Times attacks Ipod Cyclist "zombies"

downfader

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12665470



(rather than doible post)

Mountainboy2465

Thanks for that, this is the only forum I look at.

Frustrating isn't it. Comments such as the one stating that cyclists 'rely' on their ears and that as driver he uses his eyes.

All these years checking over my shoulder before signalling, checking again after signalling & getting eye contact with drivers was wasted, I should just be closing my eyes & using the force!

Monty Dog

The did at least speak to the CTC who quite rightly brought up the plight of deaf cyclists. The problem is that the media somehow perceive cyclists as an anarchic threat to the well-being of the law-abiding majority.

downfader

Monty Dog wrote:

The did at least speak to the CTC who quite rightly brought up the plight of deaf cyclists. The problem is that the media somehow perceive cyclists as an anarchic threat to the well-being of the law-abiding majority.

I think the other problem is that (and no disrespect to anyone living/working there) london seems to be in a league of its own. Other places rarely seem to exhibit the same behaviours and the London drivers seem very... vocal. :?

Zephr

london isnt the only place like that.
To be honest. in my opinion, biking with earphones on is pretty darn stupid.
Admittidly this is skewed by a mate who was killed when we were 14, cycling on the isle of wight with earphones on. got run over by a car.
DONT f**k*ng bike with earphones on. Its not big, its not clever and it gets you killed. (eventually)

woodford2barbican

Zephr wrote:

london isnt the only place like that.
To be honest. in my opinion, biking with earphones on is pretty darn stupid.
Admittidly this is skewed by a mate who was killed when we were 14, cycling on the isle of wight with earphones on. got run over by a car.
DONT f**k*ng bike with earphones on. Its not big, its not clever and it gets you killed. (eventually)

Was it the earphones which killed him or the car?

cuthbertrogergaylord

the times article wrote:

Pedestrians, too, have fallen victim to cyclists listening to music and apparently oblivious to those around them.

What about the cyclists who have fallen victim to pedestrians listening to music and definitely oblivious to those around them.

It's all gone a bit daily mail.

cougie

I tried riding with an ipod once - not commuting, but on a Sunday ride in the country. Really didnt like it and cars could sneak up on me - even though the volume was low. I cant see its a good idea. You need as many senses as you can get with crap motorists.

Zephr

woodford2barbican wrote:

Zephr wrote:

london isnt the only place like that.
To be honest. in my opinion, biking with earphones on is pretty darn stupid.
Admittidly this is skewed by a mate who was killed when we were 14, cycling on the isle of wight with earphones on. got run over by a car.
DONT f**k*ng bike with earphones on. Its not big, its not clever and it gets you killed. (eventually)

Was it the earphones which killed him or the car?

the earphones, because he couldnt hear the car as he swerved across the road to get home.
if he didnt have the earphones in he wouldnt have died.

northstar

Zephr wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

Zephr wrote:

london isnt the only place like that.
To be honest. in my opinion, biking with earphones on is pretty darn stupid.
Admittidly this is skewed by a mate who was killed when we were 14, cycling on the isle of wight with earphones on. got run over by a car.
DONT f**k*ng bike with earphones on. Its not big, its not clever and it gets you killed. (eventually)

Was it the earphones which killed him or the car?

the earphones, because he couldnt hear the car as he swerved across the road to get home.
if he didnt have the earphones in he wouldnt have died.

Or the fact he was 14 and probably had little road sense.

downfader

northstar wrote:

Zephr wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

Zephr wrote:

london isnt the only place like that.
To be honest. in my opinion, biking with earphones on is pretty darn stupid.
Admittidly this is skewed by a mate who was killed when we were 14, cycling on the isle of wight with earphones on. got run over by a car.
DONT f**k*ng bike with earphones on. Its not big, its not clever and it gets you killed. (eventually)

Was it the earphones which killed him or the car?

the earphones, because he couldnt hear the car as he swerved across the road to get home.
if he didnt have the earphones in he wouldnt have died.

Or the fact he was 14 and probably had little road sense.

Guys, lets not turn this into an argument about his mate. The only person who probably knows sadly isnt here to answer the question.

I think there are too many variables involved. The point is the Times article isnt about ipods in all reality. Its a journo mouthing off causing trouble and stirring up nonsense and mythos.

Mountainboy2465

Come on! Your ears are virtually useless to you when riding!

Unless you have bat-like ability to perfectly place sounds (pretty sure they don't actually have that skill either but you know what I mean!)

I hear countless vehicles approaching from behind as I ride but I can't tell from the engine noise if they will pass by harmlessly or plough into me and I am not about to leap into a hedge whenever I hear an engine behind me.

If you make any manouvre (sp?) in the road without looking behind you I would suggest it is not the iPod that kills you but recklessness.

How would having music in your ears cause you to ride into a crossing pedestrian? Prevent you from hearing the warning tones all peds emit before crossing?

This article is nonsense & if they seriously believe wearing of headphones should be banned then I hope music in cars, helmet wearing by motorbike riders, hearing impaired road users of all kinds tractors and any tracked vehicles should be on the same bill.

fenboy369

Well as I dont own an iPod I presume I'm ok. Although I do wear an mp3/DAB thingy... nevermind I'll be ok as its not made by a company named after a fruit.
Nearly as stupid an argument as the Times made. Almost a Daily (Hate) Mail article, why do we have such idiots as journo's these days?

beegee

You can (in the countryside anyway) tell what type of vehicle it is by the sound of the engine. I find that very useful to make decisions e.g. lorry engine + narrow road makes me think it might be useful to pull over to let it pass.

Agent57

Mountainboy2465 wrote:

Come on! Your ears are virtually useless to you when riding!

Are you having a laugh? (Is he having a laugh?)

Well, maybe your ears seem useless to you, but I use mine a lot when riding. I'd hate to be out on the roads and not be able to hear my surroundings. Particulary on quiet, country roads (for example), hearing traffic is the first alert that something's approaching. In a busy town or city, one might assume there's traffic around constantly, so maybe less reliant upon audible cues, but I still find them important.

As a cyclist, I'm so much more vulnerable than the people in cars (or larger vehicles), so I prefer to keep all my senses available for the detection of potential problems.

shouldbeinbed

I think that if there is to be a campaing against 'zombie' cyclists there should be a complimentary campaign to ensure that all electric (silent engine) and whisper quiet cars are fitted with some small siren so that they are audible to the average pedestrian and cyclist. it's only fair if we're being castigated for blocking our capacity to hear then manufacturers deliberately making silent or extremely quiet engines are equally at fault.

why no mention of the danger to themselves that are zombie pedestrians wandering along along headphones in ears and stepping into the road without looking and listening properly.

I've seen far more tell tale wires on peds than cyclists

Pokerface

I have an old set of headphones that I cut one side off - so I only use it in one ear. Kind of like the pros with their earpieces.

How does that fit into the whole argument? I can still hear cars and surrounds, but also can hear my music.

Or am I getting too distracted by my music? :roll:

BentMikey

Those who *need* their hearing to ride, are simply not looking back enough. Poor cyclecraft, IMO.

Agent57

shouldbeinbed wrote:

there should be a complimentary campaign to ensure that all electric (silent engine) and whisper quiet cars are fitted with some small siren so that they are audible to the average pedestrian and cyclist.

I've said on more than one occasion that I think wholly silent (or very quiet) vehicles would cause their own problems, so I support that (even if the comment was sarcastic).

_Brun_

Mountainboy2465 wrote:

Come on! Your ears are virtually useless to you when riding

You'd fall off a lot more if it weren't for your ears.

fnegroni

I was thinking about this 'hearing' thing this morning.

I was wearing an ear band (cold and wet on my commute today) and I could tell the sounds were a bit muffled.
All the same, I just looked behind a few more times at critical points as an instinctive reaction.

I thought then: what if a cyclist were deaf? How would he cope?

What about the day electric cars will be the norm? Are they going to install fake engine noises?

What about other cyclists?

IMHO, The matter of fact is that although hearing is an excellent 'extra', it is not as vital as sight and prudence!

Matt the Tester

i'm fully deaf in my right ear apart from a slight balance problem (which is getting better) i'm fine riding leisurely or commuting. only thing i have to worry about is getting tired then i cannot control my balance as effectively as i would like!

shouldbeinbed

Agent57 wrote:

shouldbeinbed wrote:

there should be a complimentary campaign to ensure that all electric (silent engine) and whisper quiet cars are fitted with some small siren so that they are audible to the average pedestrian and cyclist.

I've said on more than one occasion that I think wholly silent (or very quiet) vehicles would cause their own problems, so I support that (even if the comment was sarcastic).

It was a perfectly genuine comment and suggestion - nothing sarcastic about it at all :evil: I've been scared witless by a near silent merc recently and a pal of mine has a new prius with a silent mode option - they're a genuine danger that need addressing.

DonDaddyD

Like most of these threads they lack balance and clarity. Ironic really.

You need your ears (its something to do with your inner ear) to balance. So you need your ears at least to be able to ride a bike. However, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, the balance mechanism of the ear is not overly affected by ambient sound or that of an iPod, stereo or car radio. - I.e. When I listen to a iPod I don't suddenly loose the ability to stand, walk and/or ride a bike - unless that sound is of a nature to distort or disorientate my ability to balance. (Most comercially sold music doesn't do that or contains a frequency to do that).

What an iPod can do is make me loose concentration. What inner earphones or headphones that block outside noise do is make me somewhat oblivious to the outside World. This is similar to me winding my car window up and turning my stereo up to 21 (it goes up to 50). In both instances it can be dangerous.

The solution? Turn the car stereo or iPod down. Buy earphones that allow outside noise. Remember you're in a car or riding a bike, maintain concentration, if you can't turn it off. If you still can't don't ride or drive.

Edit: I would also argue that listening to nearly interactive talk radio stations - that by which I mean you are on a concious level you're engaging with the conversation and the opinions - is more dangerous than listening to music in terms of maintaining concentration.

biondino

woodford2barbican wrote:

Zephr wrote:

london isnt the only place like that.
To be honest. in my opinion, biking with earphones on is pretty darn stupid.
Admittidly this is skewed by a mate who was killed when we were 14, cycling on the isle of wight with earphones on. got run over by a car.
DONT f**k*ng bike with earphones on. Its not big, its not clever and it gets you killed. (eventually)

Was it the earphones which killed him or the car?

Was it jumping off the cliff that killed him, or hitting the rocks 300 feet below?

Christophe3967

We must ban iPods before its too late.

DonDaddyD

biondino wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

Zephr wrote:

london isnt the only place like that.
To be honest. in my opinion, biking with earphones on is pretty darn stupid.
Admittidly this is skewed by a mate who was killed when we were 14, cycling on the isle of wight with earphones on. got run over by a car.
DONT f**k*ng bike with earphones on. Its not big, its not clever and it gets you killed. (eventually)

Was it the earphones which killed him or the car?

Something you'd expect from the Daily Mail. I.e. "Earphones kill Man as car pummels him!"

I mean feck me, how high was that curb!?

Wallace1492

Its not just about hearing cars behind you. I am convinced I would be dead if I had headphones on.

Approaching traffic light "T" junction from the side road, my lights are green, and i want to turn right, buildings along both sides so couldn't see the main road, but I have green and step on the pedals.

However, as I am moving up to the line, I hear a low roar and immediately recognise it as a car at high speed. I brake slightly and then from the right a car appears, going through the red at what I would estimate as 70 mph (in a 30 zone) I slammed on the anchors and it passed me less than 3 foot in front, and I felt the wind from it.

I am certain that if I had not heard the low roar early and braked, I would have been accelerating onto the main road and not had time to avoid it.

I would never wear earphones in traffic.

Porgy

Christophe3967 wrote:

We must ban iPods before its too late.

yeah ban ipods! They're shit. I personally use a Creative Zen MP3 player. Much better.

snailracer

Hearing is impaired if you are going fast/against the wind on a bike, due to the noise of the wind blowing over your ears.
Electric cars are obviously very quiet. Buses can also be very quiet, as they are rear engined, and cyclists often share bus lanes with them.
So, my conclusion is that hearing isn't that useful when riding a bike, which is why I have a mirror.

Porgy

I've had this argument lots of times. It's the same as helmets - a matter of personal choice.

The day wearing headphones affects the way i ride a bike or compromises my safety i will stop.