Swift Exit?

BdeB
BdeB Posts: 110
edited December 2009 in Pro race
They seek him here they seek him there....
«1

Comments

  • dulldave
    dulldave Posts: 949
    In case anyone is wondering, he's talking about this:
    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... eting.html
    Scottish and British...and a bit French
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Very poor form.

    I remember last year BC examined the Katusha contract before he signed.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Once_In_A_Blue_Moon
    Once_In_A_Blue_Moon Posts: 269
    Further proof that contracts are worth sod all these days.

    I though Swift said at the end of the season that he would see out his Katusha contract?
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Fair enough he wants out of Katusha, but this is not the way to do it.

    Perhaps an emergency happened and he's uncontactable?
    I like bikes...

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  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Doesnt seem very responsible - if he's not honouring this contract - why would he honour another ?

    Maybe there is more to it than meets the eye.
  • kickerbri
    kickerbri Posts: 53
    Is this likely to be under orders from Team Sky? From the outside looking in this looks like rather unprofessional behaviour although I would not say that Katusha constantly stating that Pozzatto put the breaks on and let him win is really helping the situation.

    I fully expect this saga to end with Swift at Team Sky but a pretty hefty amount of compensation is going to have to be paid.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Will any teams trust British cyclists if this kind of thing continues? You'd be constantly worried Sky will try to nab them.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    redddraggon wrote:
    Perhaps an emergency happened and he's uncontactable?

    Yes - perhaps he's still too hungover from partying with the Downings last weekend:

    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/gallerie ... -2009.html

    With glass of wine in hand:
    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/gallerie ... -2009.html
  • jocksyboy
    jocksyboy Posts: 135
    why should cycling be any different from any other sport?
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells
  • GroupOfOne MkII
    GroupOfOne MkII Posts: 1,289
    iainf72 wrote:
    Very poor form.

    I remember last year BC examined the Katusha contract before he signed.

    Presumably that was with the stated aim of helping the rider rather than making sure there were loopholes though :D

    I presume then from all this that Swift isn't one of the British cyclists on pro teams that was having contributions towards his wages by BC then. As others have said, I'm sure this'll end up with him at Sky and some cash going t'other way. All very like when a footballer says he wants to join club x, and eventually low and behold it happens.

    Would be interesting to hear Swift's take on it, but at the moment doesn't reflect too well on him if what Tchmil is saying is true. Though to be fair to Swift he has repeatedly said that he has a contract for next year with Katusha, so I wonder what swayed his head...he isn't Christmas shopping in Manchester at the moment is he?
  • stefrees
    stefrees Posts: 137
    katusha have just bought kolobnev out of his contract from saxo bank. pot. kettle . black?

    you cant expect the british riders not to want to join sky, especially when a lot of their coaches are going to be part of the team and they live in quaratta where sky are going to be based
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    stefrees wrote:
    katusha have just bought kolobnev out of his contract from saxo bank. pot. kettle . black?

    There's nothing wrong with buying someone out of a contract.

    When you don't turn up for meeting and discuss things behind your teams back, that's a different game.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • plectrum
    plectrum Posts: 225
    kickerbri wrote:
    Is this likely to be under orders from Team Sky?

    Totally, Sky will be giving him full advice and he will certainly start at Sky for 2010. Katusha need to grow up and arrive at the boardroom. Swift wants now to cycle for Sky, Sky want him, there is no benefit to forcing him to stay with Katusha, and the longer katusha dig heels in sand the worse it will be to find a replacement.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    plectrum wrote:

    Totally, Sky will be giving him full advice and he will certainly start at Sky for 2010. Katusha need to grow up and arrive at the boardroom. Swift wants now to cycle for Sky, Sky want him, there is no benefit to forcing him to stay with Katusha, and the longer katusha dig heels in sand the worse it will be to find a replacement.

    So Swift has a legal contract with Katusha and he's taking orders from a competing company to ignore his employers? And Katusha are at fault?

    Right............

    It's quite simple - Katusha seem to know how to do it. You speak to a rider and tell them you're interested in them. The rider speaks to his team. The team listen to the rider and decide whether to release him. If they do, they wish him well and everyone is on good terms.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    plectrum wrote:
    the longer katusha dig heels in sand the...
    ...more money they can hold out for?

    Katusha will be annoyed to lose Swift. Gazprom could do with some good publicity in Britain and above all, he is maturing into a useful rider, in someways a mini EBH. A neo-pro contract with a pro team tour is fixed at two years minimum, so Tchmil has reason to be irritated.

    The widespread poaching of riders from other teams, whilst under contract, is completely new and it's putting a lot of noses out of joint. Now we can probably look back and find examples of one or two riders and teams doing this, but Sky have turned this into a standard recruitment method. It doesn't win them any friends and dare I say it, but it's unethical.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    So which riders have they now signed up using these underhand tactics?
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Am I right in thinking that the idea behind all neo-pro contracts being for two years was that a baby pro wouldn't be burnt out by a team and then chucked on the rubbish tip at the end of their first year- they had a whole two year contract to show their worth.

    Swift is a very talented young rider who is probably heading to Sky anyway. He knew what he was doing when he signed for Katusha, and so did Sky- is there any harm in letting him stay with Katusha for another year?

    What worries me is that it may set a precedent for the standard two year neo-pro contract to be broken to favour teams rather than neo-pros.
  • stagehopper
    stagehopper Posts: 1,593
    iainf72 wrote:
    It's quite simple - Katusha seem to know how to do it. You speak to a rider and tell them you're interested in them. The rider speaks to his team. The team listen to the rider and decide whether to release him. If they do, they wish him well and everyone is on good terms.

    Because we know that's how the Kolobnev situation worked?
    Kléber wrote:
    The widespread poaching of riders from other teams, whilst under contract, is completely new and it's putting a lot of noses out of joint. Now we can probably look back and find examples of one or two riders and teams doing this, but Sky have turned this into a standard recruitment method. It doesn't win them any friends and dare I say it, but it's unethical.

    At the moment they seem to be one of the only teams in the Pro Tour peleton who haven't bought someone out of a contract, or provided the means for the rider to do it themselves ;)
    @stagehopper
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    stagehopper wrote:

    Because we know that's how the Kolobnev situation worked?

    We've got a slight idea.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kolobne ... year-early
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • stagehopper
    stagehopper Posts: 1,593
    My point though iain is we don't know the specifics of when contact was made, how much tapping up had been done, financial incentives for the move to take place etc
    @stagehopper
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    stagehopper wrote:
    My point though iain is we don't know the specifics of when contact was made, how much tapping up had been done, financial incentives for the move to take place etc

    Agreed but at the same time we didn't have anyone complaining publically about it.

    So far Brailsford has managed to get a letter from Bob Stapletons lawyers, upset Katusha and have the whole massive saga of Wiggins play out with not much fact.

    With Kolobnev we heard he might be switching teams and then a press release he's leaving and all quite nice about it.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    You can understand a young British lad wanting to ride in a British team with his friends rather than a Russian outfit. That being said, there are still correct and respectable ways to conduct oneself.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    iainf72 wrote:
    stagehopper wrote:
    My point though iain is we don't know the specifics of when contact was made, how much tapping up had been done, financial incentives for the move to take place etc

    Agreed but at the same time we didn't have anyone complaining publically about it.

    So far Brailsford has managed to get a letter from Bob Stapletons lawyers, upset Katusha and have the whole massive saga of Wiggins play out with not much fact.

    With Kolobnev we heard he might be switching teams and then a press release he's leaving and all quite nice about it.

    I''d have thought Brailsford would've gone up in your estimation after that!
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ben-swi ... ha-in-2010

    Hmmmm.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • kickerbri
    kickerbri Posts: 53
    iainf72 wrote:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ben-swift-to-stay-with-katusha-in-2010

    Hmmmm.

    I dont think that will put Team Sky off if they want Swift enough. I still think that Sky will be lining up next season with Swift and Wiggins in there squad.
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    This reflects more on Katusha for me. Same with any of you guys in a job, you have a contract but if that employer hasn't really made it a pleasent place for you to be, treated you with the kind of respect you would like then why would you feel any loyalty to them.

    I am not saying I know if he has or hasn't been treated well just saying people say you have to be loyal to contracts as a given where as for me loyalty is earnt by respect from both parties. When that turns sour loyalty goes out of the window, contract or not when you want out sometimes it's healthier that happens for the team and for you.

    I reckon 99% of you in the same situation as those you criticise would do exactly the same sorts of things so step down out of the ivory towers.

    Second to all this is the fact this story is all press release fodder from Katusha and taints a rider which is hardly professional either. I don't really buy one sided stories like this and make judgements.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    Are you sure? Sounds like you've made all sorts of judgements in your posting above about what Katusha may be like as an employer based on no evidence whatsoever.
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    YEs I am sure so that's either my bad on how I wrote the post or your bad on how you interpretted it. Either way gotta be locked down tighter than a politician's statement when you go against the grain round these parts it would seem.

    I brought up general comments on working for places and loyalty and fact that the way the story is written is pure Press Release. Motivation for them to make that press release? Spur Swift into a response? Save their own public image? seems a messy one for me.

    Be interesting to hear all sides before saying either is in the right or wrong. May turn out swifty boy is just childish and unprofessional and Sky team are the big bad wolves of the cycling world. I am sure with we will find out one day, be far more entertaining though when it's not off season and the stories are about races.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    There's no comment from Swift in the article.

    Clearly once you get the call from Sky you might not want to hang around in a foreign team but it's not too bad for Swift. He can train hard and up his value, if he wins in 2010 then he'll command better pay when he eventually moves to Sky.

    Either way Swift is a real talent and the Russians will fight hard to keep him, or at least to extract a big compensation cheque if he's poached away. As for not being supported in the team, Pozzato was leading him out in the Tour of Britain. To get the most vain man in pro cycling, who also happens to be a fortissimo sprinter, to work for you is surely the definition of team work?
  • dulldave
    dulldave Posts: 949
    andyp wrote:
    Are you sure? Sounds like you've made all sorts of judgements in your posting above about what Katusha may be like as an employer based on no evidence whatsoever.

    I have to agree. There's no evidence that Katusha have been mistreating Swift. In fact, what we do know about the relationship would suggest that it has been a good one up to this point.

    Teams don't tend to work for a rider to win a stage of their home tour when they're mistreating them. Fair enough, there's no need to bang on about Pozzato braking to allow Swift a stage win. But I think the guy is quite rightly annoyed about the lack of professional respect that the team is being shown.

    Sky are going down in my estimations before they've even begun and until I hear of any justifiable reason for him to behave in this way, so is Swift.

    If it were a French rider doing this to a British team, a few people on here might have more of an issue with it.
    Scottish and British...and a bit French

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