Truly Breathable Waterproofs - is there such a thing?

dave_hill

Regular posters will know my dislike of riding in the winter.

I'm not bothered about the cold (in fact I'd rather it was freezing than boiling hot); it's the wet that gets my goat.

Now I know that the simple answer is "waterproofs". All well and good until it comes to speccing some. Now obviously I know that I'm going to need something suitable for cycling, and it's got to be breathable.

But herein lies the problem. I don't seem to be able to find a waterproof that can keep up with me. I sweat like a pervert in a playground at the slightest provocation and I always end up as cold and as wet on the inside as on the outside, and as any outdoorsman will tell you being cold and wet is not good. This is why I find riding in winter to be absolute misery and quite frankly I'd rather shut myself in my shed with a cuppa and my tools.

Now the other thing is, I object to paying £150 or more for a waterproof jacket that a) is probably not as good as it's cracked up to be anyway; b) will probably fail anyway; and c) will end up looking like a dog blanket inside 5 weeks.

So, is there such a thing as a cheap (ish), properly breathable, easily cleanable waterproof out there, or am I just going to have to resign myself to spending the winter wearing running shoes and pounding the pavements?

ride_whenever

Thought about a gilet?

I suffer from sweaty boiling as well, and find using my arms as heat radiators works really well! The gilet then keeps my core warm!

cougie

Nothing can get rid of all of the sweat. If you had one layer - and you went out and rode - you would still be damp. Its mad to think that adding a layer on top of that would help wick sweat away.

So you have to put up with some sweat - but some kit is better than others. What other layers do you wear ?

onlyonearrow

dave_hill wrote:

So, is there such a thing as a cheap (ish), properly breathable, easily cleanable waterproof out there, or am I just going to have to resign myself to spending the winter wearing running shoes and pounding the pavements?

One word ... Paramo

http://www.paramo.co.uk

Not cheap but will last and last...

ride_whenever

cougie
that is strictly true, but when it is cold, you can get to a lovely balance where you don't sweat because it isn't necessary. With a wicking long sleeve base-layer and a gilet i've been on night rides with almost no sweating.

stumpyjon

I've got an Altura Attack jacket on order. Can't vouch for it yet but it did pretty well in a Singletrack review last month and I ordered it on the strength of it being lightweight and very breathable compared to many of the other jackets (and I met the bloke who reviewed it, he was wearing it at the time so at least he'd put his money where his mouth was). I decided I could always layer up underneath if it isn't warm enough.

Like many I too sweat like a pig at a hog roast, never sure whether it's the jacket leaking or me.

dave_hill

onlyonearrow wrote:

Not cheap but will last and last...

Yeah, exactly - I wouldn't pay £200 for a suit, let alone a waterproof jacket...

blister pus

I'm tempted to say no straight off if you haven't found a wicking top and bottom base layer combination that deals with real hyper perspiration effectively already.

I don't sweat on your scale but do generate silly heat and sweat whatever the weather and at the moment, with these temperatures 0 - 5° and rain, I'm using a long sleeved wicking top and 3/4 wicking running tights for base layer - and for outer waterproof layer, a side and back vented Altura Nevis jacket (£40) (vents fully open) and Altura Attack 3/4 shorts (£49). Both work stopping water getting in and the wicking top / bottom work getting the moisture to the fabric surface and it seems to evaporate ok so I guess the jacket in particular is doing it's job.

This will do me right down to about -3° with waterproof Sealskinz socks £18 and Chiba waterproof gloves £18. But whether that combination would actually cope with real hyper persperation I wouldn't like to speculate.

cougie

Paramo are nice - I had a paramo walking jacket for years - I'd still sweat in it though no matter what base layer I had on.

onlyonearrow

dave_hill wrote:

onlyonearrow wrote:

Not cheap but will last and last...

Yeah, exactly - I wouldn't pay £200 for a suit, let alone a waterproof jacket...

You're not far from this Paramo retailer. They often have good discount on Paramo discontinued lines, such as this one:

http://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/shop/product.php?xProd=278&jssCart=eeef1697fb2d2349ec86acf9c5cf872a

I agree £200 is a lot to pay for a waterproof jacket - but my own experience with Paramo garments has made me think it's worth it.

skinman

I like my endura mt 500 it does get a bit hot but you have vents every where so I start with them all open and close if i get cold,also has a hood so can use it every day eg moutain walking and walking the dog and clean's very easy.And if you do get a bit damp open it up and it dries very quick.

Bear77

You can't mess with Paramo. My Velez smock wicks from cotton t shirts! It is a warm jacket but it has two great big zips up each side. If you get a bit warm this usually sorts things out, doesn't seem to let in rain. Been used daily on winter commute for three years and still looks like new. It made a massive difference to my winter commute. I wont say I never sweat but if its cool enough there can be very little.

tnwoolley

You could try a shirt from Buffalo. They do a cycle specific one but they're all the same I reckon. The thing is it is they are not waterproof: they work by wicking sweat away from your body with a pile lining and the pertex outer keeps you insulated and warm; so even if its raining and you get soaked it doesn't matter as the heat from your body evaporates the rain and sweat away. I've not had the courage to bite the bullet and invest yet but I've heard only good things so far...unless anyone would care to contradict me?

spongtastic

no there isn't. I've had a berghaus gortex xcr jacket that cost £300+ and I'm still wet whilst walking and climbing. Tried a couple of £200+ gore jackets to replace my Gill boil in the bag jobby and they were the same. Gave up and bought an endura convert 2, so now just zip the sleeves off when it gets a bit warm.

Broonster

tnwoolley wrote:

You could try a shirt from Buffalo. They do a cycle specific one but they're all the same I reckon. The thing is it is they are not waterproof: they work by wicking sweat away from your body with a pile lining and the pertex outer keeps you insulated and warm; so even if its raining and you get soaked it doesn't matter as the heat from your body evaporates the rain and sweat away. I've not had the courage to bite the bullet and invest yet but I've heard only good things so far...unless anyone would care to contradict me?

Never tried a Buffalo whilst cycling, but I have one that I've used for years when walking up the mountains and I can't speak highly enough of them. By far the best piece of outdoor kit I've ever purchased.

bamba

How can a fabric be breathable and waterproof?

The honest answer is that it can't do both 100% effectively.

The fabrics that you buy operate on a trade-off basis. By that we mean that normally in the UK a waterproof fabric is judged on its ability to withstand the pressure of a column of water. Thus you can offset the waterproof capabilities of the fabric by limiting it to a pressure equal to a heavy thunderstorm. That means the fabric can also breath up to that pressure of water. Beyond that, it will allow water in through the breathing surface.

You can increase the breathing quality by reducing the resistance to the column of water thus making it less waterproof.
http://www.tenn-outdoors.co.uk/shopping ... yer_System

robertpb

If that were true we wouldn't have more waterproof and greater breath ability than we had 20 years ago.

Just go and look at any manufacturer of waterproof jackets their cheaper ranges are less breathable and less waterproof than their expensive range.

Alinshearah

Some waterproof materials such as Gore-tex work by condensing the sweat vapour and use the pressure differetial to transport the water to the outside. This is why they often feel wet. Manufacture often use a mesh liner to disguise this. The problem comes even worse when your jacket losess it's DWR water repellances on the outside and becomes dirty. The outside of the jacket absorbs water and there is no differential between the outside and the inside. You end up very wet.
eVent, whilst not perfect, work slightely different in that the sweat vapour passes directly through the fabric and does not need to condense. This is far better and removes a lot of the wet feeling.

Eranu

eVent, whilst not perfect, work slightely different in that the sweat vapour passes directly through the fabric and does not need to condense. This is far better and removes a lot of the wet feeling.

Up until today I would agree with you. I've had an eVent jacket since last winter, it's great and has never let me down. So I bought some eVent shorts based on the great performance of the jacket. I've worn them 4 or 5 times, inlcuding twice this weekend.

Now I admit I didn't wash them between ride this weekend but they weren't that dirty after the first ride as I had a long tarmac ride back to the car on Saturday evening which probably cleaned the worst of the mud off my arse.

About 30 minutes in to todays ride I had a damp behind. Now I'm not sure if it's because they weren't fully dry when I put them on, as I stupidly left them in the garage overnight rather than hanging them in the house like a normally do. The front was fine not wet at all, same with my top. Going to see how they do tomorrow, if I get another wet arse they can go back

thelonegroover

eVent is generally considered to be the most breathable ptfe laminate material, this is similar to Goretex, but slightly less structured. Most manufacturers currently make two and three layer jackets. However quite a few manufacturers are now using a 2.5 layer system. This has the advantage of not having a drop liner, as in two layer systems and it’s thinner and lighter than three layer. It’s also more breathable.
Maintaining the DWR is very important, if the rain water does not bead on your jackets it’s not going to breathe. That results in sweat. Never use regular washing powder or any softener, always use pure soap flakes or a technical wash, then reproof with grangers or the like.
Paramo use a different system and tend to be warmer and heavier.

Anonymous

I also sweat like a priest in a boy's school, as soon as I start excercising, I always have. I often have sweat literally pouring off mu chin, ridiculous
I recently splashed out on an Endura Flyte jacket, and its easily the most breathable, but hardcore-waterproof jacket I've ever had. Completely wipes the floor with my very expensive Vango coat I got a few years back.
In fact, it's so breathable, that when I stopped for a breather on the bike, I had steam evaporating off me - in a lesse jacket, that would all have been building up on the inside!
At a hundred quid, it's not prohibitively expensive, and I'd say it's well worth putting on a shortlist.

thelonegroover

The ptfe used by Endura is probably similar to eVent, ie. there is no very thin PU coating as in Goretex, so it's more breathable. I'd guess its also similar to eVent in performance. But both will be more brethable than Goretex. However, ultimately Goretex may stay waterproof for longer.

gaz047

i also sweat like a blind man lost in a hotdog factory,
got a gore packlite last winter and although pretty expensive (£100), you get what you pay for. its breathable, as much as a waterproof can be, does a good job of keeping you dry and packs down v.small.