so angry

wyadvd

grrrr whats this about holding your line.....every 18 inches away from the curb makes the motorists graciously give you an extra 18 +inches when overtaking out of 'respect'!?.......what rubbish

On a narrowish busy narrow stretch where i have been getting annoyed at being allowed the customary 6 inches plus a hoot for existing.... I decided id try it ....move out a bit so the blighters just have to wait. .....withing 2 minutes i was overtaken by angry motorist and the second one clipped my bandlebars with his wing mirror and shook his fist .....

So that works ......not......

amaferanga

It makes SOME people think about overtaking. Unfortunately there are dickheads around who will happily clip you with their wing mirror regardless of where you are in the road.

18 inches from the kerb isn't much anyway. If you want to stop people overtaking you at a particular stretch because it'd be dangerous then you need to move out further. Of couse there're still be dickheads who will object no matter where you are on the road.

BentMikey

You might have better luck if shown by a cycle instructor.

RedGT

Riding 2 or 3 abreast usually works.

fenboy369

When I first tried to ride home along the A10 from Cambridge to Ely (rural A road) I rode about 6 inches from the edge and was terrified. Lorrys 8 inches away cars doing 65mph past me. Not good.
I now ride just to the left hand side of the wear line created by the left hand wheels of the cars etc... (Does that make sense?) I get loads of room from 75% of cars and 95% of lorries. If I feel that a lorry is coming up too fast and not slowing, or if its one that I've a close one with before, then I move out a little further, about 10 inches, just to the right hand side of the groove.
I get heaps of room from everybody then. But thats my bit of road and you need to ride to the road and conditions. Loads of back lights, reflective bits where you can etc... make yourself seen.
When I drive I found myself 'not seeing' cyclists who ride in the gutter. (Dont do it, its where the Fairies live). But ones even 12 inches out from Fairy-Land stand out so much more. <Look at me face>

_Jon_

You think close overtaking is bad? what about when their coming towards you too close?

There are chicanes along a main road near our house, the cars overtaking the chicanes (coming towards me) hardly every give way to me and so get very close (unless there is a car behind me).

Also, cars behind me always try and overtake me and get back in front of me far too close just before getting to the chicanes. I had a land-rover with a trailer do this the other day - the trailer just missed me.

I think I am going to try and take the primary position from now on which should hopefully give them no choice but to give way .

wyadvd

yes thats the problem really with "moving out" to assert your position. They might give you a little more distance , but they are more incined to "dash for it" before an oncoming car gets too close with a bit of brinkmanship thrown in for good measure!

Therefore they are more likely to cut sharply in after (halfway through in actual fact) the ovetaking manoevre. and still get very close.

it is especially difficult when in the motorist's opinion you should be on the cycle path that is interupted by 4 mini roundabouts!

My commute is almost entirely cycle path number 15 (Thanet) but the only part of the route where there is no cycle route is the busiest car wise!

wyadvd

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&sourc ... ce+(Stop+B)&geocode=FWh0DgMdz38TACkrr3BuOLLeRzGjA43p8XLQPg%3BCRfRMsdhA9NrFWzvDwMdsDAVACHTOZRF5AT5Lg&hl=en&mra=pe&mrcr=0&dirflg=w&sll=51.307052,1.299419&sspn=0.211622,0.438766&safe=on&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=12

fossyant

If someone clipped me with their wing mirror, and I was able to catch them, I'd be clipping their mirror with my foot.... - or at least I'd slap the car and have a word.......

Some right idiots out there !

Zachariah

I find it hard to believe any motorist but the most psychopathic would intentionally scrape any part of his/her car on a bike. Don't they want to do anything to avoid dings and nicks in their pride and joy?

All the motorists I know would be apoplectic with rage if a cyclist clipped their mirror.

(not excusing any bad driving here, just questioning intent behind contact)

wyadvd

the clip was an old boy in fact.....and I have a plastic reflector that projects around 3 inches to the right of my handle bar so that if such a thing ever happens (a) there was a red reflector there and (b) its something that will break, which if my handlebars were hit , might be me!

BentMikey

Like I said, it sounds like you need a cycle instructor to ride with you and show you how it works.

I'm rarely less than 3 feet from the edge, or 36 inches, rather a lot more than you imply. And that's in secondary position, when I'm making it easy for cars to pass. Taking the lane means really taking the lane, usually just to the right of the centre ridge to avoid the worst of the oil. That leaves you with plenty of room to duck left when a driver makes a mistake.

It's all about playing the odds - there's risk in riding in a vehicular way, but there's far more risk in riding in the gutter. Don't be a gutter nutter.

woodford2barbican

fenboy369 wrote:

When I first tried to ride home along the A10 from Cambridge to Ely (rural A road) I rode about 6 inches from the edge and was terrified. Lorrys 8 inches away cars doing 65mph past me. Not good.
I now ride just to the left hand side of the wear line created by the left hand wheels of the cars etc... (Does that make sense?) I get loads of room from 75% of cars and 95% of lorries. If I feel that a lorry is coming up too fast and not slowing, or if its one that I've a close one with before, then I move out a little further, about 10 inches, just to the right hand side of the groove.
I get heaps of room from everybody then. But thats my bit of road and you need to ride to the road and conditions. Loads of back lights, reflective bits where you can etc... make yourself seen.
When I drive I found myself 'not seeing' cyclists who ride in the gutter. (Dont do it, its where the Fairies live). But ones even 12 inches out from Fairy-Land stand out so much more. <Look at me face>

This is the way to do it. IMHO anyway.

wyadvd

is there any way you can point me to a decent, properly qualified instructor in my area (ct3)?

salsajake

not sure about an instructor really, unless the OP is not a very experienced cyclist. I think you learn your commute and you learn from near misses. There is a 200m stretch on my commute home with a blind crest, double white lines, very narrow lanes both ways. People would pull out to overtake, see a car coming the other way, pull back across the lines, even though they were alongside me. Had one guy nearly hit me and one girl actually did. I now go into that section, signal right and ride against the double white line - so a pass would be outrageously irresponsible. Most of the time 18" or so works fairly well

wyadvd

the instuctor thing was addressed at bentmikey........but all valid points salsajake. Every commute has its own wrinkles...

BentMikey

Oh, I'm not making any assumptions about wyadvd's cycling skill. He/she could be anywhere between beginner to very experienced, although my guess is fairly experienced. I think we can all learn and improve our traffic skills no matter how experienced [1], and I also realise that it can be much easier to understand the whole assertiveness and road positioning thing when shown in person.

You can find instructors via this search:

http://www.bikeability.org.uk/what_is_b ... ar_you.php


[1] This is one reason I love having a video camera - because in most incidents I've had, there's usually something I could do better next time. No matter that the other party was the main cause and at fault, I mean from a defensive and best practices cycling point of view.

NGale

Not to be insulting to any cycling instructors around these here parts, but my experiance of some of them locally has not been positive.

I have seen a couple encouraging cyclists to cycle two abrest on cyclepaths and not give way to faster moving cyclists, not taking up cyclists in their group on a lack of lights when instructing of an evening, and having bikes themselves which I can only discribe as being in shocking mechnical condition.

I don't believe all cycling instructors are like this, but what I have seen so far as put me off furthering my skills formally.

BentMikey

Can't argue with that, NGale. There are good and bad instructors in every kind of school out there.

The Chingford Skinhead

Have to say, I went with a cycle training uk instructor earlier this year to regain some confidence after my AC joint separation crash. She was fantastic and the very first thing we did was discuss all the usual bike checks you should do before getting on. Lots of boroughts pay for all / or part of the first lesson too.

chuckcork

I don't know about any particular distance, but i do know I don't like riding closer than a gulley width to the kerb (2 foot distance?) , because the gulleys on my route are mostly sunken (a little or a lot), and I really don't like riding over such speed bumps as they make me prone to losing control, which being closer to the kerb itself is only going to increase your chances of hitting the kerb itself and coming off.

Not a pleasant thought at 25mph.

Drivers can wait. If they are in that much of a hurry they should have left earlier, and in any case they'll just held up further along by something else like buses, red lights, ped xings, traffic queues/traffic jams, minor accidents, weight of traffic...so don't feel guilty about it!

Matt the Tester

NGale wrote:

Not to be insulting to any cycling instructors around these here parts, but my experiance of some of them locally has not been positive.

I have seen a couple encouraging cyclists to cycle two abrest on cyclepaths and not give way to faster moving cyclists, not taking up cyclists in their group on a lack of lights when instructing of an evening, and having bikes themselves which I can only discribe as being in shocking mechnical condition.

I don't believe all cycling instructors are like this, but what I have seen so far as put me off furthering my skills formally.

WOW thats nuts! they shouldn't be allowed to cycle if that is their ideal way of cycling.

spen666

wyadvd wrote:

grrrr whats this about holding your line.....every 18 inches away from the curb makes the motorists graciously give you an extra 18 +inches when overtaking out of 'respect'!?.......what rubbish

On a narrowish busy narrow stretch where i have been getting annoyed at being allowed the customary 6 inches plus a hoot for existing.... I decided id try it ....move out a bit so the blighters just have to wait. .....withing 2 minutes i was overtaken by angry motorist and the second one clipped my bandlebars with his wing mirror and shook his fist .....

So that works ......not......

If your purpose in moving out was as it seems to say, ie to make "the blighters just have to wait", then I'm not suprised at the reaction you got.

RonnyRaygun

Just found this forum and I'd like to add my thoughts to this subject.

I commute 13 miles each way on the outskirts of London and it never ceases to amaze me how thoughtless and inconsiderate motorists can be.
I cycle pretty quickly and have no trouble travelling along at 25mph on the flat, which is more than fast enough to keep up with traffic. Still they try to overtake, sometime having to slam their brakes on the moment they are past me to prevent them rear ending the car in front. At this point I go straight past them again.

I used to stay close to the side of the road and give motorists plenty of room, but I have realised that this only encourages them to try to squeeze through gaps which aren't wide enough. For example on one section of my commute there is a stretch of road which always has parked cars down the one side. This leaves enough room for two cars, but not two cars and a bicycle. This doesn't stop motorists trying to pass me! On one oocasion I almost got crushed between a parked acar and the car overtaking me when he cut back in due to an oncoming car. I had to hit his window with my fist to let him know I was still there!
I now move out to go round these cars way in advance of actually reaching them, and stay out far enough that any cars behind me cannot attempt to overtake if there are on-coming vehicles. At 25mph in a 30 limit this is not much of an inconvenience for them.