thing about Bertie is that it is not quite clear whether he has eased up when he knows he has done enough or whether he has truly ridden hell for leather up an entire climb.

finchy

Just going by Tdf TT wins, Cancellara's 28 and has won 3 times against the clock, Indurain had won 7 before turning 29.

ju5t1n

disgruntledgoat wrote:

You mean a peak-of-his-powers Robbie McEwen?

Yes ...McEwan in the 2006 TDF was pulling away from a sprinting bunch just like Cav was 2 years later (and without Team Columbia's help)

teagar

johnfinch wrote:

Just going by Tdf TT wins, Cancellara's 28 and has won 3 times against the clock, Indurain had won 7 before turning 29.

Cancellara suffers because his recovery isn't like Indurain's.

That and I think he's often chosen to peak for different times of the year (i.e. Northern classics).

calvjones

teagar wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Just going by Tdf TT wins, Cancellara's 28 and has won 3 times against the clock, Indurain had won 7 before turning 29.

Cancellara suffers because his recovery isn't like Indurain's.

That and I think he's often chosen to peak for different times of the year (i.e. Northern classics).

And Mig never had to work for anybody beyond '90

finchy

calvjones wrote:

teagar wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Just going by Tdf TT wins, Cancellara's 28 and has won 3 times against the clock, Indurain had won 7 before turning 29.

Cancellara suffers because his recovery isn't like Indurain's.

That and I think he's often chosen to peak for different times of the year (i.e. Northern classics).

And Mig never had to work for anybody beyond '90

Both of you have fair points, but he did have to defend the yellow jersey in the mountains as well. And he did manage to win a Tour ITT by a 3 minute margin in 1992. Which is pretty impressive by anybody's standards.